Carmont (near Stonehaven) derailment - 12 August 2020

[2HAP]

If anyone has any issue with the Wikipedia article, I concur with others that the best thing to do is use the appropriate procedures put in place by Wikipedia, which is to use the 'Talk' feature on there.

The question over whether or not Wikipedia should allow articles on ongoing incidents is something that could be debated here, but it's a much wider issue, so I'd suggest creating a new thread in General Discussion if anyone wishes to debate that further.

I've taken up the invitation. Thread at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wikipedia-and-breaking-news-stories.207697/

 

[dubscottie]

Going by the pictures of the scene, it must have been heading north going by where the sun is hitting/shadows etc.

 

[Swanny200]

In these sorts of conditions with water being above the rail in some parts this morning, would there have been a reduced speed limit set in the rulebook or would it be driver discretion (I am not for one second saying the driver is at fault as it is obvious that it is not). I am also assuming that there would have been adhesion factors to play with too?

 

[grumpyoldman01]

BBC News just reported about 20 on train - and that BT Police media briefing expected in about an hour

 

[Chriso]

BTP have issued a statement

https://media.btp.police.uk/r/17325/three_people_have_sadly_died_following_train_dera

British Transport Police (BTP) were called to the line in Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire at 09.43am this morning (12 August) following a report that a train travelling from Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street had derailed.

Officers remain on scene this afternoon alongside the ambulance service, fire brigade and colleagues from Police Scotland.
Very sadly despite the best efforts of paramedics, we can confirm that three people have been pronounced dead at the scene.
While formal identification is yet to take place, the driver of the train is very sadly believed to have died. His family have been informed and are being supported by specially trained family liaison officers.

Officers are continuing to work to inform the families of the other two people who sadly died.

Six people have been taken to hospital to be treated for injuries, which thankfully are not believed to be serious.

Chief Superintendent Eddie Wylie said: “This is a tragic incident and first and foremost our thoughts are with the families and friends of those who have very sadly died this morning.

“We remain on scene alongside our emergency service colleagues, and a major incident operation has been underway. I would like to reassure the public that this was not a busy service, and from CCTV enquiries and witness statements we believe all passengers have been accounted for. However, once the area has been made safe then a full and thorough search will be conducted, which is likely to take some time.

“I know many people will understandably have questions, and we will be working closely alongside the Rail Accident Investigation Branch and the Office of Rail and Road to establish the full circumstances of how the train came to derail.”

 

[bicbasher]

After seeing the pictures, I'm stunned with shock. Condolences to all involved.

 

[Class195]

Three people have died.

My thoughts are with their family and friends.

Harrowing.

 

[snookertam]

The journalists aren’t rail experts and are under pressure to get the reports out. Yes accuracy is important but given the fast moving nature of the incident they will get details wrong. Probably the first time they’ve had to consider the formation of a train.

 

[68000]

The train was travelling south when NR got a report of a landslip south of Carmont, the decision was made to turn the train back north on the Up line (wrong road) and across the points to the Down line (right road) at Carmont SB. It was heading to Stonehaven when it hit something / something gave way and the train derailed about a mile from Carmont SB

 

[spark001uk]

So sad to see BTP has just confirmed three fatalities, including driver. My sincere condolences go out to the families, and all those involved.
I guess the only light in this is how the virus, and indeed the Aberdeen lockdown, has kept passenger numbers down.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

BBC reporting that Grant Shapps will be visiting the site tomorrow.
Rail is not wholly devolved to Scotland and the investigation by RAIB will be on his watch.

 

[Tobi_Wan]

BTP have issued a statement

BTP | Three people have sadly died following train derailment - Scotland

Three people have sadly died following train derailment - Scotland

media.btp.police.uk

Tragic. Thoughts and all my prayers to those deceased and injured.

Like everything right now the following is an assumption - however it seems MK3's did help protect the 6 injured from worse injury, especially after looking at the horrific photos from the scene. A small silver lining in an utterly horrific event.

 

[Mathew S]

BTP have now confirmed three fatalities:

Three dead after passenger train derails near Stonehaven

The driver, a conductor and a passenger were killed in the incident in Aberdeenshire.

www.bbc.co.uk

Three people have died after a passenger train derailed in Aberdeenshire.
A major incident was declared and about 30 emergency service vehicles were called to the scene near Stonehaven.
It is thought the train hit a landslide after heavy rain and thunderstorms which caused flooding and travel disruption across Scotland.
The incident involved the 06:38 ScotRail service from Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street.
British Transport Police said: "Very sadly, despite the best efforts of paramedics, we can confirm that three people have been pronounced dead at scene."

EDIT: Also confirmed by BTP that one of the fatalities is believed to be the driver.
[URL]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774[/URL]

Three people, including the driver, have been pronounced dead at the scene of the train derailment in Stonehaven, in Aberdeenshire, and six people have been taken to hospital, British Transport Police said.

What a horrific incident.

 

[Desiro360]

A terrible tragedy. Thoughts are with those deceased and injured.

 

[Alanko]

Like everything right now the following is an assumption - however it seems MK3's did help protect the 6 injured from worse injury, especially after looking at the horrific photos from the scene. A small silver lining in an utterly horrific event.

Not the first time I've heard the robustness of the MK3s mentioned. Looking at the photo of the three MK3s straddling the tracks, with one either inverted or crushed down to the window line, is it possible that they were arranged like this following some initial recovery work?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The journalists aren’t rail experts and are under pressure to get the reports out. Yes accuracy is important but given the fast moving nature of the incident they will get details wrong. Probably the first time they’ve had to consider the formation of a train.

Probably since Polmont sadly

 

[Jamesrob637]

My thoughts are with the deceased, injured and their families and friends too. This would be the first fatal UK rail crash in terms of on-train passengers since the Grayrigg accident in 2007. 13 and a half years ago.

 

[irish_rail]

Reported the Guard among the dead. RIP

 

[GB]

Not the first time I've heard the robustness of the MK3s mentioned. Looking at the photo of the three MK3s straddling the tracks, with one either inverted or crushed down to the window line, is it possible that they were arranged like this following some initial recovery work?

Recovery work won't start untill the search and rescue is finished and RAIB have done their thing. The arrangements in the photos are how they ended up.

 

[scotrail158713]

Just catching up with this now. Tragic.
My thoughts go out to all affected.

 

[trebor79]

Not the first time I've heard the robustness of the MK3s mentioned. Looking at the photo of the three MK3s straddling the tracks, with one either inverted or crushed down to the window line, is it possible that they were arranged like this following some initial recovery work?

Absolutely no chance. It's going to take hours if not days to get suitable lifting equipment in place to start moving anything.
I'm certain as well that when reovery starts they won't just be tossing coaches on top of other coaches. That just makes a bigger mess and damages any evidence that investigators might want to collect.
What you see in the photos is how they ended up when everything stopped moving. The bottom one is inverted and everything above the window line and below the sole bar appears to have been torn away. There's another inverted but seemingly intact coach on top of it.
Horrifying.

 

[de525ma]

Live helicopter pictures just on Sky News - could not even see the (leading presumably) loco.

 

[The_Train]

I'd maintained the hope that there would be no fatalities, even though having seen the photos etc it was looking increasingly unlikely. So sad to now hear the confirmation that 3 have lost their lives. Condolences to those families that are being impacted by this in the worst possible way

 

[Tobi_Wan]

Not the first time I've heard the robustness of the MK3s mentioned. Looking at the photo of the three MK3s straddling the tracks, with one either inverted or crushed down to the window line, is it possible that they were arranged like this following some initial recovery work?

I doubt there'd be a crane or winch on site by the time those photos were taken. I'd assume that's as they lay after the incident. Harrowing to say the least.

 

[43066]

Absolutely heartbreaking news.

My thoughts are with all those involved, and with the families of the deceased.

 

[skawtish]

seems to me like network rail, or possibly a contractor must have been working in the vicinity. if you look at the images showing the lined up emergency vehicles you can see there is already metal sheeting down on the ground, a dumper and a port-a-loo. and in one of the images from the scene of the accident you can see a telehandler in the background.

 

[Royston Vasey]

One coach definitely fire damaged, looking at Sky News live aerial footage

 

[py_megapixel]

This is absolutely dreadful.

Have all of the passengers and staff now been found, either living or deceased?

 

[w0033944]

Awful situation, and it's difficult to imagine how it could hae been entirely prevented, though it might be interesting to find out in the eventual RAIB report how quickly the train was moving - in an area with that sort of topography where a train has had to reverse due to a landslip, perhaps "dead slow" running might need to be enforced to reduce the loading on embankents that might well be weakened. R.I.P. to those who have died.

 

[Chris M]

This would appear to be the deadliest rail accident in Scotland since Newton in July 1991 where 4 died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(South_Lanarkshire)_rail_accident and prior to that Polmont in 1984 when 13 lost their lives.

This is absolutely dreadful.

Have all of the passengers and staff now been found, either living or deceased?

The BTP believe so, see their statement quoted a few posts above (post #336)