Stagecoach North West Discussion

[mbonwick]

80022 is an ADL demo covering warranty work to E400Hs. The MANs parked up are withdrawn examples I believe.

 

[Ernie]

Hi
Noticed 33460 was at Willowholme Carlisle this afternoon, also as I walk to Caldewgate 28666 passed heading west it could also have been going to Willowholme but not certain. Anyone have information on these two vehicles.
Regards
Ernie

 

[Class20]

Former Manchester based Enviro400 19070 MX56FTC in service at Preston today, working to Blackpool on 68s. I do believe another should be around but not yet seen.

 

[KendalKing]

No doubt service 3D, will be re-instated.

Torrisholme Road/Lancaster Road will be closed completely to vehicle traffic from 8am Monday 7th April to 6am Thursday 10th April; between Russell drive and 179 Torrisholme Road (by Lancaster & Morecambe College entrance).

 

[cainebj]

Hi
Noticed 33460 was at Willowholme Carlisle this afternoon, also as I walk to Caldewgate 28666 passed heading west it could also have been going to Willowholme but not certain. Anyone have information on these two vehicles.
Regards
Ernie

28666 was covering a breakdown on X75, it'll have been going to Willowholme or Devonshire Walk to wait for the return journey to Stranraer.
33460 is a recent transfer from Midlands, with 33397 at Morecambe, 33911 at Morecambe for Lillyhall and 34119 at Kendal. 33460 is being used on the staff shuttle runs at Penrith. I don't think any others have been used yet.

 

[KendalKing]

28666 was covering a breakdown on X75, it'll have been going to Willowholme or Devonshire Walk to wait for the return journey to Stranraer.
33460 is a recent transfer from Midlands, with 33397 at Morecambe, 33911 at Morecambe for Lillyhall and 34119 at Kendal. 33460 is being used on the staff shuttle runs at Penrith. I don't think any others have been used yet.

33397 was used yesterday for staff shuttles between Morecambe depot and Carnforth Railway Station.

 

[mbonwick]

33397 was used yesterday for staff shuttles between Morecambe depot and Carnforth Railway Station.

Since when/how long have Morecambe been doing driver changes at Carnforth for?

 

[KendalKing]

Since when/how long have Morecambe been doing driver changes at Carnforth for?

Since they started doing a daytime, Carnforth - Silverdale service. (the former Carnforth Connect Service, previously operated by KLCH)

 

[TheHovisKid]

Since they started doing a daytime, Carnforth - Silverdale service. (the former Carnforth Connect Service, previously operated by KLCH)

Would it not be cheaper for them to.....ummm.... get the bus? Even if it meant hanging around for half an hour in Carnforth, that has to be cheaper than sending an otherwise empty bus up and down?

 

[Stan Drews]

Would it not be cheaper for them to.....ummm.... get the bus? Even if it meant hanging around for half an hour in Carnforth, that has to be cheaper than sending an otherwise empty bus up and down?

Considering it's not very far, then no, it's probably cheaper to use a shuttle bus, than pay the additional travelling time that would be required for the drivers to sit on the cushions.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Considering it's not very far, then no, it's probably cheaper to use a shuttle bus, than pay the additional travelling time that would be required for the drivers to sit on the cushions.

Hmmm. Service 5 is hourly during the day, so:

• Ball Park, what's a drivers hourly pay
• What's the cost/mile for running a bus dead for 13 miles round trip
• Is there not a more economical vehicle to use?

Not saying you're wrong, just curious as to how the figures stand up, given that Stagecoach can currently run an empty bus up and down as a staff taxi in the middle of the day, yet receive funding from LCC to run buses with fare paying passengers on at other times.

 

[cainebj]

33911 pitched up at Lillyhall late last week and made it out into service on Moorclose Circular 51 on Friday afternoon. It spent Saturday on short X5 and yesterday on Moorclose Circular 50.
Stagecoach took over operation of the Workington - Cockermouth 36 yesterday from Reays, 33911 has released a Solo for use on that service.

Fare changes from 14th April 2014:

Barrow
Barrow dayrider £3.00, reduced from £3.20
Barrow dayrider plus (adult) £6.50, increased from £6.30
Ulverston dayrider £2.90, no change.

Barrow megarider (adult) £10.00, increase from £9.70
Barrow megarider plus £20.50, increase from £20
Ulverston megarider £8.50, no change

6 Routerider Barrow to Dalton £15.00, increase from £14.60.

Carlisle & Keswick
Carlisle dayrider (adult) £2.90, increase from £2.75
Carlisle weekend and school holiday dayrider (child) £1.30, increase from £1.20
Carlisle dayrider (group) £6.20, increase from £6
Carlisle dayrider plus £6.70, increase from £6.60.
Carlisle dayrider plus (group) £9.90, increase from £9.50

Carlisle megarider £10.90, increase from £10.60
Carlisle megarider plus £22.50, increase from £22.

[Carlisle Plus zone extended to include Aspatria and Crosby on Gold300]

Honister & Borrowdale adult dayrider £8.00, increase from £7
Honister & Borrowdale child dayrider £6.00, increase from £5
[Zone extended to include Bassenthwaite, Threlkeld and Thirlmere]

Kendal & Lakes
Kendal Town dayrider (adult) £2.50, increase from £2.40
Kendal Town dayrider (child) £1.30, increase from £1.20
Kendal Town dayrider (group) £5.50

Central Lakes dayrider (adult) £8.00, increase from £7
Central Lakes dayrider (child and concessions) £6.00, increase from £5.50
Central Lakes dayrider (family) £20.00, increase from £19
Central Lakes dayrider (group) £22.00, no change.

Kendal Town Megarider £9.40, increase from £9.

Morecambe & Lancaster
Bay dayrider (adult) £4.75, increase from £4.60
Bay dayrider (group) £9.90, increase from £9.50
Bay dayrider plus £6.70, increase from £6.50

Bay megarider £14.20, increase from £13.80
Bay megarider plus £20.00, increase from £19.40.

West Cumbria
Whitehaven or Workington dayrider £3.00, increase from £2.90
West Cumbria dayrider plus (adult) £4.90, increase from £4.80
West Cumbria dayrider plus (group) £11.00, increase from £10.70
300/301 Family Return £15.00

Whitehaven or Workington megarider £10.30, increase from £10
West Cumbria megarider plus £17.30, increase from £16.80


Explorer
1 day Explorer (adult) £10.50, increase from £10.30
1 day Explorer (child) £7.50, increase from £7
1 day Explorer (concessions) £7.50, increase from £7
1 day Explorer (family) £25.00, increase from £23
1 day Explorer (group) £30.00, no change.

North West megarider gold 7 day £26.70, increase from £26.

28 day, 13 week, 52 week and pay monthly Xtra ticket prices are frozen.

 

[KendalKing]

Would it not be cheaper for them to.....ummm.... get the bus? Even if it meant hanging around for half an hour in Carnforth, that has to be cheaper than sending an otherwise empty bus up and down?

An hour, might be bit near.

Hmmm. Service 5 is hourly during the day

True, but the bus to Silverdale, normally departs from Carnforth before the bus from Morecambe arrives.

 

[mbonwick]

Or if it's not practical to send drivers on the regular service, use a van maybe? Got to be lighter on fuel than a bus!

 

[TheHovisKid]

Or if it's not practical to send drivers on the regular service, use a van maybe? Got to be lighter on fuel than a bus!

I'd have thought that an hour of a drivers time hanging around would be cheaper than a bus too.

Of course, you could combine this with this instead..

 

[Stan Drews]

I'd have thought that an hour of a drivers time hanging around would be cheaper than a bus too.

Of course, you could combine this with this instead..

Not quite sure what the local pay rates are, but if you're talking about 2 drivers having at least 30mins, but probably nearer an hour added to the duty payments, then that's likely to cost around £20. Fuel cost for a bus doing a 13 mile round trip would be around £10, so even allowing for the added wear and tear, the shuttle bus option is likely to offer a significant cost benefit.
If it's just a one off shuttle trip, then the fuel savings of using a van, aren't likely to be sufficient to justify the leasing costs.
Therefore it sounds like SCNL are utilising the most cost effective method of getting the drivers to/from this contract.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Fuel cost for a bus doing a 13 mile round trip would be around £10

Heck of a profit in this bus malarkey then! Who needs subsidies, eh?

 

[Stan Drews]

Heck of a profit in this bus malarkey then! Who needs subsidies, eh?

How much did you think a couple of gallons of fuel would cost a major bus operator?
Fuel costs are only a fraction of the overall operating costs, so numerous other factors would have to be taken into consideration in any analysis of bus service profitability!
Also the vast majority of bus services aren't subsidised!!

 

[TheHovisKid]

How much did you think a couple of gallons of fuel would cost a major bus operator?
Fuel costs are only a fraction of the overall operating costs, so numerous other factors would have to be taken into consideration in any analysis of bus service profitability!
Also the vast majority of bus services aren't subsidised!!

No, I know they aren't :roll: I was merely wondering if they need to be.

The fuel cost was your argument for why it's not too expensive to run a bus up and down empty on a route where service buses run simply as a taxi. Now that you mention that

Fuel costs are only a fraction of the overall operating costs

then surely running an empty bus up and down for fun looks even less economic? In any case, a driver arriving on a service bus and then sitting on his arse waiting for a crew change isn't costing you more that his wages- no extra fuel, no wear and tear, no mileage.

 

[Stan Drews]

No, I know they aren't :roll: I was merely wondering if they need to be.

The fuel cost was your argument for why it's not too expensive to run a bus up and down empty on a route where service buses run simply as a taxi. Now that you mention that then surely running an empty bus up and down for fun looks even less economic? In any case, a driver arriving on a service bus and then sitting on his arse waiting for a crew change isn't costing you more that his wages- no extra fuel, no wear and tear, no mileage.

Sorry, I thought we'd already established that the shuttle bus option would be considerably cheaper than paying the drivers to travel up and down on the service bus, so not sure why you're still banging on about it.
Can't you just accept the fact, and move on???
(I will be, so don't expect anything further from me on the subject!)

 

[Ado 16]

I'm sure I remember back in the good ole' Nationalised seventies Buses that were travelling "To the Depot" or even to a Bus Station to start service would still pick up passengers. Because however small, any passenger was a paying passenger.

Can only assume that doesn't happen now because of 'Elf and Safety or Insurance purposes? Guessing that a bus isn't insured for passengers unless it's "In Service"??? (I have no idea).

Anyway - one of these days I really want to find out how to get to the Village of Notinservice (Perhaps it's near Knott End) I see so many buses going there that it must be really popular!

 

[TheHovisKid]

Sorry, I thought we'd already established that the shuttle bus option would be considerably cheaper than paying the drivers to travel up and down on the service bus, so not sure why you're still banging on about it.
Can't you just accept the fact, and move on???
(I will be, so don't expect anything further from me on the subject!)

I wasn't aware that we had established anything, but as you've taken your bat home, it looks like discussion on the matter on your part will indeed have to cease. Bye now! And careful not to trip over that pet lip!

Anyhow, for a driver's wages versus a 13 mile round trip on a bus with fuel and the "numerous other factors" (which may be what?) referred to: I'd be interested to know what that would be even if it's a ball-park figure.
Do bus companies have a pence-per-mile figure in consideration of wear and tear and maintenance? Does it differ between vehicles (so, if a saloon is cheaper, does that mean that the 3/4 in Lancaster are cheaper to run than the 2/2a but may make less profit as they carry less)?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Without wanting to take this debate much further, an X First driver told me recently that they get some kind of subsidy for dead milage meaning its sometimes cheeper to do this than run in service or use another vehiclep.

Back to topic, what O/T's are running in the lakes this year, any Atlantians or Olies left or is it all the recently deroofed Tridants?↲

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Without wanting to take this debate much further, an X First driver told me recently that they get some kind of subsidy for dead milage meaning its sometimes cheeper to do this than run in service or use another vehiclep.

Back to topic, what O/T's are running in the lakes this year, any Atlantians or Olies left or is it all the recently deroofed Tridants?↲

Backing this up, First Glasgow do this. Instead of running dead back to the depot, they run it in service to claim the fuel duty back from the Scottish Government...

 

[Volvodart]

Stagecoach Bluebird also have registered depot journeys for this reason.

 

[driver9000]

Would it not be cheaper for them to.....ummm.... get the bus? Even if it meant hanging around for half an hour in Carnforth, that has to be cheaper than sending an otherwise empty bus up and down?

Lancaster has always used empty buses for its driver change overs where a bus stays in service, occasionally the pick up van or "Infobus" was used. We used to take Titan deckers from the garage on White Lund to Westgate for the service 6 changeovers although a few 6A journeys changed over in the depot. There is a near continual flow of buses running as staff shuttles between Lancaster bus station and the depot - the joy of having the depot and the main hub completely detached from each other. Having Drivers using a normal service bus to Carnforth from Morecambe depot would be totally impractical as it would require them to use two buses that don't connect a 5 from Carnforth and a 6/6A to Westgate/White Lund and extending their working day with travelling passenger would limit the actual work they could do too. It's a similar situation with travelling to Lancaster, an hourly 6A passing near the depot or a 10 minute walk to/from the Shrimp. Given the amount of money Drivers take (and knowing how much I was taking 10 years ago!) I'd rather travel on a private staff only bus than travel by service bus or walk through the streets. Sorry to bring this up from a few days ago but I just wanted to add my insight into the situation from the days I drove.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Without wanting to take this debate much further, an X First driver told me recently that they get some kind of subsidy for dead milage meaning its sometimes cheeper to do this than run in service or use another vehiclep.

As I recall bus companies can claim fuel duty for a bus travelling Dead i.e. to and from a service but they can't claim fuel duty for a staff shuttle. The running sheets in Lancaster would show 'LITE' when running as a staff shuttle bus to differentiate between the two different types of empty running. No buses were registered to start or terminate at the depot.

 

[TheHovisKid]

Lancaster has always used empty buses for its driver change overs where a bus stays in service, occasionally the pick up van or "Infobus" was used. We used to take Titan deckers from the garage on White Lund to Westgate for the service 6 changeovers although a few 6A journeys changed over in the depot. There is a near continual flow of buses running as staff shuttles between Lancaster bus station and the depot - the joy of having the depot and the main hub completely detached from each other. Having Drivers using a normal service bus to Carnforth from Morecambe depot would be totally impractical as it would require them to use two buses that don't connect a 5 from Carnforth and a 6/6A to Westgate/White Lund and extending their working day with travelling passenger would limit the actual work they could do too. It's a similar situation with travelling to Lancaster, an hourly 6A passing near the depot or a 10 minute walk to/from the Shrimp. Given the amount of money Drivers take (and knowing how much I was taking 10 years ago!) I'd rather travel on a private staff only bus than travel by service bus or walk through the streets. Sorry to bring this up from a few days ago but I just wanted to add my insight into the situation from the days I drove.

Good point about carrying the money around- hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

On another tack, had the joys of 22595 again today. I'm starting to dread it hoving into view. Isn't the back seat high though?

After nearly heading (literally) into the bus station, we sat for a while on the apron with button-pressing noises coming from the cab and stopping and starting of the engine. It seems to like doing that lately (is it used as a punishment for drivers?)- is it a common fault with those things?
I also noticed a notice in the cab saying "Do Not USB"- what's that about?

 

[darrenw29]

One of LLs Profiles was involved in a serious rta near Embleton on tuesday. Car driver flown to hospital. Not sure which one but the front looks quite bad.

 

[Paul Mcgill]

Good point about carrying the money around- hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

On another tack, had the joys of 22595 again today. I'm starting to dread it hoving into view. Isn't the back seat high though?

After nearly heading (literally) into the bus station, we sat for a while on the apron with button-pressing noises coming from the cab and stopping and starting of the engine. It seems to like doing that lately (is it used as a punishment for drivers?)- is it a common fault with those things?
I also noticed a notice in the cab saying "Do Not USB"- what's that about?[/QUO

With 22595 its just some driver trying to put it straight through the gears from reverse to drive but it wont work. With it you need to stop hand brake on select neutral wait a second or 2 then select drive and you off. Just drivers trying to rush gear changes!!!

 

[Blindtraveler]

One of LLs Profiles was involved in a serious rta near Embleton on tuesday. Car driver flown to hospital. Not sure which one but the front looks quite bad.

Ouch. Hope driver makes a ful recovery. A profile of the road coming up to Easter certainly isnt helpful. What generally deputizes on Transcumbria?