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Steam heat query

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kermit

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Never occurred to me that a thread about the technical application of steam heating would lead to discussion about the application of such technology in an evil, constitutionally racist regime.

Every day a school day.
 
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kermit

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Were there ever any DMUs with steam heat?

Surely not - the easy availability of hot coolant from the engines under the floors to heat radiators would obviate that - though I do wonder about unpowered trailers within dmu sets - was coolant piped through to them?
 

AndrewE

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Were there ever any DMUs with steam heat?
I don't think so. They were fitted with horrible fuel-burning heaters that were also used on boats (and maybe even planes.) Smiths heaters?
Anyway, they burned the engine fuel which was gas oil with a very high sulphur content. If you boarded a DMU that had been sat in a bay platform - even worse a single-track bay like the south-facing one at Derby - the heating air inlet (under the frames too) had been drawing the sulphur-dioxide laden exhaust in and pumping it in to the saloon. Pretty poisonous and very noticeable! I wonder whether a trip to the SVR or another railway with authentic stock and a terminal platform is required (just for research purposes, you understand!)
Just before the end of first-generation DMUs I worked on replacement saloon heaters that worked off the engine coolant, like car heaters. I think they were copying the Sprinter set-up to get away from the original kit.

p.s. Kermit I think even non-motored trailer cars had them, together with the necessary fuel tank! I think they fitted jumper hoses to get coolant to the unpowered trailers in the trial I was involved in, which I think was on the Cumbrian coast.
 

kermit

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I don't think so. They were fitted with horrible fuel-burning heaters that were also used on boats (and maybe even planes.) Smiths heaters?
Anyway, they burned the engine fuel which was gas oil with a very high sulphur content. If you boarded a DMU that had been sat in a bay platform - even worse a single-track bay like the south-facing one at Derby - the heating air inlet (under the frames too) had been drawing the sulphur-dioxide laden exhaust in and pumping it in to the saloon. Pretty poisonous and very noticeable! I wonder whether a trip to the SVR or another railway with authentic stock and a terminal platform is required (just for research purposes, you understand!)
Just before the end of first-generation DMUs I worked on replacement saloon heaters that worked off the engine coolant, like car heaters. I think they were copying the Sprinter set-up to get away from the original kit.

p.s. Kermit I think even non-motored trailer cars had them, together with the necessary fuel tank! I think they fitted jumper hoses to get coolant to the unpowered trailers in the trial I was involved in, which I think was on the Cumbrian coast.

Gosh! This whole business of keeping passengers warm is more involved than I ever imagined! The dmu heaters you describe sound like the Eberspacher or Webasto units sometimes installed in camper vans or boats. Until they catch fire....
 

hexagon789

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Were there ever any DMUs with steam heat?

Not sure if there were any in Britain so equipped, but in Ireland the CIÉ Class 2600 DMUS , built between about 1951-55 had steam heating. Irish Rail also operated Cravens coaches which were steam heated and vacuum braked until about 2006 I believe.
 

AndrewE

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The dmu heaters you describe sound like the Eberspacher or Webasto units sometimes installed in camper vans or boats. Until they catch fire....
Webasto rings a bell, but I'm sure they were Smiths heaters. Maybe both were used...
Bingo! http://www.railcar.co.uk/print/manuals/?type=specific lists
C.E.P.S. 24
Overhaul And Repair of Smiths Combustion Heaters for Diesel Multiple Units
http://www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-120/description
also says
"Heating was by two oil burning Smiths-Webasto combustion heaters!"
a late ps http://www.railcar.co.uk/technology/heaters/ also mentions "Dragonair" heaters - another name from the past!
 
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Taunton

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Not sure if there were any in Britain so equipped, but in Ireland the CIÉ Class 2600 DMUS , built between about 1951-55 had steam heating. Irish Rail also operated Cravens coaches which were steam heated and vacuum braked until about 2006 I believe.
This first generation of CIE dmus had steam heating because they were intended to be run with existing carriages. Only driving power cars were built but they were formed into 4-car sets with two existing vehicles of quite different external appearance, often wooden-panelled, and the diesel cars themselves were wooden framed. They were built by AEC in Southall, with Park Royal (owned by AEC) bodies, and in general concept were based on the old GWR railcars, including the mu controls (just a few of the GW cars had multiple controls as well; I don't recall how they were heated). Sometimes, especially on an 8-car express formation such as Dublin to Cork, one was a restaurant car. The existing vehicles had mu wiring installed, but some formations included carriages without this, so they were attached at the rear and had to be shunted at termini. This makes me think that the Western Region used to do this with their dmus as well in early times, tacking a (commonly Hawksworth corridor) hauled coach onto the back of a 6-car formation on runs like Birmingham to Cardiff. How were they heated? Possibly they only did so in the summer.

As time went on all sorts of rebuilding and adaptation of the CIE cars took place, and eventually there were hardly two cars that were the same.
 

edwin_m

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According to this link, three Hawksworths were converted to DMU centre cars complete with relevant wiring and a second vacuum pipe, though it doesn't say whether this was a true two-pipe vacuum brake or just a second through pipe, nor how they were heated. This doesn't of course rule out other Hawksworths being used unmodified as trailing loads.

http://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/hawksworth-coaches/
 

Taunton

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I wasn't actually thinking about those specifically converted coaches, which were done "properly", dmu livery and everything, but loose coaches, generally a second class corridor, tacked on the back. It needed a full 2x3-car formation to handle this.
 
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