Standing Space Enhancements?

[TeignmouthTown]

For those skim readers amongst you, i am simply looking for your feedback on what you think would enhance your standing experience on a busy train, such as wall mounted cushions, folding tables at standing height, volo screens at head height etc.

For those of you who are willing to read, i am working on a design brief at university. Basically i have to take an example of a commute that i take often (i travel from Teignmouth to Bristol and back 3 days a week) and try and devise a concept that would increase the experience for those involved.

I notice that during peak travel times the vestibule areas of the MK3 coaches often have on average 8 people standing, so 16 per carriage to its 56 seats, so about 11% of those travelling have no amenities catered for them whatsoever.

Those standing may have paid the same, and on most occasions more, (last minute/non seat booking is more expensive that pre-booking where a seat is allocated) so i believe they are just as important to accomodate than those sitting. I think the ability to use the time to work, be it reading, typing, notemaking, and dont believe this should be done sat on a dusty floor.

If you could have some input that would really help! I have digitally drawn up some mk3 coaches in FGW and CC livery that i will share at a later date!

Thanks.

 

[ainsworth74]

I tink the main thing that would help standing passengers in vestibules would be grab handles (or other things to hold onto) and also perch seating as found on the underground (see here for example). I don't think things like Volo TVs or tables would really be very useful.

 

[rail-britain]

I tink the main thing that would help standing passengers in vestibules would be grab handles

These already exist

Personally, noone should be standing
However, even I am guilty of this and on a nearly full train for a short journey I will often stand rather than sit like sardines
Hence why people tend to sit offset on 3+2 seating or on the outer seats of 2+2 seating

This is quite obvious on trains on centralised doors, rather than end doors (such as 314 versus 156)
On a Class 156 people will tend to find a seat rather than stand

 

[Keele13]

The more stuff you cram in a vestibule, the less space for people to stand up, so if you had those fold down seats you're effectively cutting the number of people who can fit in the space from about 3 to 1, and whoever sits down has their face in someone's backside! A recessed shelf (so not one that sticks out into the vestibule, one cut away from the wall) at just below shoulder height that you could put your cup of tea or rest a laptop on may work - but I don't quite know how you'd fit it in - presumably there is something behind the wall panels that needs covering up?

 

[WatcherZero]

The term for 'wall mounted cushions' is 'perch seats'.

 

[tbtc]

Personally, noone should be standing

True, but in the real world we have to accept that there will be peak services where supply cannot meet demand (or it is not economically viable to have spare coaches for a couple of busy services a day).

In this case I think we have to accept that there will be people standing, and what to do about that. I think that some "cushions"/ "mounts" around the edge of the vestibule area are a way of acknowledging this, as well as the racks/ handles that others have mentioned.

The term for 'wall mounted cushions' is 'perch seats'

Sounds fishy to me...

 

[Deerfold]

From what I've heard of them the last thing I want is Volo screens.

If I want to bring my own entertainment with earphones I can.

 

[Greenback]

These already exist

Well, they ar enot in existenc eon my daily trains.

Personally, noone should be standing

Given a choice between sitting next to a drooling, rather smelly drunk and standing up, it;s standing every time for me!

Perhaps you mean no one should be forced to stand? If so, I agree in principle, but it would be hard to ensure that everyone always has a seat one very single service.

However, even I am guilty of this and on a nearly full train for a short journey I will often stand rather than sit like sardines
Hence why people tend to sit offset on 3+2 seating or on the outer seats of 2+2 seating

This is quite obvious on trains on centralised doors, rather than end doors (such as 314 versus 156)
On a Class 156 people will tend to find a seat rather than stand

Ah, I knew it wasn't just me!

From what I've heard of them the last thing I want is Volo screens.

If I want to bring my own entertainment with earphones I can.

Volo screens at head height? I can think of nothing worse! Not much anyway.

Still, it would be better than screens showing a constant stream of inane adverts...

 

[route:oxford]

The trouble with pull down seats and such like is that they are a trip hazard for people with poor vision.

Not even just people with poor vision though... Sometime people forget that those of us who are six footers (or more), when looking ahead, are actually looking at a spot on the ground around 3-4 metres ahead, even when looking down(ish) we're looking at a spot 2 metres ahead.

Pull down seats, luggage, errant legs and roaming toddlers are a complete danger.

 

[Lampshade]

Mk4 coaches used to have flip down vestibule seats for so called 'gangway passengers' but these were taken out. 158s, 175s and 180s still have them though.

 

[swadbus]

The trouble with pull down seats and such like is that they are a trip hazard for people with poor vision.

Not even just people with poor vision though... Sometime people forget that those of us who are six footers (or more), when looking ahead, are actually looking at a spot on the ground around 3-4 metres ahead, even when looking down(ish) we're looking at a spot 2 metres ahead.

Pull down seats, luggage, errant legs and roaming toddlers are a complete danger.

So grab poles for tieing young children to would be useful. :roll:

 

[Badger]

Fold down seats are the only ones I can actually fit in on Turbostars (other than tables and the priority seats). Please don't remove them!

 

[Greenback]

Mk4 coaches used to have flip down vestibule seats for so called 'gangway passengers' but these were taken out. 158s, 175s and 180s still have them though.

I regularly perch on the 175 vestibule seats on my daily commute. They are not as comfortable as a normal seat, but much better than standing up!

 

[TeignmouthTown]

Thanks for your replies! They are very helpfull.
Ok so i understand fold down seats are a bit of a no no for obvious reasons, hence why i think 'perch seats' things would be helpfull, after all, it is rather uncomfortable to be trying to rest your body against a smooth hard surface with a number of buttons. bolts etc.

As for volo screens, i have been working on the design for something slightly different, mainly a screen that could either show a rolling news feed, or an exhibition of rolling artwork, with artists able to submit their work online, and have their proposed exhibition voted on, and it would change weekly. Also USB ports for those who are un/lucky enough to have an iphone that by the evening commute, is struggling for life. Theres nothing worse than getting on a train assuming you will get a plug socket only for it to be too full to get near one, i think a few more amenities for charging in the standing areas would be good.

Folding tables i guess not the best idea then, either. But thanks again, and any more suggestions are welcome.

 

[WatcherZero]

Perch seat, in case anyone was in any doubt.

I find quite often metal perch seats are too slippery and I keep sliding off them, cushion ones usually have grip to hold your bum in place.

 

[snail]

For those of you who are willing to read, i am working on a design brief at university.

I hope you are going to quote your sources if you use any of the ideas on this thread! Just a word of caution, remember that university work is supposed to be your original thought and systems are in place to catch rehashed words written on the interwebs that are not properly cited...

 

[thelem]

The perch seat shown in the photo above takes up the space (along the length of the train) of a normal seat and therefore means there aren't as many seats available off peak, even if the train has enough floor space to seat everyone. They are therefore only sensible for severely overcrowded routes.

I'd like to see perch seats replace the horizontal grab rails in the 377 pictured above. I don't see any drawbacks - the perch would replace the grab rail from the point of view of the standing passengers, and if they are needed for passengers boarding the train then a rail could be placed below the perch.

I would also get rid of all 3+2 seating - if a route is busy enough to need the extra capacity, then it is better to provide a wider aisle with plenty of grab handles. Overcrowded trains are the worst place to have a narrow aisle as there is no space to get past people from the middle of the carriage when you need to get off. If a service isn't so busy, then it is better to provide seats wide enough for the average person to sit in.

 

[TeignmouthTown]

I hope you are going to quote your sources if you use any of the ideas on this thread! Just a word of caution, remember that university work is supposed to be your original thought and systems are in place to catch rehashed words written on the interwebs that are not properly cited...

This thread will be printed at put in my module folder (full of all the web pages i have used) and each quote used in the presentation will be quoted with the posters name. Unless you have a silly name, then i will just called you Steve or Geoff. I dont know what you studied but my degree is highly research based.

 

[exile]

Misericords!