Stagecoach Yorkshire and Chesterfield

[TC60054]

Which seems a bit off when 'gold' seems to be phased out into 'school bus' yellow.

I understand, but could be wrong, it's to keep a uniform fleet of Gold buses now the Scania will be becoming more frequent on the X17 again.

 

[Rod Harrison]

Which seems a bit off when 'gold' seems to be phased out into 'school bus' yellow.

Doesn't sound to good but it is the first day. Did pick up a timetable in the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway ticket office today so if they are else where hopefully that will spread the word.

I haven't seen the livery but I'm guessing that it was gold overlaid with vinyls which would make the decision an easy one until they're repainted in the new livery.

 

[m79900]

I’m pleased to report that the X17 extension seems to be quite well used now!

 

[derbybusdepot]

I’m pleased to report that the X17 extension seems to be quite well used now!

The "peak sightseer" starts on 1st July, running every 30 minutes daily until end of September, then weekends until the end of the year.

The first and last 2 journeys extend from, and back to Chesterfield, with trips in between operating an hourly loop around the area from Chatsworth House.

The route is funded by the BSIP funding. Bus passes and wayfarers will not be valid, nor will £2 fares apply.

Timetable attached.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

The "peak sightseer" starts on 1st July, running every 30 minutes daily until end of September, then weekends until the end of the year.

The first and last 2 journeys extend from, and back to Chesterfield, with trips in between operating an hourly loop around the area from Chatsworth House.

The route is funded by the BSIP funding. Bus passes and wayfarers will not be valid, nor will £2 fares apply.

Timetable attached.

Interesting to see the route requires two buses but they’ve only got one open top. Slight shame but room for improvement next year …

 

[chessie]

I’m pleased to report that the X17 extension seems to be quite well used now!

Observed both the 1205/1307 X17 extensions from Matlock onwards yesterday, the 1205 didnt have a spare seat and the 1307 was well over three quarters full, both double deckers. I am not sure if there was an event on anywhere or if it was just the nice weather but I assume Matlock Bath would have been rammed!

 

[JD2168]

According to South Yorkshire Transport Forum Manchester Hyde Road E400MMC 11270 has arrived on loan at Chesterfield. Ferrymill Motors Fm36 MX14 FUP is still on loan at Rawmarsh, if anyone is tracking this bus on Bus Times it uses fleet number 37105 on there.

There will be a number of Service changes from the 24th July:

Service Changes

Service changes affecting buses in Sheffield and Rotherham

www.stagecoachbus.com

 

[nferguso]

I can't imagine the Wirksworth extension will last too long. I saw it earlier and there wasn't a single person on it.

You want to take a look. Very popular and people have certainly woken up to the travel potential. I am planning a trip to the Solway Coast by taking the X17 to Sheffield, then Leeds, Carlisle, Aspatria.

 

[JD2168]

E400 19032 has transferred from Ecclesfield to Barnsley with 19149 moving in the other direction. 19032 has only been able to go on 72/72a & 201 since the Clean Air zone started as it is not compliant. Pride liveried E400MMC 10663 has gone to Chesterfield, it will probably visit all depots except Rawmarsh whilst in this livery. Scania E400 15824 has gone to Barnsley. E200’s 37185 & 37145 have moved to Rawmarsh from Chesterfield & Barnsley depots as the PVR has increased here with the 114 & 138 routes introduced.

 

[J-2739]

When are the Yutongs entering service?

 

[JD2168]

E400MMC 10663 has returned to Barnsley, was swapped back in exchange for 15824 using an X17 board with the buses swapping over at Barnsley.

Scania E400 15719 has become a part open top version, still retaining the high back seats in a green based livery for Peak Explorer based at Chesterfield Depot.

GN58 plate E300 22565 & 22570 have entered service at Chesterfield depot, only 22564 to enter service.

 

[MasterSpenny]

According to Bus Lists on the Web (buslistsontheweb.co.uk):
11700 - YX23OYP

 

[J-2739]

When are the Yutongs entering service?

Any updates on this front?

 

[JD2168]

Scania K230UB Enviro 300 28673 has been repainted into Local livery, losing the X19 branding in the process. The three GN58 plate Enviro 300’s have all moved to Barnsley depot from Chesterfield.

 

[childwallblues]

Barnsley is reported to have received E300 27229/30 SK15HFR/HFS Ffrom Stagecoach Manchester at Wigan.
Source Quack 77 fleetlists.

 

[mk1979]

Any updates on this front?

First Yutong due January 2024, the remaining 22 by March 2024.

Barnsley is reported to have received E300 27229/30 SK15HFR/HFS Ffrom Stagecoach Manchester at Wigan.
Source Quack 77 fleetlists.

11 E300's in total are entering the Yorkshire fleet from Wigan split between Barnsley and Chesterfield. A few in old colours will be repainted before entering service and a few need moving between depots, including one back to Manchester after a last minute change of plan.

First 5 E400MMC's bound for Holbrook have arrived, no delivery dates confirmed yet on the remaining 15. They will probably be drip fed into service causing a wider cascade of vehicles around the patch.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

First 5 E400MMC's bound for Holbrook have arrived, no delivery dates confirmed yet on the remaining 15. They will probably be drip fed into service causing a wider cascade of vehicles around the patch.

Are Yorkshire planning to withdraw or move into reserve some of their Enviro 400 Hybrids, like other regions have been lately? Otherwise one would assume the remaining 56/07 plate E400s would be most vulnerable to replacement.

 

[mk1979]

Are Yorkshire planning to withdraw or move into reserve some of their Enviro 400 Hybrids, like other regions have been lately? Otherwise one would assume the remaining 56/07 plate E400s would be most vulnerable to replacement.

The Hybrids won't be withdrawn *yet* - that is part of another plan that may, or may not, happen.

Ultimately the arrival of the E400MMC's and mid life E300's will see off the MAN single deckers from Barnsley and Chesterfield. The Rawmarsh MAN's will cling on until the Yutongs arrive in 2024. After that we'll start on the early E400's, plus possibly the hybrids.

 

[Teapot42]

The Hybrids won't be withdrawn *yet* - that is part of another plan that may, or may not, happen.

Ultimately the arrival of the E400MMC's and mid life E300's will see off the MAN single deckers from Barnsley and Chesterfield. The Rawmarsh MAN's will cling on until the Yutongs arrive in 2024. After that we'll start on the early E400's, plus possibly the hybrids.

Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what is wrong with the Hybrids that they are being stood down across the Stagecoach fleet? For Sheffield in particular while old they are newer than much of the fleet.

Aside from a few E300s, will Chesterfield be getting anything much else? It's definitely the poor relation, with not much under 10 years old. We were told over the summer that some of the cancellations were due to bus breakdowns, and while they've sorted that by cutting services so they don't need as many buses I'd imagine there must be a good few coming up to the point where they need replacing.

On a totally unrelated note, I've wondered for a while why the X17 is purely run by Chesterfield, and not shared with Barnsley. The early buses out to Barnsley must surely be fairly lightly loaded just to get a vehicle to a town that already has a Stagecoach depot. Running a better evening service to Barnsley would also be easier if the bus was based there surely?

 

[J-2739]

First Yutong due January 2024, the remaining 22 by March 2024.

Thank you!

The Hybrids won't be withdrawn *yet* - that is part of another plan that may, or may not, happen.

Ultimately the arrival of the E400MMC's and mid life E300's will see off the MAN single deckers from Barnsley and Chesterfield. The Rawmarsh MAN's will cling on until the Yutongs arrive in 2024. After that we'll start on the early E400's, plus possibly the hybrids.

Good, it's about time the MAN's were cleared away. Some of them are in a truly appalling state internally, and they are not particularly powerful up the hills. I remember my first ride on these as a five year old!

Also good news for Barnsley to be receiving more double decker!

 

[EnviroExplorer]

The Hybrids won't be withdrawn *yet* - that is part of another plan that may, or may not, happen.

Ultimately the arrival of the E400MMC's and mid life E300's will see off the MAN single deckers from Barnsley and Chesterfield. The Rawmarsh MAN's will cling on until the Yutongs arrive in 2024. After that we'll start on the early E400's, plus possibly the hybrids.

Thanks for the reply, always nice to know which buses to expect to be withdrawn soon.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what is wrong with the Hybrids that they are being stood down across the Stagecoach fleet? For Sheffield in particular while old they are newer than much of the fleet.

The batteries become depleted and need replacement. It's extremely expensive. East Yorkshire and First West of England repowered some of theirs as standard Euro VI diesels when they were 8/9 years old (i.e. midlife). However, there are many instances where the early hybrids are simply being withdrawn early. First are particularly pursuing this course of action with e400Hs and e350Hs gone, Volvo 7900Hs almost gone, and now starting on B5LHs.

Quite simply, the business case for repowering or battery replacement doesn't stack up for a 12 year vehicle, hence why Stagecoach is now following suit.

 

[Teapot42]

The batteries become depleted and need replacement. It's extremely expensive. East Yorkshire and First West of England repowered some of theirs as standard Euro VI diesels when they were 8/9 years old (i.e. midlife). However, there are many instances where the early hybrids are simply being withdrawn early. First are particularly pursuing this course of action with e400Hs and e350Hs gone, Volvo 7900Hs almost gone, and now starting on B5LHs.

Quite simply, the business case for repowering or battery replacement doesn't stack up for a 12 year vehicle, hence why Stagecoach is now following suit.

Thanks, I did wonder if that was the case. Are they dependent on the battery, or could they be run as a conventional diesel? Presumably even if so it would invalidate their Euro 6 so would have to be moved away from Sheffield.

It does appear a lot of the earlier Hybrid technology didn't really consider things like mid-life replacement of battery packs, hopefully newer stuff will have that a bit better thought out.

 

[mk1979]

Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere, but what is wrong with the Hybrids that they are being stood down across the Stagecoach fleet? For Sheffield in particular while old they are newer than much of the fleet.

There are two versions of ADL E400 hybrids, TB08 and TB100.

The TB08’s are the first version and are problematic so are being withdrawn where replacements are available.

The TB100’s are the younger version which are in service in Sheffield. These are not due withdrawal but may be concentrated in one location if suitable replacements can be found as it will assist with knowledge and spares.

Aside from a few E300s, will Chesterfield be getting anything much else? It's definitely the poor relation, with not much under 10 years old.

Chesterfield got the last new vehicles before the pandemic with 8 E400MMC’s and 9 coaches. As part of the cascade they are receiving mid life vehicles to replace the oldest single deckers.

On a totally unrelated note, I've wondered for a while why the X17 is purely run by Chesterfield, and not shared with Barnsley. The early buses out to Barnsley must surely be fairly lightly loaded just to get a vehicle to a town that already has a Stagecoach depot. Running a better evening service to Barnsley would also be easier if the bus was based there surely?

Sharing routes between other depots is never a good idea from either a scheduling or service delivery perspective.

 

[Teapot42]

There are two versions of ADL E400 hybrids, TB08 and TB100.

The TB08’s are the first version and are problematic so are being withdrawn where replacements are available.

The TB100’s are the younger version which are in service in Sheffield. These are not due withdrawal but may be concentrated in one location if suitable replacements can be found as it will assist with knowledge and spares.

Thanks for the info. Is Holbrook likely to get any E400H from elsewhere if that's been chosen as a depot to concentrate them? I was reading some in Manchester have gone in to the reserve fleet for example, could they come over and free up other buses?

Chesterfield got the last new vehicles before the pandemic with 8 E400MMC’s and 9 coaches. As part of the cascade they are receiving mid life vehicles to replace the oldest single deckers.

The E400MMCs were for the X17, nothing else seems to have got new vehicles. The E300s at 15 years old certainly need replacing, but the majority of their E200s are over 10 years old and there is the question of what is going to replace the Solos which are 13 and 16 years old now.

Sharing routes between other depots is never a good idea from either a scheduling or service delivery perspective.

Chesterfield shares the 77 with Worksop - a depot not even in the same division. Before the extension to Wirksworth it would have made sense for Chesterfield to run the Sheffield to Matlock section and Barnsley run their section to Chesterfield, but now it's a bit less clear-cut.

In many ways it feels like Chesterfield is an out-station of Sheffield however, rather than a depot in it's own right.

 

[mk1979]

Thanks for the info. Is Holbrook likely to get any E400H from elsewhere if that's been chosen as a depot to concentrate them? I was reading some in Manchester have gone in to the reserve fleet for example, could they come over and free up other buses?

As I said above, there is a plan which may, or may not, happen and thats as much I'll say at this stage. Holbrook won't be the place to concentrate them on despite the knowledge and experience the team have built up for the vehicle type. Holbrook won't need more deckers once the E400MMC's are in service.

The E400MMCs were for the X17, nothing else seems to have got new vehicles. The E300s at 15 years old certainly need replacing, but the majority of their E200s are over 10 years old and there is the question of what is going to replace the Solos which are 13 and 16 years old now.

We usually buy new vehicles for specific routes. As I said above the MAN powered E300's are due for withdrawal shortly. E200's have several years to go. Solo's - nothing confirmed yet but see what happens.

Chesterfield shares the 77 with Worksop - a depot not even in the same division. Before the extension to Wirksworth it would have made sense for Chesterfield to run the Sheffield to Matlock section and Barnsley run their section to Chesterfield, but now it's a bit less clear-cut.

The sharing of the 77 is a long running arrangement which experiences all the challenges I mention. I'm not going to be creating more challenges by sharing more routes between depots.

In many ways it feels like Chesterfield is an out-station of Sheffield however, rather than a depot in it's own right.

Chesterfield has got the largest fleet in the company with 91 vehicles, hardly an outstation. For comparison the two Sheffield depots combined are 111 so only 20 more across two depots.

 

[JD2168]

There are two versions of ADL E400 hybrids, TB08 and TB100.

The TB08’s are the first version and are problematic so are being withdrawn where replacements are available.

The TB100’s are the younger version which are in service in Sheffield. These are not due withdrawal but may be concentrated in one location if suitable replacements can be found as it will assist with knowledge and spares.



Chesterfield got the last new vehicles before the pandemic with 8 E400MMC’s and 9 coaches. As part of the cascade they are receiving mid life vehicles to replace the oldest single deckers.



Sharing routes between other depots is never a good idea from either a scheduling or service delivery perspective.

Another with regards the X17, there are no Gold specification Double Deckers at Barnsley & apart from the E400MMC’s most of the other deckers at Barnsley I believe might not be compliant with the Sheffield Clean Air Zone.

 

[Simon75]

Would both Sheffield garages ever get merged on to one site, like First has to Olive Grove?

 

[Teapot42]

As I said above, there is a plan which may, or may not, happen and thats as much I'll say at this stage. Holbrook won't be the place to concentrate them on despite the knowledge and experience the team have built up for the vehicle type. Holbrook won't need more deckers once the E400MMC's are in service.

As an aside on the E400H, has someone like Zeebus not thought of either an upgrade or full conversion module? There must be significant numbers of them reaching the point where something needs doing but with a good 5-7 years potential life left in the vehicle. I'd be surprised with advances in battery cell and management technology, as well as improvements in supercaps that something can't be done at a viable cost point to keep these buses going.

The sharing of the 77 is a long running arrangement which experiences all the challenges I mention. I'm not going to be creating more challenges by sharing more routes between depots.

Are such challenges recent, or were they just easier to handle in the dim and distant past? For example, where I grew up one local service was shared between two different operators across three depots and the arrangement seemed to work well.

Chesterfield has got the largest fleet in the company with 91 vehicles, hardly an outstation. For comparison the two Sheffield depots combined are 111 so only 20 more across two depots.

A decent proportion of those run services in to Sheffield, including from the next timetable change one run that doesn't leave the city boundary. I don't believe any Sheffield-based buses come out to Chesterfield, thus my slightly flippant comment about it being an out-station.

Another with regards the X17, there are no Gold specification Double Deckers at Barnsley & apart from the E400MMC’s most of the other deckers at Barnsley I believe might not be compliant with the Sheffield Clean Air Zone.

Chesterfield got 8 new vehicles when the service was extended to Barnsley, some of those could easily have been based there instead. At one point Barnsley did seem to run a single X17 round trip in the evening peak, but that only went as far as Sheffield.

I don't suppose anyone has a link to the Chesterfield changes from the end of next month? The page I had bookmarked (still with the title 'changed to buses in Chesterfield') now only lists Sheffield, Barnsley and Rotherham changes.

 

[M803UYA]

Are such challenges recent, or were they just easier to handle in the dim and distant past? For example, where I grew up one local service was shared between two different operators across three depots and the arrangement seemed to work well.

I'd suggest they're historic. A fairly normal 3 bus service running on an hourly interval between two towns is something I've come across elsewhere in the country. Two of the three buses were based in one town, the third at the other end. Because the depot with the two buses had more vehicles on the route than the other it was 'their' service.

The depot putting one bus out regularly substituted it for whatever was available, and would send a 29/33 seater whilst there was a need for a 40 seat bus. Didn't matter to them as it wasn't their service and people can just wait an hour for the other depot's bus. They'll have capacity.

The company decided to improve the route, and some 18 month old Volvo single decker low floor buses turned up. These were route branded for the service. Around 4 buses transferred in - sufficient plus a spare to ensure the route always ran with them. 2 buses each. Very good and positive. The depot with the 1 bus working didn't bother using the bus for the route it was branded. They literally appeared all over the place. Anywhere it wasn't branded for in fact. Whilst they carried on throwing out just about anything onto their single working.

Not our route, we're not bothered... Nothing is branded for the route these days and it most definitely doesn't run hourly anymore. Or have nice 18 month old buses.

So I can see why you'd keep a route to a single depot. You could outbase a vehicle somewhere and have it work into the mother depot - that helps ownership of the route overall.