Stagecoach West Scotland

[ClydeCoaster]

Spotted a new ADL Enviro400EV on the M77 southbound this afternoon. In heavy rain but I'm sure it was on trade plates and was in the 2020 Local livery.

I know EVs are due for the 11 but I thought they were a few months off yet?

 

[Scotrail88]

They have been seen in Kilmarnock and Irvine for driver familiarisation.

Is it just the 11 or the 25 aswell?

Would be good to see them on X36 on Sundays and if any good for motorway work.

Any ideas when due to enter service?

 

[aswilliamsuk]

They have been seen in Kilmarnock and Irvine for driver familiarisation.

Is it just the 11 or the 25 aswell?

Would be good to see them on X36 on Sundays and if any good for motorway work.

Any ideas when due to enter service?

Not sure about the 25, but I'm pretty sure there were some for the 18 too.

Believe there's 26 in total (80185-80210 by the looks of things - Chesterfield's end at 80184, and East Scotland's appear to begin at 80211) so it's definitely for more than just the 11.

 

[ClydeCoaster]

I'm amazed they stick deckers on the 18 given the loadings during the day. It would barely fill a Solo these days. Is it just easier to have them on all day to keep with the school loadings?

 

[scotrail170434]

They have been seen in Kilmarnock and Irvine for driver familiarisation.

Is it just the 11 or the 25 aswell?

Would be good to see them on X36 on Sundays and if any good for motorway work.

Any ideas when due to enter service?

I believe Ardrossan are getting 12. 10 in use daily along with 2 as spare/garage work. The MMCs from Ardrossan at the moment are destined for leeds but that can change. As for routes they are all meant for the eleven’s but its guaranteed that wont last long and they will end up on the 18s.A highly doubt they will be put on 25s straight away but we wont know till we see how long the batterys last. As for the x36 100% certain they wont be on that. One issue being the battery life and the 2nd being they will be limited to 38/48 I cannot remember which one. The mmcs are limited to 50 and make its very difficult to stick to timetable aswell them not enjoying constant motorway shifts

I'm amazed they stick deckers on the 18 given the loadings during the day. It would barely fill a Solo these days. Is it just easier to have them on all day to keep with the school loadings?

Your right yes they stick deckers on for the huge number of school kids that get on in the afternoon and try to always allocate an optare for backshift for obvious reasons. It always tends to be the buses that are more unreliable that are put on the 18s. For instance 513 and 948 where on it for a good while just incase they fail they are close to the depot.

 

[RELL6L]

I believe Ardrossan are getting 12. 10 in use daily along with 2 as spare/garage work. The MMCs from Ardrossan at the moment are destined for leeds but that can change. As for routes they are all meant for the eleven’s but its guaranteed that wont last long and they will end up on the 18s.A highly doubt they will be put on 25s straight away but we wont know till we see how long the batterys last. As for the x36 100% certain they wont be on that. One issue being the battery life and the 2nd being they will be limited to 38/48 I cannot remember which one. The mmcs are limited to 50 and make its very difficult to stick to timetable aswell them not enjoying constant motorway shifts

Your right yes they stick deckers on for the huge number of school kids that get on in the afternoon and try to always allocate an optare for backshift for obvious reasons. It always tends to be the buses that are more unreliable that are put on the 18s. For instance 513 and 948 where on it for a good while just incase they fail they are close to the depot.

Leeds? Something new?

 

[ClydeCoaster]

There was talk of the E400EVs being pantograph charged at Kilmarnock bus station, not having seen any additional ones being installed I'm guessing this isn't the case and they're going to be charged overnight at the depot?

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Leeds? Something new?

I suspect they are more likely for South Yorkshire than Leeds: there's still a lot of older 'deckers to replace there with Stagecoach Yorkshire.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

There was talk of the E400EVs being pantograph charged at Kilmarnock bus station, not having seen any additional ones being installed I'm guessing this isn't the case and they're going to be charged overnight at the depot?

They have the Pantograph charging pods on their roofs but seems to be still the only charging stance in Killie where the 1 departs from

 

[ClydeCoaster]

Quite a number of the E400EVs in service now, on the 11 and 9.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Quite a number of the E400EVs in service now, on the 11 and 9.

They're being used on a mixture of routes including the 10 which doesn't normally see deckers due to the E100EVs being at Alexander Dennis for warranty issues

 

[aswilliamsuk]

They're being used on a mixture of routes including the 10 which doesn't normally see deckers due to the E100EVs being at Alexander Dennis for warranty issues

That also might explain why none of the E400MMCs have been released for cascade yet, then...

 

[scosutsut]

Strike action coming:

Stagecoach bus drivers in the south and west of Scotland are set to strike in a dispute over pay.

The Unite union described the 4% offer to its 500 members - operating out of depots in Ayr, Arran, Ardrossan, Dumfries, Kilmarnock and Stranraer - as "unacceptable".

It said that despite ongoing talks with Stagecoach West Scotland there had been no improved deal offered and strike action would now take place over a string of dates in May.

The company said it was "disappointed" by the decision and urged the union to return to the negotiating table.

Strike action will take place on 2, 6, 9, 12, 16, 19 and 23 May.

Unite general secretary Sharon Graham said: "Unite's members in Stagecoach West Scotland are being forced to take strike action because of an unacceptable pay offer.

"It is a profitable company and it can easily afford to put a fairer offer on the table for its hard working drivers.

"We will fully back our members in their fight for better jobs, pay and conditions."

The union said the offer would still leave workers among the poorest paid across Stagecoach's UK operations.

Siobhan McCready, Unite industrial officer, added: "Unite's members have no option but to take strike action to get a fair pay rise.

"They are simply seeking pay parity.

"Strike action during May is set to bring bus services to a stop but the blame for any disruption lies squarely with Stagecoach."

Stagecoach said the move would "significantly impact" its customers.

"Despite our best efforts to reach an agreement and avoid industrial action, we must now focus on putting practical plans in place to support our customers during this challenging period," said a spokesperson.

"We have a crucial role in helping people stay connected with their communities, and we are working hard to minimise the impact of this disruption."

It said the pay offer would have increased hourly rates by more than 15% over two years.

It added that it came on the back of a previous two-year deal which saw basic pay increase by 13%.

Stagecoach said that it remained committed to reaching a "fair and sustainable agreement" with the drivers.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly5g717npro

Quick research on Current pay rates:

Cumbernauld - Buses - £13.13ph
Cumbernauld - Coaches - £14ph
All other depots - £13ph

Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/careers/job-search-results/west-scotland/all

So rates with +4% increase would be £13.65, £14.56 & £13.52ph respectively.

 

[Spsf3232]

Strike action coming:



Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly5g717npro

Quick research on Current pay rates:

Cumbernauld - Buses - £13.13ph
Cumbernauld - Coaches - £14ph
All other depots - £13ph

Source: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/careers/job-search-results/west-scotland/all

So rates with +4% increase would be £13.65, £14.56 & £13.52ph respectively.

They are one of the lowest paid bus companies in Scotland now. They haven't increased in line with others.

 

[scosutsut]

They are one of the lowest paid bus companies in Scotland now. They haven't increased in line with others.

The rates do seem extremely low, and won't be completely offset by the lower cost of living in some of their operating territories.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2025 ==

Things are continuing to escalate:

A union has threatened legal action against Stagecoach after it cancelled bus drivers' holiday dates during planned strikes.
Unite union members in the south and west of Scotland are set to walk out for seven days over three weeks in May in a dispute over pay.
The union said described the cancellation of holidays as a "significant escalation", and said it planned to seek a legal order banning the move.
Stagecoach said postponing annual leave was necessary due to increasing staff sickness levels and to provide "dependable services to customers".
BBC Scotland News has seen a letter sent to a Stagecoach employee informing them that two weeks of agreed holiday in May has been cancelled.
It said the leave dates would be rescheduled "at a time that can be accommodated by the operational needs of the business".
The letter also said failure to attend work could be considered gross misconduct and "may lead to disciplinary action".

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Unite's industrial officer Siobhan McCready said: "All previously agreed annual leave for drivers has been cancelled with immediate effect by Stagecoach West Scotland.
"Family holidays booked for the next few weeks will be impacted, but so will attending hospital appointments and taking family to these appointments.
"This is significant escalation taken by the company when they should be working with Unite to put a fairer pay offer on the table to resolve the dispute."

'Dependable services'​

Unite said the 4% pay offer to its 500 members - operating out of depots in Ayr, Arran, Ardrossan, Dumfries, Kilmarnock and Stranraer - was "unacceptable".
But Stagecoach said it would increase hourly rates by more than 15% over two years, following a previous two-year deal that saw basic pay increase by 13%.
Strike action is planned for 2, 6, 9, 12, 16, 19 and 23 May.
Stagecoach Scotland said drivers affected by the cancelled leave had been given "more notice than legally required".
A spokesperson said: "Due to increasing sickness levels and the importance of providing dependable services to our customers, it has been necessary to postpone holiday blocks.
"The company reserves the right to cancel leave to ensure it meets its service delivery obligations to keep the communities it serves connected."

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce92ped7pgko

 

[sannox]

Cancelling leave is a good way to send employee relations south.

 

[Volvodart]

Workers have contacted the local MSP after being informed that the company is preparing to step back from all school transport and council-subsidised routes across the region — and close both its Dumfries and Stranraer depots. Up to 130 jobs are at risk, including over 100 drivers as well as engineers, cleaners, admin staff, and depot managers.

STAGECOACH PULL-OUT WOULD ‘UTTERLY DECIMATE’ LOCAL BUS SERVICES, WARNS MSP

South Scotland MSP Colin Smyth has warned that the withdrawal of Stagecoach from Dumfries and Galloway would "utterly decimate" local bus services and leave

www.dgwgo.com

South Scotland MSP Colin Smyth has warned that the withdrawal of Stagecoach from Dumfries and Galloway would “utterly decimate” local bus services and leave communities stranded.

Although the move is not yet finalised, the threat by the company follows contract negotiations and participation in a live procurement process being run by Dumfries and Galloway Council and SWestrans regarding school transport.

Workers have told the local MSP that Stagecoach plan to continue to operate a small number of profitable commercial services, such as the X74 to Glasgow and selected Dumfries town routes — potentially running them remotely from depots in the central belt.

Colin Smyth said: “If Stagecoach go ahead with their threat to withdraw from the region, this would be devastating news for the workforce — my thoughts are with every employee now facing uncertainty about their future.
“Stagecoach’s possible exit would be a hammer blow to public transport in our region and utterly decimate local bus services.
“Having squeezed out competition over the years, Stagecoach know full well this would leave many communities cut off and pupils unable to get to school after the summer.
“To abandon local jobs and lifeline services while clinging onto the profitable routes from afar would be the height of corporate irresponsibility.
“I urge Stagecoach to think again. In the meantime, I’ve already raised this urgently with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and will be pressing the Scottish Government and the council to step in put in place alternative operators for these vital services.
“But let’s be clear — with Stagecoach running the vast majority of bus routes in the region, I do not underestimate how difficult that will be.”

A Stagecoach West Scotland (SWS) spokesperson said: “The majority of the bus services Stagecoach operates in Dumfries and Galloway are under a contract arrangement with SWestrans which is due to expire in August 2025. Dumfries and Galloway council have managed a tender process on behalf of SWestrans, which we have participated in.
“As part of our due diligence reviewing the terms of the contracts being tendered, we have identified a liability clause that is far in excess of the value of the contracts on offer. Stagecoach is unfortunately unable to agree to a contract on these disproportionate terms, and we have now notified the council. It is our understanding that our bids will not be recommended for award.
“We are now reviewing the impact of this on our local network of services and the significant number of staff we employ in the region at our Dumfries and Stranraer depots.
“Stagecoach West Scotland remains committed to keeping people in the community connected while we identify the impact of the tender process. We will provide an update on this when it is appropriate.”
Dumfries and Galloway council stated today –

“In conjunction with regional transport partnership SWestrans, Dumfries and Galloway Council is engaged in a live tender process to re-procure bus services.
SWestrans is responsible for delivery of the local bus network, while the home-to-school transport network is the statutory responsibility of Dumfries and Galloway Council.
The contracts for bus services for home-to-school transport are due to expire at the end of this academic year and the subsidised local bus network contracts operated by SWestrans will end on 3 August 2025.
There is a need to re-procure contracts to provide these services from August 2025.
As part of the tender process, the council and SWestrans need to ensure that we have bus operators that meet minimum requirements on a range of industry-standard terms and conditions. This is in order to protect the public interest.
Dumfries and Galloway Council and SWestrans continue to work through a tender process that has supporting and connecting the communities of Dumfries and Galloway firmly at its heart.
The council takes its statutory duties to provide those children entitled to school transport extremely seriously and are committed to ensuring all school transport routes are operational for the start of the school year in August, with these routes being given priority. In addition, the council and SWestrans are committed to providing a well-connected local bus network.
These long-term contracts will provide bus operators with certainty and stability in a market that is increasingly fragile and unsustainable.
The evaluation, clarification and negotiations relating to tenders received from bus operators is ongoing and confidential. With this in mind, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage.

 

[smtglasgow]

That’s unexpected – and sounds like Stagecoach are well down the road to pulling out.

I was in Newton Stewart a few weeks ago and had forgotten how much of the network was still run by Stagecoach. Not sure if there’s much that could be classed as commercial. You could run the X74 from Glasgow (although realistically that puts the depot at ‘wrong’ end of the route), but not sure how the Dumfries locals could be run from elsewhere. Is the 79 from Carlisle fully commercial? Could the old Cumberland end up running the best bits of the Dumfries locals?! If the tendering process is already underway then it doesn’t really allow a bigger player like Border Buses to step in.

Must be very worrying for the staff. Replacement operators will need staff, but the t&c’s might be even worse than Stagecoach. Are there even any local companies with the ability to replace Stagecoach if they pull out of all the tenders they currently hold?

 

[sannox]

If the tendering process is already underway then it doesn’t really allow a bigger player like Border Buses to step in.

Presumably other operators will have tendered - but might not be able to do as much.

 

[overthewater]

Isn't Route 79 operate by the Carlisle depot?

Also the headline is misleading since they are NOT pulling out of Dumfries as they will continue to operate the X7, 246 and I would say most of the town services. There are a few other operators in the area like Houston's Minicoaches, McCall's Coaches plus the council VERY OWN bus company DGC. Houstons operate the hospital shuttle, so they could easily take on other town service work.

 

[smtglasgow]

Isn't Route 79 operate by the Carlisle depot?

Yeah – it was meant a bit sarcastically. The article mentions the Dumfries locals being run remotely – how they’d manage that is beyond me. Either keep Dumfries depot or open a small outstation?

the council VERY OWN bus company DGC

I’d forgotten the council has its own bus company. It’s worked well for Highland Council (I think), so maybe they could scale up.

 

[Man of Kent]

The liability clause sounds a bit similar to the reason why they did not re-bid for the East Midlands rail franchise.

 

[RELL6L]

If Stagecoach pull out from all contracted work in this area it would leave a large void. This would probably include the Girvan to Stranraer section of the Ayr routes meaning a change would be required in Girvan.

If the council has included a liability clause that Stagecoach really find that unacceptable then they are either trying to push them out or are being silly. I can’t see the area being attractive to any of the other decent sized operators. McGills perhaps? But the liability clause may be unacceptable to all larger companies.

 

[DunsBus]

I feel sorry for the staff but the MSPs have overlooked a vital thing and one which applies to any business, not just buses. If the sums don't add up then you walk away.

 

[Stan Drews]

If Stagecoach pull out from all contracted work in this area it would leave a large void. This would probably include the Girvan to Stranraer section of the Ayr routes meaning a change would be required in Girvan.

If the council has included a liability clause that Stagecoach really find that unacceptable then they are either trying to push them out or are being silly. I can’t see the area being attractive to any of the other decent sized operators. McGills perhaps? But the liability clause may be unacceptable to all larger companies.

Unfortunately, the procurement people rule the roost when it comes to tendering now, and they know very little about running buses, so there is a growing tendency for poorly thought out tendering professes that just reduces the number of compliant bids received from interested parties.

 

[Bedford OB]

Yeah – it was meant a bit sarcastically. The article mentions the Dumfries locals being run remotely – how they’d manage that is beyond me. Either keep Dumfries depot or open a small outstation?



I’d forgotten the council has its own bus company. It’s worked well for Highland Council (I think), so maybe they could scale up.

The Council's operation is a disastrous shambles. Despite its limited size, it is beset with cancellations on an almost weekly basis due to staff or "operational" issues. If it were a commercial operator monitored properly by the Traffic Commissioner, it woud have faced any amount of disciplinary action long ago, but as it is the council it just seems to get away with it. For some time I maintained a long list of all the cuts, to services which are sparse already.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Be that as it may and it is certainly a factor. But I don't think hand on heart that many of the locals would miss Stagecoach if they went. And this does sound very much as if the council want rid of them. The area has had no meaningful investment for years and there are a good number of complaints and issues and of course with Stagecoach having its customer service functions so remote it doesn't help either. Even the supposedly viable x74 hasn't seen a new vehicle in a while now unless they've introduced some and I haven't noticed, been a while since I used it in all fairness
I have both family and friends in the area and visit regularly and a couple of people. I went to primary school with now drive for Stagecoach and have driven for others in the past or indeed do so on a freelance basis now and say that it really isn't a happy ship. So the fact that it's possibly preparing to cast off its ropes and sail the way in the long-term is maybe no bad thing, in the short term. However, this is clearly going to be painful and I feel ever so sorry for those affected

 

[overthewater]

I think your right, it does sound like the council wants rid of them and maybe hope DGC operations take over. X74 did get some new stock, those 61 plates B13R. I think there is a bigger problem at Stagecoach West Scotland, it just feels the whole area been left to rot compere to other parts of Stagecoach Scottish empire. Back in the old days in the 90s Did the X2 get new stock?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes, I knew about the 61 plates but they must be becoming in. Need a replacement now hence my comment

For what I can gather from local knowledge in other words, friends and their families, friends and partners, they would need to be quite significant fleet investment at dgc as they're running quite a lot of sheds by the sound of it, driver shortages I don't suppose would be a problem long-term as there'd be plenty of people let go by Stagecoach willing to go drive for them and of course they have the route and area knowledge already so the transition would be pretty seamless

 

[ClydeCoaster]

Three ADL Enviro200MMCs on the 4 (Ayr - Glasgow) today, Stagecoach Gold liveried 26207 (SN67XCZ) and 26209 (SN67XDB), and Distance liveried 26208 (SN67XDA). Distance liveried 26206 (SN67XCY) is at Kilmarnock depot. Given their last location was Stagecoach Midlands, I'm guessing the 4 Yutongs are off to their new home in exchange.