Stansted coach changes - a bit of a mess

[embers25]

They are finally being a bit more honest, though still not completely and saying you need to allow 5 hours is insane!!! Also Stratford is unsurprisingly suspended.

From http://www.terravision.eu/airport_t...don/?adws=EN&gclid=CPLyoJO_0soCFWXnwgodzKIKyw

Notice to passengers

All services departing from Stansted airport to London will terminate at King’s Cross train station until further notice. (The station provides direct interchange with London Underground with direct connection to Victoria Station and Liverpool Street).
All services departing from London city centre will temporarily require a change of transportation either at King’s Cross train station or Bishops Stortford train station. (This service is included in our ticket price and customers will be directed towards the appropriate service).
Due to these changes, we are recommending that customers allow additional time for their journey. In order to factor in the time required to pass through airport control, we are now advising customers to allow 5 hours for their transfer time between central London and Stansted Airport.

Despite these disruptions, Terravision continues to offer the lowest cost bus transfer to passengers between Central London and Stansted airport.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Still going out of their way to avoid using the word "Citylink" however, still nowhere near transparent enough, they still paint themselves out as operating from Stansted Airport when they are not, they come across as just doing whatever they can to keep the money coming in.

 

[Titfield]

Perhaps Steve Mills Passenger Transport Development Manager at London Stansted should get involved and sort this out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can he? If their coaches are not entering Stansted's private land, what can he do?

 

[radamfi]

Are Terravision giving passengers train tickets from Bishop's Stortford to Stansted? That's £3.80 off-peak or £5.30 peak, so that's a fair chunk out of the £6 fare.

 

[Titfield]

By putting up signs advising passengers of the services that are offered from Stansted and by whom.

What is the point of his role if he doesn't do something to alleviate the damage to Stansted's reputation?

 

[radamfi]

By putting up signs advising passengers of the services that are offered from Stansted and by whom.

I thought they already did that?

Presumably Terravision are still getting a fair amount of business from people buying tickets on the plane before arriving at Stansted, so maybe the airport could have discussions with the airlines. Regular travellers living in and around London are probably used to using Terravision so buy tickets with them out of habit.

Can Stansted Airport stop Citylink accepting Terravision tickets? I doubt it, as you could argue that Terravision are merely acting as resellers for Citylink, in the same way that National Express accept easyBus tickets.

 

[F Great Eastern]

At Stansted again today, a few more notes since my previous post above.

I saw even more National Express coaches that were operating in plain white, including a number of coaches that were hired in from United Coaches, no obvious sign of who they were operating for. When I've seen National Express operate hire ins in the past they've always had a National Express sign in the window. I also saw a number of passengers who were asking for the Terravision services be pointed towards "the plain white coach is the bus for Terravision customers" but I didn't get close enough to the actual boarding of said coach to know if they were charging them or allowing them on for free.

Autostrade reps at the airport are continuing to air the views that as they are Italian they are the Spiritual successor of Terravision and Italian Passengers should travel with them if they want to support Italian companies and point to the fact that they took over the Terravision desk in Stansted Airport as back-up that this was the case, there appeared to be more announcements in Italian than English by them.

Citylink are continuing to operate hire-ins but the service seems badly organised, particularly from the Kings Cross side and comes across as anything but a slick operation, although better from the Stansted side, strangely the hired in drivers and coaches tend to be far more on the ball and knowing what is going on than the actual directly operated services which considering a number of the hired in services have been flown in from Dublin and others would rarely have ever operated into Stansted is quite something.

Speculation is that Citylink will stop accepting Terravision tickets at the end of February and will only take directly purchased tickets with the Citylink brand being promoted to Terravision passengers and passengers are being told to no longer purchase tickets from Terravision and instead to purchase direct from Citylink in the future. All of the Terravision coaches appeared to be being hired in that I've seen today, even for the hops across London, not sure where their own vehicles are.

Terravision have modified their license with effect of tomorrow and A51 will now terminate at Bishops Stortford and all passengers from Victoria and Liverpool Street will now be given tickets for the train and will no longer go to Kings Cross. Perhaps this is a reaction to the fact that they feel it will be less damaging to use the indirect train than a bus service who are directly marketing their customers. The service from Redbridge and Stratford will be completely suspended from 1st February also and not run at all.

 

[radamfi]

Terravision have modified their license with effect of tomorrow and A51 will now terminate at Bishops Stortford and all passengers from Victoria and Liverpool Street will now be given tickets for the train and will no longer go to Kings Cross. Perhaps this is a reaction to the fact that they feel it will be less damaging to use the indirect train than a bus service who are directly marketing their customers. The service from Redbridge and Stratford will be completely suspended from 1st February also and not run at all.

So does that mean that Citylink will only be carrying Terravision passengers *from* Stansted only and not *to* Stansted?

 

[F Great Eastern]

The non stop Victoria services are A50 and I've not seen anything to suggest that has changed and will still go to Kings Cross, however there is speculation this could change sooner rather than later but nothing official. A51 will not serve Kings Cross and will go to Bishops Stortford A52 will not operate at all.

From the Airport everything will be Citylink since Terravision have no other choice.

 

[radamfi]

If Terravision are paying Citylink as well as train tickets (unless they are getting a bulk discount?) then they must be losing a lot of money at the moment. Presumably they are prepared to subsidise the operation until the legal action is settled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

By putting up signs advising passengers of the services that are offered from Stansted and by whom.



What is the point of his role if he doesn't do something to alleviate the damage to Stansted's reputation?

Once again, what *can* he do? Quite possibly nothing if Terravision do not enter the airport boundary and Citylink are not in breach of contract by carrying their passengers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Terravision have modified their license with effect of tomorrow and A51 will now terminate at Bishops Stortford and all passengers from Victoria and Liverpool Street will now be given tickets for the train and will no longer go to Kings Cross. Perhaps this is a reaction to the fact that they feel it will be less damaging to use the indirect train than a bus service who are directly marketing their customers. The service from Redbridge and Stratford will be completely suspended from 1st February also and not run at all.

What licence? Commercial express coaches are, other than as relates to road traffic law, totally unregulated.

This is why, however rubbish the situation is, nothing can be done about it unless Terravision are breaking the law.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I meant a service permit,
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-bulletin.pdf

 

[radamfi]

What licence? Commercial express coaches are, other than as relates to road traffic law, totally unregulated.

This is why, however rubbish the situation is, nothing can be done about it unless Terravision are breaking the law.

Buses entering London need a London Service Permit

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/london-service-permits

 

[Robertj21a]

By putting up signs advising passengers of the services that are offered from Stansted and by whom.

What is the point of his role if he doesn't do something to alleviate the damage to Stansted's reputation?

Stansted already has signs up advising what services are offered, and by whom. That doesn't alter the fact that many passengers will have bought tickets through the Terravision website, or on the plane.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Terravision are now tweeting customers and people who are warning others of what is going on with such messages like.

Hi, our service is active, you can find all information about our service at the following link ----> http://*******/1PGXk7c

They're also now responding to all requests to refunds via email with a general rant about Stansted Airport, completely ignoring passengers complaints and making it all about themselves.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps Steve Mills Passenger Transport Development Manager at London Stansted should get involved and sort this out.

I thought he was the one who caused the mess in the first place!

 

[ScotGG]

Looks like Stansted Express have wacked up their advance fares in response to the reduction in cheap direct coach tickets. Yay for competition.

 

[RT4038]

Buses entering London need a London Service Permit

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/suppliers-and-contractors/london-service-permits

No they don't. Only if the same passenger is to be picked and set down within the TfL area. Long Distance coaches not conveying locally are de-regulated and require no permit at all.

 

[F Great Eastern]

No they don't. Only if the same passenger is to be picked and set down within the TfL area. Long Distance coaches not conveying locally are de-regulated and require no permit at all.

So tell me why they applied for one in the first place and made changes to it in the last few days? Just for the fun of it as they thought it might be a laugh to mislead everyone? Can imagine them sitting in the office saying, you know what, we're bored today, lets apply for a permit we don't even need.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-bulletin.pdf

Looks like Stansted Express have wacked up their advance fares in response to the reduction in cheap direct coach tickets. Yay for competition.

No difference to me. £12 in advance for 7 days or more and £8 for 30 days or more.

 

[deltic]

So tell me why they applied for one in the first place and made changes to it in the last few days? Just for the fun of it as they thought it might be a laugh to mislead everyone? Can imagine them sitting in the office saying, you know what, we're bored today, lets apply for a permit we don't even need.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-bulletin.pdf



No difference to me. £12 in advance for 7 days or more and £8 for 30 days or more.

I find the guidance rather confusing but my understanding is that express coach services that have only one stop in London and the next stop is 15 miles beyond that stop and outside of London are exempt. Where an operator provides a services that has more than one stop in London which Terravision services do then they must be registered.

So National Express services to and from VCS which call at Heathrow and Golders Green are registered but those that are say first stop Milton Keynes are not.

But I stand to be corrected

 

[RT4038]

So tell me why they applied for one in the first place and made changes to it in the last few days? Just for the fun of it as they thought it might be a laugh to mislead everyone? Can imagine them sitting in the office saying, you know what, we're bored today, lets apply for a permit we don't even need.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-bulletin.pdf



As I explained, a London local service is only required if local passengers are being conveyed within the TfL area. I expect that they have the permit to do this in order to claim Bus Service Operators Grant (the old Fuel Duty Rebate) [for local services with stops less than 15 miles apart], rather than any intention of actually carrying any local passengers. If you look on page 3 of your link, you will see National Express doing a similar thing with route A5 (Golders Green to Victoria) and A7 (Southwark to Victoria), as part of their routes to/from Stansted Airport. A non-stop service Stansted Airport to (say) Victoria would not require a permit, but would not get any BSOG payment either.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I find the guidance rather confusing but my understanding is that express coach services that have only one stop in London and the next stop is 15 miles beyond that stop and outside of London are exempt. Where an operator provides a services that has more than one stop in London which Terravision services do then they must be registered.

So National Express services to and from VCS which call at Heathrow and Golders Green are registered but those that are say first stop Milton Keynes are not.

But I stand to be corrected

A service operating Milton Keynes-Golders Green-Victoria would not need a permit if no local passengers were to be conveyed between Golders Green and Victoria. Coach companies apply for the permits in order to be able to convey locally, not because they have any intention of doing so, but in order to claim Bus Service Operators Grant for this section.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A service operating Milton Keynes-Golders Green-Victoria would not need a permit if no local passengers were to be conveyed between Golders Green and Victoria. Coach companies apply for the permits in order to be able to convey locally, not because they have any intention of doing so, but in order to claim Bus Service Operators Grant for this section.

A lot of this goes on, and I think the rules should be tightened up to prevent it. That or, as coach travel is to be encouraged, BSOG should be extended to all public service coaches. One or the other.

FWIW sometimes it brings benefits, though. The stop at Kingston and just off the motorway at Luton on the Stagecoach 99 only exist so it can claim BSOG - but as it turned out are the busiest two stops on the service. Barely anyone actually goes to Luton Airport on it.

 

[Mr Manager]

Taken from N&P's issued yesterday. Very strange indeed.

TERRAVISION TRANSPORT LIMITED T/A TERRAVISION
Director(s): FABIO PETRONI.
UNIT 13, FOUNTAIN SQUARE, 125 BUCKINGHAM PALACE ROAD
LONDON SW1W 9SH
Removed operating centre: BUILDING 45 AIRWAYS HOUSE, FIRST AVENUE,
LONDON STANSTED AIRPORT STANSTED CM24 1RY
New operating centre: 6012 LONG BORDER ROAD, LONDON STANSTED
AIRPORT , STANSTED CM24 1RL ()
New authorisation at this operating centre will be: 5 vehicle(s),

 

[ScotGG]

So tell me why they applied for one in the first place and made changes to it in the last few days? Just for the fun of it as they thought it might be a laugh to mislead everyone? Can imagine them sitting in the office saying, you know what, we're bored today, lets apply for a permit we don't even need.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-bulletin.pdf



No difference to me. £12 in advance for 7 days or more and £8 for 30 days or more.

It was £7.50 to Stratford pretty much always if booked a month in advance. Now 4 weeks in advance and £11 is the lowest I'm getting. Even 5 weeks ahead is £10. Highest I've ever seen advances.

 

[greenline727]

If you wish to serve a "London Buses" bus stop, you must have a London Service Permit, even if the other end of the service is outside London and there are no stops within 15 miles.
Citylink has an LSP for just that reason, and Terravision will also have an LSP.
An LSP also specifies the route(s) to be followed; even if it is "non-stop" to the London Boundary. An LSP also needs a basic timetable. It is a legal document, and operators that flout the rules "can" be banned from operation, although the wheels of TfL grind exceeding slow!
Even NX needs one, as they stop in London other than at VCS. Only coach services that (a) start/finish at VCS and (b) do not stop at all elsewhere in London are exempt.

 

[kingston_toon]

It was £7.50 to Stratford pretty much always if booked a month in advance. Now 4 weeks in advance and £11 is the lowest I'm getting. Even 5 weeks ahead is £10. Highest I've ever seen advances.

I think they've gone quota controlled, rather than a fixed price for 30 or 7 days in advance. Checking Tottenham Hale to Stansted each day from 4 March, the fares fluctuate between £9 and £11, with the first £7.50 ticket appearing on 2 April.

 

[ScotGG]

Yep the 7/30 days cut offs for cheap trains have technically gone with cheap fares apparently available at variable time. In reality no cheapest fares for 60 days it appears. Coincided with terravision having to leave...

 

[F Great Eastern]

They're advertising massively on Facebook now as the cheapest by far to Stansted.

 

[Deerfold]

They're advertising massively on Facebook now as the cheapest by far to Stansted.

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