Stagecoach North West Discussion

[ste898]

Well in Carlisle today we have gone back 2 years

Its really sad not seeing the Reays buses about as they were a welcome sight in Carlisle and certainly make Stagecoach raise their game (the drivers had to smil I bet they hated having too)

Now how long before stagecoach hike the fares up I give it a month

At least people travelling to the lakes now have a option of a 12 or 62 reg reays bus instead of the clapped out old wrecks that stagecoach run

 

[mbonwick]

How exactly did Stagecoach raise their game? I don't recall any Citi services undergoing timetable changes or anything....

It'll be well more than a month before the prices go up (group-wide April rise apart).

Not sure how 61 plate Scania E400s (service 555) are clapped out wrecks, nor 55 plate Tridents. Please do enlighten us.

Also, do Reay's have Wifi and 'proper' seats on their main routes? Thought not....

 

[ste898]

How exactly did Stagecoach raise their game? I don't recall any Citi services undergoing timetable changes or anything....

It'll be well more than a month before the prices go up (group-wide April rise apart).

Not sure how 61 plate Scania E400s (service 555) are clapped out wrecks, nor 55 plate Tridents. Please do enlighten us.

Also, do Reay's have Wifi and 'proper' seats on their main routes? Thought not....

Is that the 55 Plate tridents from Manchester that have been to the moon and back and then dumped in cumbria with the S and T reg single deckers

Stagecoach certainly do not have wifi on their main routes and the seats are well past it

At least reays buses were clean modern and friendly

 

[robertclark125]

and empty, if they had to withdraw routes that underperformed.

 

[mbonwick]

The Tridents may have covered some serious milage, but its amazing what recon engines, recovered seats and some paint can do...

Pretty sure last time I was on the 555 it had Wifi, and I'd say that is the major route through the Lakes.

Recent evidence disagrees with your points that Reays are clean and/or friendly...never mind, keep trying with the trolling :P

 

[ste898]

The Tridents may have covered some serious milage, but its amazing what recon engines, recovered seats and some paint can do...

Pretty sure last time I was on the 555 it had Wifi, and I'd say that is the major route through the Lakes.

Recent evidence disagrees with your points that Reays are clean and/or friendly...never mind, keep trying with the trolling :P

where is the trolling?

I think you mean opinion?

 

[mbonwick]

No, to have an opinion you actually have to read what other people write, and respond to their questions

 

[ste898]

No, to have an opinion you actually have to read what other people write, and respond to their questions

Yes I was responding to your post which I read

 

[robertclark125]

STE898, maybe you can tell us, if Reays were providing such a better level of service, why was that not matched by passenger demand sufficent to keep the routes going in Carlisle that Reays have axed? Furthermore, if the answer is "coz Stagecoach lowered their fares below Reays", then that was what competition was supposed to bring. It's interesting to record Reay's complain that they're withdrawing as their routes are under pressure from Stagecoach, but they didn't complain when they had cheaper fares than Stagecoach.

 

[Paul Mcgill]

The Tridents may have covered some serious milage, but its amazing what recon engines, recovered seats and some paint can do...

Pretty sure last time I was on the 555 it had Wifi, and I'd say that is the major route through the Lakes.

Recent evidence disagrees with your points that Reays are clean and/or friendly...never mind, keep trying with the trolling :P

The 55 Tridents are low milage compered to others fleet buses only having a average of 300,000 miles and thats low for a 7 year old bus. The 17xxx tridents working out of Kendal in the lakes are the best I have driven well looked after and only working mainly 6 month a year.

555 Scania's dont have WiFi.

 

[mbonwick]

Must've been picking it up from a 2A somewhere around Lancaster Bus station then, I didn't check in the more rural settings!

 

[madannie77]

STE898, maybe you can tell us, if Reays were providing such a better level of service, why was that not matched by passenger demand sufficent to keep the routes going in Carlisle that Reays have axed? Furthermore, if the answer is "coz Stagecoach lowered their fares below Reays", then that was what competition was supposed to bring. It's interesting to record Reay's complain that they're withdrawing as their routes are under pressure from Stagecoach, but they didn't complain when they had cheaper fares than Stagecoach.

From my observations I would think that one of Reays problems was that their fares were too low. Loadings could be very good at times but abysmal at other times (certainly on my local route) but the majority of passengers were not fare paying.

As an occasional user (I work 2 days a week) I usually used a Reays 12 journey for £8 Megahopper, which works out at 67p per journey - hardly sustainable in the current day, I would have thought. The alternative is a Stagecoach Dayrider, currently £2.60 (and never, if I recall correctly, less than £2.00). Reays weekly ticket was £6, a lot cheaper than Stagecoach (for a less comprehensive network) but probably also too cheap.

I don't recall any pressure from Stagecoach other than an occasional reduction in DayRider cost to £2.00. No major timetable adjustments, no increased frequencies in the last two and a half years.

I have heard many people in Carlisle comment on how they prefer Reays to Stagecoach for various reasons, but goodwill is not enough to sustain a business if the business plan is flawed. Running a lot of new/almost new buses with seemingly unrealistically low fares is not a recipe for success.

 

[jazz 1]

From my observations I would think that one of Reays problems was that their fares were too low. Loadings could be very good at times but abysmal at other times (certainly on my local route) but the majority of passengers were not fare paying.

As an occasional user (I work 2 days a week) I usually used a Reays 12 journey for £8 Megahopper, which works out at 67p per journey - hardly sustainable in the current day, I would have thought. The alternative is a Stagecoach Dayrider, currently £2.60 (and never, if I recall correctly, less than £2.00). Reays weekly ticket was £6, a lot cheaper than Stagecoach (for a less comprehensive network) but probably also too cheap.

I don't recall any pressure from Stagecoach other than an occasional reduction in DayRider cost to £2.00. No major timetable adjustments, no increased frequencies in the last two and a half years.

I have heard many people in Carlisle comment on how they prefer Reays to Stagecoach for various reasons, but goodwill is not enough to sustain a business if the business plan is flawed. Running a lot of new/almost new buses with seemingly unrealistically low fares is not a recipe for success.

From what i was told and was also on a face book page the fares were high on single fares so when the free passes were used there was a good return for Reays. Are Reays open tops new buses this year if they are 61 plate in the lakes.

It is a shame Reays have left Carlisle for now as they did seem to keep Stagecoach on there toes, but they did seem to be doing what they want and running to there own timetables. Shame

 

[TBSchenker]

Stagecoach Wigan Wright Eclipse 21248 (ex first 69140 ) seen today looking smart in Stagecoach livery.

 

[Dallamlad]

18279 looking better then it ever did up here lol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kjs251/8522227210/in/photostream

 

[robertclark125]

From my observations I would think that one of Reays problems was that their fares were too low. Loadings could be very good at times but abysmal at other times (certainly on my local route) but the majority of passengers were not fare paying.

As an occasional user (I work 2 days a week) I usually used a Reays 12 journey for £8 Megahopper, which works out at 67p per journey - hardly sustainable in the current day, I would have thought. The alternative is a Stagecoach Dayrider, currently £2.60 (and never, if I recall correctly, less than £2.00). Reays weekly ticket was £6, a lot cheaper than Stagecoach (for a less comprehensive network) but probably also too cheap.

I don't recall any pressure from Stagecoach other than an occasional reduction in DayRider cost to £2.00. No major timetable adjustments, no increased frequencies in the last two and a half years.

I have heard many people in Carlisle comment on how they prefer Reays to Stagecoach for various reasons, but goodwill is not enough to sustain a business if the business plan is flawed. Running a lot of new/almost new buses with seemingly unrealistically low fares is not a recipe for success.

That was the same issue that affected the supermarket chain Shoprite, in the early 1990s. That firm paid £millions for sites in Scotland (and Berwick upon Tweed), and thoguht that low prices and low margins would be an overnight success. Shoprite made two mistakes.

1 - They had prices low, yes, but too low, so that when, suddenly there was an increase in rates, they were also suddenly struggling to find the money to pay the loans for the sites.

2 - They underestimated the competition. A classic thing in business, many firms have done this. Reays underestimated what stagecoach would do, namely dropping the price of a dayrider to £2. Shoprite underestimated the aggressive strategy both Sainsburys and tesco would follow, specifically targeting Shoprite.

In the case of Shoprite, they sold their UK mainland operations to Kwik Save, and the Shoprite Discount Foods name has never been seen again.

 

[KendalKing]

I'd also add to mbonwicks comment, namely that if Reays were supposed to have had 30'000 passengers a week using the Cityhopper services, then how on earth did it reach the stage they had to withdraw some routes?

I very much doubt that all four operators (Arriva, First, Reays & Stagecoach) carry 30,000 passengers between them.

How exactly did Stagecoach raise their game? I don't recall any Citi services undergoing timetable changes or anything....

It'll be well more than a month before the prices go up (group-wide April rise apart).

Not sure how 61 plate Scania E400s (service 555) are clapped out wrecks, nor 55 plate Tridents. Please do enlighten us.

Also, do Reay's have Wifi and 'proper' seats on their main routes? Thought not....

The only Stagecoach buses in the area, that I am aware of having WiFi are based at Morecambe.

From my observations I would think that one of Reays problems was that their fares were too low. Loadings could be very good at times but abysmal at other times (certainly on my local route) but the majority of passengers were not fare paying.

Thats the biggest problem for most operators, since the last Labour goverment, and remember, it was the Labour goverment, that introduced free travel for the over 60's. A number of profitable routes, started lossing money, which had lead to a number of operators going out of business, this is what happen at Princess Coaches, were I was the Transport Manager.

 

[Dallamlad]

I very much doubt that all four operators (Arriva, First, Reays & Stagecoach) carry 30,000 passengers between them.



The only Stagecoach buses in the area, that I am aware of having WiFi are based at Morecambe.



Thats the biggest problem for most operators, since the last Labour goverment, and remember, it was the Labour goverment, that introduced free travel for the over 60's. A number of profitable routes, started lossing money, which had lead to a number of operators going out of business, this is what happen at Princess Coaches, were I was the Transport Manager.

Yeah we should get rid of free over 60 travel, not like old folk have a lot to pay for or anything, robbing pensioners coming over here stealing our bus seats.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Not free though, is it? No such thing as a free lunch...... The fare just comes from somewhere else

 

[Dallamlad]

Indeed.

 

[stagecoachuk]

I very much doubt that all four operators (Arriva, First, Reays & Stagecoach) carry 30,000 passengers between them.



The only Stagecoach buses in the area, that I am aware of having WiFi are based at Morecambe.

.

The Lillyhall motors on service 300 also have wi-fi.

Reays once again rose to the occasion today and were suing 2 Enviro 200s on the 555R with that useless timetable of theirs.

12286 has been towed to Kendal from Lillyhall.

 

[Mattdw92]

Reays once again rose to the occasion today and were suing 2 Enviro 200s on the 555R with that useless timetable of theirs.

After they confirmed that it would be the open-toppers this weekend too........ :roll:

 

[jazz 1]

From what i was told and was also on a face book page the fares were high on single fares so when the free passes were used there was a good return for Reays. Are Reays open tops new buses this year if they are 61 plate in the lakes.

It is a shame Reays have left Carlisle for now as they did seem to keep Stagecoach on there toes, but they did seem to be doing what they want and running to there own timetables. Shame

Was the £2.00 Dayrider not a Sale for 2 months

 

[jazz 1]

The Lillyhall motors on service 300 also have wi-fi.

Reays once again rose to the occasion today and were suing 2 Enviro 200s on the 555R with that useless timetable of theirs.

12286 has been towed to Kendal from Lillyhall.

Thought these were ment to be open top buses

 

[ste898]

The Lillyhall motors on service 300 also have wi-fi.

Reays once again rose to the occasion today and were suing 2 Enviro 200s on the 555R with that useless timetable of theirs.

12286 has been towed to Kendal from Lillyhall.

And how is the timetable useless?

Perhaps just because you have a dislike for Reays being a stagecoach boy

 

[robertclark125]

Maybe the weather wasn't up for the open toppers?

 

[mbonwick]

Well it's difficult to understand with so many different variations on different days for starters.

The really odd frequencies don't help either, nor does the non appearance of the promised Open Topper (and I can definitely say weather wasn't a problem!)

 

[CumbrianJosh]

Maybe the weather wasn't up for the open toppers?

it would have been a superb day for Reays to have the open toppers out!
Stagecoach's open toppers were very busy all day! Not many people on the Reays Enviros..

 

[madannie77]

And how is the timetable useless?

The timetable is useless for many people due to the service being irregular and with all the schoolday/non schoolday variations. The same applies to the 300R/302R timetable. The rather more frequent Stagecoach services are obviously going to be more attractive to most passengers.

Another thing to note is the availability of fare information. For a visitor to the area how easy is it to find out, in advance, the potential cost of a day trip by Stagecoach compared to Reays?

There is a thread on this forum about Reays, although not a lot happens on there:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68883&highlight=Reays

Perhaps just because you have a dislike for Reays being a stagecoach boy

Is it surprising that someone employed by Stagecoach might have a dislike of a company operating in competition?

As this thread is entitled Stagecoach NW fleet changes perhaps it is unsurprising that there could be a general bias against other operators. There might also be a sense of schadenfreude amongst some that Reays, despite the big claims before and during the CityHopper venture, have had to admit defeat in Carlisle and return to the more rural operations which was their original niche.

As an enthusiast I rather enjoyed the Reays episode in Carlisle as it provided some additional interest. As a passenger I benefitted from Reays cheap mutli-journey ticket as it suited my working patterns. As an interested observer it amazed me that the CityHopper services lasted as long as they did.

 

[Dave The Bus]

Stagecoach Wigan Wright Eclipse 21248 (ex first 69140 ) seen today looking smart in Stagecoach livery.

As it happens, i got a few pictures of this the other day..

http://imageshack.us/a/img835/4795/img2013032600065.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img24/9468/img2013032600064.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img29/1739/img2013032600063.jpg