Starcross ferry discrimination?

[yorkie]

They use the term “face coverings” not face masks. For those that feel unable to wear a close fitting mask, the clear visors that sit away from the skin are available. Why would that not be possible, apart from for those that are opposed on an ideological basis?

Their house, their rules. And face visors would surely be an acceptable alternative?

They are not above the law; if they refuse travel to anyone who is exempt, they could be in hot water. See this case for example:

First face mask discrimination case nets £7,000 - News - Kester Disability Rights

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask. The pay-out was achieved through negotiation as there was...

disabilityrights.org.uk

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask.

I’m asthmatic and don’t feel that my disability rights have been infringed in any way during the pandemic.

That's good for you, but disability rights charities have had a tsunami of discrimination cases to deal with.

I also don’t believe that being asked to wear a mask in any way affects my life.

That's great news for you, but sadly does not apply to everyone.

Some people need to grow up.

Those who have little respect for people with anxieties, medical conditions, hidden disabilities do, yes.

 

[robbob700]

Interestingly their Facebook page has changed today. It now says

Due to COVID and being very busy in close quarters we would prefer if you did wear a face mask for safety and respect of others around you

https://www.facebook.com/StarcrossExmouthFerry/

 

[Darandio]

Interestingly their Facebook page has changed today. It now says

https://www.facebook.com/StarcrossExmouthFerry/

Indeed, looks like an edit of their pinned post and the removal of the more recent stuff demanding everyone wear masks without exceptions. Suggests to me that someone has made them aware of the law required of them.

 

[jumble]

I think you need to read more carefully.

I said “some”people. Not all people. Please do not assume you understand my position until you’ve read my post properly.

Two things.

1. Close fitting masks and transparent visors are very different devices. To not be able to cope with both devices would be unusual.

2. My 75 yo mother (along with 2 others) was verbally abused at very close range in a supermarket by a dickhead objecting about wearing a mask. She also has an invisible disability - Parkinson’s. She was hospitalised with Covid. She was on a ventilator. She now requires full time care.

Do not lecture me about this subject. And do not claim that every person claiming to be unable to wear a mask has an invisible disability.

Without wishing to be awkward and being sympathetic to her health conditions can I ask if your mother was discussing the "dickhead"'s lack of mask wearing with him when she was abused ?
I have had an old lady on a bus rudely demand "Where's your mask" rather than asking politely if I would mind wearing one.
It was at the beginning and I had simply forgotten to put it on
I am not particularly pleased when random people talk to me like I am 12 years old.

 

[GB]

These things are literally useless at protecting others.

"literally useless"? Logic would dictate any form of barrier in front of ones face probably has a small percentage of being mildly useful...if not then why (pre covid) did we bother to cough into our hands?

 

[bramling]

Without wishing to be awkward and being sympathetic to her health conditions can I ask if your mother was discussing the "dickhead"'s lack of mask wearing with him when she was abused ?
I have had an old lady on a bus rudely demand "Where's your mask" rather than asking politely if I would mind wearing one.
It was at the beginning and I had simply forgotten to put it on
I am not particularly pleased when random people talk to me like I am 12 years old.

Yes “where’s your mask?” is highly rude and confrontational IMO.

 

[greyman42]

Yes “where’s your mask?” is highly rude and confrontational IMO.

It is not the sort of thing a polite person would say to a stranger.

 

[Merseysider]

"literally useless"? Logic would dictate any form of barrier in front of ones face probably has a small percentage of being mildly useful...if not then why (pre covid) did we bother to cough into our hands?

Please see my previous post - I have quoted scientists/studies from USA, UK and Ireland. It has been repeatedly shown that face visors do not prevent transmission to any significant degree.

Yes “where’s your mask?” is highly rude and confrontational IMO.

Agreed.

 

[AlterEgo]

"literally useless"? Logic would dictate any form of barrier in front of ones face probably has a small percentage of being mildly useful...if not then why (pre covid) did we bother to cough into our hands?

They haven't been shown to be effective as a public policy measure. Take a look at the case graph for England since the beginning of the pandemic and see if you can guess, without looking, when masking was made mandatory in indoor public spaces.

They're one of the least important interventions a government can make when COVID is endemic, certainly far less effective than proper ventilation and crowd regulation.

 

[yorkie]

If anyone wishes to debate the effectiveness of mask mandates, please use the following thread:

The case for and against the effectiveness of face coverings and the mandating of their use

In order to avoid loads of more niche threads becoming overrun with the same arguments, I've created this dedicated thread to enable people to debate whether or not face coverings are effective at reducing transmission, whether or not they should be legally mandated in certain settings, and to...

www.railforums.co.uk

Indeed, looks like an edit of their pinned post and the removal of the more recent stuff demanding everyone wear masks without exceptions. Suggests to me that someone has made them aware of the law required of them.

I've noticed the Kester disability discrimination case has been posted to their Facebook page a few times, but it generally gets deleted. I'd say they were already aware of their legal obligations, in terms of exemptions, from these posts via Facebook, so something else must have happened recently.

Most recently the company asked people to vote for mandatory or voluntary mask wearing; they deleted many of the posts voting against mandatory masks and then said 98% voted for mandatory masks.

They appear to have deleted the content, which was at this link: https://www.facebook.com/StarcrossExmouthFerry/posts/4794077987357860 but I got a screenshot of part before it was deleted; see attached.

You would be well advised to read this case as part of your deliberations https://disabilityrights.org.uk/first-face-mask-discrimination-case-nets-7-000

They later deleted the entire page.

They have refused carriage to a group of disabled children; I'll see if I can find a link to that, if they've not deleted that too.

Edit: it appears they have deleted all the 2021 posts relating to face masks (they initially just deleted posts which did not support mandatory masks) but the 2020 posts do remain:

https://www.facebook.com/StarcrossExmouthFerry/posts/3709033439195659

I support young deafblind children with very complex needs. They are not able to wear masks due to their needs but we were hoping to use the ferry this week. Is this possible or would we not be allowed on?

Dan Fisk everyone 6 and over must wear a face covering due to being a small boat and being very busy

(Screenshot evidence attached)

That's an absolutely abhorrent, not to mention illegal, policy. Shame on them.

I wonder if the recent face mask posts were deleted due to threats of legal action? Incidentally, if anyone is refused carriage with this company, I can put people in touch with solicitors who would be keen to assist.

 

[STINT47]

I will never use this company again based on the horrible way they have treated people with disabilities.

I try to see the best in people and generally try to be forgiving but this is one company that I wouldn't mind seeing the court issue a hefty fine to.

I would also have no sympathy of this caused them to go out of business and they're owners to loose their income and homes.

This may sound harsh and uncaring but it's the same harsh uncaring attitude that they have demonstrated to those who through no fault of they're own have disabilities.

 

[RPI]

I'm surprised that the media haven't picked this up, the Daily Wail would love this

 

[Scott W]

I have a few screenshots with some of the quite frankly disgusting replies after my friendly suggestion to be mindful of the equality act fell on deaf ears, well initially at least anyway!

 

[Freightmaster]

I will never use this company again based on the horrible way they have treated people with disabilities.

I try to see the best in people and generally try to be forgiving but this is one company that I wouldn't mind seeing the court issue a hefty fine to.

I would also have no sympathy of this caused them to go out of business and they're owners to loose their income and homes.

This may sound harsh and uncaring but it's the same harsh uncaring attitude that they have demonstrated to those who through no fault of they're own have disabilities.

Agreed.

But out of curiosity, what has caused companies like this to behave in such an arrogant,
counter-productive and illogical way during the past year? I can only think of three reasons:

- the owners are personally petrified of Covid and want their customers to be scared too.

- they are waging a crusade against 'Covidiots' who don't want to wear masks on their premises, irrespective of any exemptions.

- they are just ill tempered 'Basil Fawlty' types who shouldn't be running a tourist ferry/shop/guest house in the first place!


So which of the three apply on this case - all of the above?!




MARK

 

[STINT47]

Ferry service refuses to carry passengers without face masks

The company said it made the decision to protect its customers and staff

www.devonlive.com

Local paper is reporting that they are still insisting on masks after the 19th and exemptions are not accepted.

The artical states that when challenged about exemptions and discrimination on social media -

"Starcross-Exmouth Ferry responded to these comments, saying: "We have been very busy and we haven't got the space to put people without a mask."

They added: "We are a private company trying to keep people safe. Just because your exempt what gives you the rights to do what you like. We do carry lots of exempt people who don't mind sitting down for 15 minutes or so with a face covering."

If anyone is taking a holiday on the south west or visiting please bear this attitude in mind when deciding on transport options.

Some people cannot wear a mask for a minute let alone 15 The people running the service may not be impacted by this but one day they could have a disability of their own and at that point their views might change when encountering rude, ignorant comments like this

Agreed.

But out of curiosity, what has caused companies like this to behave in such an arrogant,
counter-productive and illogical way during the past year? I can only think of three reasons:

- the owners are personally petrified of Covid and want their customers to be scared too.

- they are waging a crusade against 'Covidiots' who don't want to wear masks on their premises, irrespective of any exemptions.

- they are just ill tempered 'Basil Fawlty' types who shouldn't be running a tourist ferry/shop/guest house in the first place!


So which of the three apply on this case - all of the above?!




MARK

Probably a combination of all of them.

-The owner is probably scared of covid.
-The owner is probably ignorant to disabilities and the impact they have and ir thinks people are trying it on.
-The owner doesnt sound like a nice person based on reviews on trip advisor, which mention rudeness.

Not the sort of person I would want to know in a business or personal context.

 

[Ediswan]

I can't find it now, but I recall the original reason the operator gave was that he shares accomodation with his mother, who is clinically vulnerable. Now it is to protect customers and staff.

 

[yorkie]

I have a few screenshots with some of the quite frankly disgusting replies after my friendly suggestion to be mindful of the equality act fell on deaf ears, well initially at least anyway!

Ah, you're the one whose comment I had screen-shotted on Facebook. I'd like to buy you a drink! If you can join us at a forum meal, your meal will be on us too.

Ferry service refuses to carry passengers without face masks

The company said it made the decision to protect its customers and staff

www.devonlive.com

Local paper is reporting that they are still insisting on masks after the 19th and exemptions are not accepted.

The artical states that when challenged about exemptions and discrimination on social media -

"Starcross-Exmouth Ferry responded to these comments, saying: "We have been very busy and we haven't got the space to put people without a mask."

They added: "We are a private company trying to keep people safe. Just because your exempt what gives you the rights to do what you like. We do carry lots of exempt people who don't mind sitting down for 15 minutes or so with a face covering."

If anyone is taking a holiday on the south west or visiting please bear this attitude in mind when deciding on transport options.

Some people cannot wear a mask for a minute let alone 15 The people running the service may not be impacted by this but one day they could have a disability of their own and at that point their views might change when encountering rude, ignorant comments like this


Probably a combination of all of them.

-The owner is probably scared of covid.
-The owner is probably ignorant to disabilities and the impact they have and ir thinks people are trying it on.
-The owner doesnt sound like a nice person based on reviews on trip advisor, which mention rudeness.

Not the sort of person I would want to know in a business or personal context.

As of 30th June they no longer appear to mandate masks, so I suspect they've had some legal threats and the penny has finally dropped that they would have been in deep trouble if they had persisted.

I can't find it now, but I recall the original reason the operator gave was that he shares accomodation with his mother, who is clinically vulnerable. Now it is to protect customers and staff.

They make it up as they go on.