Station overcrowding and trains coming through at speed

[boxy321]

I use Solihull station everyday and it is becoming busier and busier, like many provincial places where the roads nearby get gridlocked in the morning.

What gets me is that it has quite slender platforms yet gets packed during the peaks and has trains travelling through at speed - the Reading/Manchester XC and some freight services come through at 60mph+. It's not always possible to 'stand behind the yellow line' without nudging and pushing people over towards the other platform or squashing up by the walls.

There is talk of increasing capacity with more stairs etc. but I expect nothing will happen for at least 5 years. Two LM trains arrived at Moor Street this morning, bursting London style and I don't know how they all fitted in. A train left with about 8 people on it the other way to Whitlock's End (it's as remote as it sounds). Bizarre timetabling.

No trains from Solihull go to New St (understandably), so there's an unwelcome walk through the Bull Ring in Brum for hundreds of people an hour.

When things get worse (which they will), will speed restrictions come in to mitigate the danger for people near the platform edge in future? As is the case around the country, public transport always seems years behind the needs of the people.

 

[theironroad]

More likely, the station will have to introduce crowd control measures and limit and control the numbers entering onto the platforms. (I don't know how the layout of this station, so not sure how feasible if it is open access).

Putting a speed restriction on long term because a platform is busy would be a pretty drastic measure.

 

[yorkie]

A train left with about 8 people on it the other way to Whitlock's End (it's as remote as it sounds). Bizarre timetabling.

Which train do you think is timed bizarrely? Isn't this train busy when it works back west? What would you propose instead?

 

[sprinterguy]

Which train do you think is timed bizarrely? Isn't this train busy when it works back west? What would you propose instead?

It's probably very busy with commuters when it comes into Birmingham Snow Hill from the west in the first place, before it continues its journey towards Whitlocks End. I agree with you that this doesn't strike me as bizarre timetabling at all, there's always going to be contraflow peak workings that are quiet in order to get trains to where they need to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me, we should look at DB-style platform edge fences (DB use them at minor stations with trains passing occupied platforms over 200km/h). They would also help keep the dispatch corridor clear. Does require a wide enough platform for people to be able to move behind them, though.

There is some detail on this approach here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin–Hamburg_Railway#Upgrade_for_230_km.2Fh

and I think it would be well worth considering for any UK platform where some trains don't stop, and possibly even for some stations where they all do but where there are multiple destinations so the platform doesn't typically clear for each train. Note the description is wrong - there isn't a 1.2m gate (they aren't like our platform closure fences for seldom-used high speed platforms), just a gap between the fences. The key thing they achieve is to be a clear marker of where to stand behind that still work if door positions aren't consistent. (Where they are consistent, PEDs are the answer).

 

[berneyarms]

Which train do you think is timed bizarrely? Isn't this train busy when it works back west? What would you propose instead?

It's probably very busy with commuters when it comes into Birmingham Snow Hill from the west in the first place, before it continues it's journey towards Whitlocks End. I agree with you that this doesn't strike me as bizarre timetabling at all, there's always going to be contraflow peak workings that are quiet in order to get trains to where they need to be.

Exactly - trains don't just appear out of thin air.

Later commuters need trains too, and that train is merely positioning itself to operate a later busy service into Birmingham.

 

[boxy321]

Which train do you think is timed bizarrely? Isn't this train busy when it works back west? What would you propose instead?

Sorry, I meant bizarre in that every other train at Moor St is full, but then this thing (3 coaches) appears almost empty and goes to a halt in the middle of nowhere. In the meantime, P1 is full with people heading towards London.

There are are far busier locations around Solihull serviced only with an infrequent bus.

 

[brompton rail]

Pardon me for correcting a couple of points in the OP's note.

Reading / Manchester XC Voyagers go via Coventry, so any XC Voyager you see at Solihull is Reading / Newcastle. When Operation Princess commenced these services called at Solihull ( for a coach link to Birmingham Airport ) but quickly filled up with Solihull/Birmingham passengers, and the Stop was withdrawn. These trains are full and standing north from Leamington, even in the middle of the day.

The answer at Solihull is to restore four tracks, thus keeping fast trains away from suburban platforms, but that would eliminate car parks at many of the stations on the line, the reason that the trains are so busy. Solihull is one of the few stations on that line with chargeable car parks.

 

[Mintona]

I'm confused how a train going the opposite direction to Birmingham was going to Whitlocks End.

 

[sprinterguy]

Sorry, I meant bizarre in that every other train at Moor St is full, but then this thing (3 coaches) appears almost empty and goes to a halt in the middle of nowhere. In the meantime, P1 is full with people heading towards London.

There are are far busier locations around Solihull serviced only with an infrequent bus.

Whitlocks End has been developed as a major park and ride railhead for the South West Birmingham hinterland, hence the extension of the former Shirley terminating services, and is well used in this respect: In fact, before I moved away from the area six months ago there were plans afoot to further expand the car park there to meet demand. Whitlocks End - Birmingham trains also reduce commuter demand on the limited number of Stratford trains, providing quieter trains for the intermediate Birmingham stations en route.

As noted, depending on the identity of this particular train it will either have already deposited a large number of commuters at Birmingham Snow Hill or will go on to form an additional busy commuter service into Birmingham on its return.

 

[berneyarms]

Sorry, I meant bizarre in that every other train at Moor St is full, but then this thing (3 coaches) appears almost empty and goes to a halt in the middle of nowhere. In the meantime, P1 is full with people heading towards London.

There are are far busier locations around Solihull serviced only with an infrequent bus.

Do you not think that it's going to be busy on the return journey picking up at all the stations en route?

 

[Redonian]

Whitlocks End has been developed as a major park and ride railhead for the South West Birmingham hinterland, hence the extension of the former Shirley terminating services, and is well used in this respect: In fact, before I moved away from the area six months ago there were plans afoot to further expand the car park there to meet demand. Whitlocks End - Birmingham trains also reduce commuter demand on the limited number of Stratford trains, providing quieter trains for the intermediate Birmingham stations en route.

As noted, depending on the identity of this particular train it will either have already deposited a large number of commuters at Birmingham Snow Hill or will go on to form an additional busy commuter service into Birmingham on its return.

The train in question will almost certainly have come from Worcester, thus serving Kidderminster and Stourbridge Junction en route and exactly as Sprinter Guy has said will have been full and deposited the passengers at Snow Hill so that any observation as to how many passengers are on it at Moor Street is pretty pointless.
The train runs on to Whitlocks End so it can provide a service back for all intermediate stations. Trains from Whitlocks End at this time of day will also be full so the point being made makes no sense.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, I meant bizarre in that every other train at Moor St is full, but then this thing (3 coaches) appears almost empty and goes to a halt in the middle of nowhere. In the meantime, P1 is full with people heading towards London.

There are are far busier locations around Solihull serviced only with an infrequent bus.

What train is this?

Let's assume you got to Moor Street at around 0850 and saw the 0850 from Moor Street to Whitlocks End. This train is the 0815 from Stourbridge Jn and would have been packed into Moor St. It works the 0919 back from Whitlocks End and will be busy into Birmingham.

Is your proposal for the train to terminate at Birmingham? If so, that would leave a gap on this line of 40 minutes between trains to Birmingham.

Presumably you would like to see the train run ECS to Solihull and run a train from Solihull to Birmingham? If so, it would get to Solihull around 0900 but it would be difficult to keep it out of the way of through trains due through the station at this time. I don't think this would benefit many passengers at all but would be a great dis-benefit to people on the other line.

If that isn't your proposal, feel free to enlighten us as to what your proposal is.

 

[sheff1]

I find it hard to believe that the platform at Solihull is so crowded that its is impossible to stand behind the yellow line. The fact that you talk about "squashing up against the walls" confirms to me that the problem is actually people crowding around the entrance and station buildings and not moving further down the platform.

As to the nonsense about an almost empty train going to Whitlocks End, I would love to know how you expect a train to form a Birmingham-bound service without going out to the 'country' starting station in the first place.

 

[Amy Worrall]

I find it hard to believe that the platform at Solihull is so crowded that its is impossible to stand behind the yellow line. The fact that you talk about "squashing up against the walls" confirms to me that the problem is actually people crowding around the entrance and station buildings and not moving further down the platform.

As to the nonsense about an almost empty train going to Whitlocks End, I would love to know how you expect a train to form a Birmingham-bound service without going out to the 'country' starting station in the first place.

I've been on platforms that crowded before. At Rugby during some heavy disruption on the WCML during the morning peak (I had to get off my Coventry-Euston train), and standing on platform 5 as instructed by the announcements. An announcement came on saying "The next train passing platform 5 will not stop…", when it was interrupted by a different voice who urgently yelled "Everyone on platform 5 get back!", seconds before a train came past at quite an alarming speed.

However, that was an exceptional situation.

 

[edwin_m]

(Where they are consistent, PEDs are the answer).

I don't believe Platform Edge Doors are the answer for the situation where non-stopping trains run through at speed. If the PED was close to the edge the aerodynamic forces would be too great, and if it was set further back there would be a hazard from people getting trapped between the PED and the platform edge. Can anyone think of a situation where non-stopping trains pass a PED platform, excluding those where normally all trains stop but they pass through at low speed if they are ECS or if the station has to be closed for some reason?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't believe Platform Edge Doors are the answer for the situation where non-stopping trains run through at speed. If the PED was close to the edge the aerodynamic forces would be too great, and if it was set further back there would be a hazard from people getting trapped between the PED and the platform edge. Can anyone think of a situation where non-stopping trains pass a PED platform, excluding those where normally all trains stop but they pass through at low speed if they are ECS or if the station has to be closed for some reason?

Half-height platform edge doors provide most of the benefit without this issue.

 

[iainbhx]

Which train do you think is timed bizarrely? Isn't this train busy when it works back west? What would you propose instead?

The services from Stratford-upon-Avon and Whitlocks End are very busy in the peak. I board them at Spring Road, you can get a seat on the 06:39 and the 06:59, you might get one on the 07:13 and after that you can forget about it until the 09:11. I realise that Silhillians think its a backwater out there, despite the Dickens Heath development but Whitlocks End does see over 140,000* passengers a year now and there is a 275 space car park which is usually full.

If you want a good case for overcrowding, Platform 1 at Moor Street in the evening peak is an increasingly good example.

* You can probably increase that by 20% for fare evasion.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

To me, we should look at DB-style platform edge fences (DB use them at minor stations with trains passing occupied platforms over 200km/h). They would also help keep the dispatch corridor clear. Does require a wide enough platform for people to be able to move behind them, though.

There is some detail on this approach here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin–Hamburg_Railway#Upgrade_for_230_km.2Fh

and I think it would be well worth considering for any UK platform where some trains don't stop, and possibly even for some stations where they all do but where there are multiple destinations so the platform doesn't typically clear for each train. Note the description is wrong - there isn't a 1.2m gate (they aren't like our platform closure fences for seldom-used high speed platforms), just a gap between the fences. The key thing they achieve is to be a clear marker of where to stand behind that still work if door positions aren't consistent. (Where they are consistent, PEDs are the answer).

Oh dear Neil, another one of your "it works in Germany so it's bound to be a good idea for us too" comments.

Teutonic discipline may well mean these barriers work in Germany but if we had them here all they would achieve is a reduction in platform circulation area. Any signs would be ignored by many and would also doubtless be used as perches to be leaned against in lieu of any platform seating. And if the station is unstaffed there is every chance that come evening the local skateboarders will be along challenging themselves against these barriers completely oblivious to the risks they are taking.

As for PEDs they are horribly expensive and only suited to pure metro situations. Even a half-height alternative will be ineffective for the same reasons as above. Crowd control measures are the sensible way forward for us and can be seen working very well not only on LU but also at various stations following special events, etc. And that's assuming that platforms are genuinely as overcrowded as the OP tells us: it could just be that they're not used to London style levels of busyness that's becoming increasingly more common elsewhere.

 

[sprinterguy]

Are the platform buildings at Solihull original, or are they later constructs? I know that the under cover portion of the platforms was cut back substantially when the original canopies were removed (though less so than my one-time local station of Acocks Green which but for a bus shelter is now completely exposed!), but I wonder if the buildings are the result of a 1960s rationalisation: I often note that the 1960s rebuild of my nowadays local station of Macclesfield, another station that sees it's share of through trains, and others rebuilt during the same era created designs that do little to aid passenger dispersal; with a single constricted entrance/exit, narrow platforms and very limited protection from the elements that encourage passengers to huddle beneath the limited canopies that closely surround the station building and little else. Short additional sections of canopy have sometimes been added to these sorts of stations in retrospect and I wondered whether Solihull fitted that mould.

 

[Darkinsider]

Buildings on Solihull Platforms are modern buildlngs, circa 60/70's. It's an island platform and very little room from Yellow line to the buildings. Line Speeds are 90 mph.

Biggest problem is also the same issue as Moor Street (Both run by Chiltern Railway), unlike London Midland Chiltern don't announce the train length resulting in people congregating around the Stairwell / buildings. Commuters are very good at learning train lengths but every busy period still has large numbers of unfamiliar congregators.

A message about train length and perhaps a little education about carriage stop signs would go a long way but is clearly no where near a magic bullet due to train vehicle lengths differences. (all trains that stop at Solihull on a regular basis are C3 (23m) I believe)

 

[ChrisHogan]

I find it hard to believe that the platform at Solihull is so crowded that its is impossible to stand behind the yellow line. The fact that you talk about "squashing up against the walls" confirms to me that the problem is actually people crowding around the entrance and station buildings and not moving further down the platform.

As to the nonsense about an almost empty train going to Whitlocks End, I would love to know how you expect a train to form a Birmingham-bound service without going out to the 'country' starting station in the first place.

Trains to Whitlocks End don't go through Solihull. Whitlocks End is on the North Warwickshire line not on the Didcot to Chester line.

As far as Solihull is concerned the platforms at Solihull are far better than 15 years ago; when Chiltern wanted to extend the platforms back to 8-cars, CT, who was still the SFO at that point, insisted that NRIL levelled and brought them up to standard to produce compliant platform stepping distances.

There is only a problem with passing Voyagers or freight trains if passengers insist on congregating around the entrance, if they walk either way along the platforms there is plenty of room to stand on the platform well away from the tactiles and yellow lines.

 

[sprinterguy]

Buildings on Solihull Platforms are modern buildlngs, circa 60/70's.

Ah, I suspected as much, thanks for confirming that.

 

[sprinterguy]

Biggest problem is also the same issue as Moor Street (Both run by Chiltern Railway), unlike London Midland Chiltern don't announce the train length resulting in people congregating around the Stairwell / buildings. Commuters are very good at learning train lengths but every busy period still has large numbers of unfamiliar congregators.

A message about train length and perhaps a little education about carriage stop signs would go a long way but is clearly no where near a magic bullet due to train vehicle lengths differences. (all trains that stop at Solihull on a regular basis are C3 (23m) I believe)

Yes, a straightforward solution requiring minimal outlay: Encouraging passenger dispersal along the length of the platform the train will call at based on simple communication of train length would certainly help relieve congestion around platform entrances. London Midland are already very good at this as you state, and Intercity West Coast were ahead of the curve with their coloured platform 'zones', since superceded by Virgin West Coast's recent numbered ones.

 

[6Gman]

There is only a problem with passing Voyagers or freight trains if passengers insist on congregating around the entrance, if they walk either way along the platforms there is plenty of room to stand on the platform well away from the tactiles and yellow lines.

This. Just walk down the platform a bit. Plenty of room.

 

[PHILIPE]

The screens at Cardiff Central and Queen St show "During Busy Periods, please spread out along the platform " so far as Cardiff Valley trains are concerned.

 

[4973]

unlike London Midland Chiltern don't announce the train length resulting in people congregating around the Stairwell / buildings.

This is strange, as a few years ago they included this information in the PIS displays. I noticed they had stopped doing so but could not say when as I don't use Chiltern very often these days.

 

[sheff1]

Trains to Whitlocks End don't go through Solihull.

I have never suggested they did. I don't think anyone else has either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is strange, as a few years ago they included this information in the PIS displays. I noticed they had stopped doing so but could not say when as I don't use Chiltern very often these days.

That's somewhat of a downgrade if they have. LM provide this information and keep it accurate, and it is very useful.

 

[Parallel]

The screens at Cardiff Central and Queen St show "During Busy Periods, please spread out along the platform " so far as Cardiff Valley trains are concerned.

Followed by a 2 car 150 rolling in