Stopping short at traffic lights

[D365]

I'm not sure if this has always been commonplace - however since 2020 I've noticed that, at traffic lights, more and more drivers are stopping short of the white line at traffic lights. If at the front of a queue, I was always taught to pull up at the white line, only stopping short where a cycle box exists. Is this not the correct behaviour?

It's incredibly frustrating at junctions with a right-turn lane signalled separately. There's instances where I have been prevented from accessing a right turn, due to one or several vehicles stopped short in the forward direction.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you pull up and stop too close to the white line at red traffic lights, in certain vehicles, you can't then always easily see when the lights have changed back to green, particularly so if it's say a left turn only arrow that's just been illuminated, and straight ahead is still showing red.

 

[DelW]

I'm not sure if this has always been commonplace - however since 2020 I've noticed that, at traffic lights, more and more drivers are stopping short of the white line at traffic lights. If at the front of a queue, I was always taught to pull up at the white line, only stopping short where a cycle box exists. Is this not the correct behaviour?

It's incredibly frustrating at junctions with a right-turn lane signalled separately. There's instances where I have been prevented from accessing a right turn, due to one or several vehicles stopped short in the forward direction.

I think you're correct to pull up to the line (or the back of the cycle box). The induction loops* which detect the presence of waiting traffic are normally close to the stop line, so by stopping short, the signal controller may not be made aware of a queue building up until it reaches a loop further back (if indeed there is a second one at all). So stopping short is likely to delay the green phase starting.

For similar reasons it's generally better to drive up to temporary traffic lights reasonably briskly. These may use microwave detectors which may not react to a vehicle approaching too slowly.

*(You can often see where they are by the cut marks in the surface from when they were installed).

 

[Basil Jet]

I'm not sure if this has always been commonplace - however since 2020 I've noticed that, at traffic lights, more and more drivers are stopping short of the white line at traffic lights. If at the front of a queue, I was always taught to pull up at the white line, only stopping short where a cycle box exists. Is this not the correct behaviour?

It's incredibly frustrating at junctions with a right-turn lane signalled separately. There's instances where I have been prevented from accessing a right turn, due to one or several vehicles stopped short in the forward direction.

A couple of swift beeps is called for, or flashing lights after dark.

 

[SargeNpton]

I'm not sure if this has always been commonplace - however since 2020 I've noticed that, at traffic lights, more and more drivers are stopping short of the white line at traffic lights. If at the front of a queue, I was always taught to pull up at the white line, only stopping short where a cycle box exists. Is this not the correct behaviour?

It's incredibly frustrating at junctions with a right-turn lane signalled separately. There's instances where I have been prevented from accessing a right turn, due to one or several vehicles stopped short in the forward direction.

Increasingly common behaviour, which I think is due to modern car design. In my car the aerodynamics of the bodywork mean that I can't see the extremities of the car, either ahead or behind.

For those without the spatial awareness of where the hidden bits of the car are, they tend to overcompensate at lights and in traffic queues, just to ensure that they are not over the white line or not about to bump into the car in front.

 

[birchesgreen]

Don't forget being just over the white line is technically jumping the lights and you can be done for it (does being on the line also count?), i understand why people play it safe if they arn't sure.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Increasingly common behaviour, which I think is due to modern car design. In my car the aerodynamics of the bodywork mean that I can't see the extremities of the car, either ahead or behind.

For those without the spatial awareness of where the hidden bits of the car are, they tend to overcompensate at lights and in traffic queues, just to ensure that they are not over the white line or not about to bump into the car in front.

Often by at least half a car length and sometimes more!

 

[Ken H]

Don't forget being just over the white line is technically jumping the lights and you can be done for it (does being on the line also count?), i understand why people play it safe if they arn't sure.

people do it at stop/give way junctions too. how they can see properly to see when its safe to pull out I dont know.

 

[Efini92]

One that annoys me is people who swing out before making a turn, when they could easily have just turned the steering wheel in the direction they needed to go.

 

[edwin_m]

Increasingly common behaviour, which I think is due to modern car design. In my car the aerodynamics of the bodywork mean that I can't see the extremities of the car, either ahead or behind.

Not just aerodynamics. A sloping front is much less damaging if hitting a pedestrian or cyclist.

 

[AlterEgo]

One that annoys me is people who swing out before making a turn, when they could easily have just turned the steering wheel in the direction they needed to go.

Yes, people think they're driving an articulated lorry sometimes. A bit mad!

 

[PeterC]

One that annoys me is people who swing out before making a turn, when they could easily have just turned the steering wheel in the direction they needed to go.

And that inconveniences you how?

 

[Efini92]

And that inconveniences you how?

On a two lane road it’s pretty obvious….

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes, people think they're driving an articulated lorry sometimes. A bit mad!

Modern cars with their higher bonnets make judging clearances a lot harder. Its taken me a while to adjust to my new one to be honest.

 

[PeterC]

On a two lane road it’s pretty obvious….

You hadn't mentioned being obstructed or delayed, just being annoyed by it being done.

 

[Howardh]

Modern cars with their higher bonnets make judging clearances a lot harder. Its taken me a while to adjust to my new one to be honest.

My driving lessons were in a Ford Zephyr 6 where the bonnet alone seemed longer that the rest of the car! Had to learn how to judge distances very quickly!! Not sure, but I think the engine also included the spare wheel in there - anyone??

 

[birchesgreen]

My driving lessons were in a Ford Zephyr 6 where the bonnet alone seemed longer that the rest of the car! Had to learn how to judge distances very quickly!! Not sure, but I think the engine also included the spare wheel in there - anyone??

My first car (a Lada) had a long bonnet too though i forgot the acquired skills rather quickly when i moved to smaller nosed cars. The bonnet was long because the engine was longitudinal not transverse.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Better that they stop (and apply the handbrake and put gear in neutral) comfortably behind the line. Especially when "people" (walkers, cyclists) want to cross.

I can not see anything "incredibly frustrating" in a few seconds delay, or even in a delay of a whole light sequence (2 minutes?)

 

[birchesgreen]

Better that they stop (and apply the handbrake and put gear in neutral) comfortably behind the line. Especially when "people" (walkers, cyclists) want to cross.

I can not see anything "incredibly frustrating" in a few seconds delay, or even in a delay of a whole light sequence (2 minutes?)

I dunno some people seem to hate wasting even a single second, a few months ago someone made a fairly risky overtake of me over a canal bridge (so no visibiity what was coming the other way) as i was "only" going at the speed limit. They then, a few 100m ahead, drove into and parked in a company car park. They literally got there about 5 or 6 seconds earlier than if they hadn't overtaken me. Time is money obviously.

 

[PeterC]

My first car (a Lada) had a long bonnet too though i forgot the acquired skills rather quickly when i moved to smaller nosed cars. The bonnet was long because the engine was longitudinal not transverse.

With the advantage that there was a lot of empty space and it was fairly easy to get at most components. The disadvantage was the frequency with which you needed access.

 

[DelW]

My driving lessons were in a Ford Zephyr 6 where the bonnet alone seemed longer that the rest of the car! Had to learn how to judge distances very quickly!! Not sure, but I think the engine also included the spare wheel in there - anyone??

Mark 4 Zephyrs and Zodiacs had very long bonnets but short V4 or V6 engines, which meant lots of unused space up front. I believe they did have their spare wheels mounted in front of the engine.

I once owned a mark 1 Capri (also a long bonnet) with the 2 litre V4 engine. The radiator was about two feet back from the grille, with nothing but some sheet metal filling the empty space.

 

[jfollows]

I don't stop short when I'm at the front of the queue for traffic lights, but if I'm in the queue then I deliberately leave a slight gap between myself and the car in front. It gives me a slight extra safety zone if someone drives into the back of me.

 

[NoRoute]

I'm sure at least part of this is due to the very poor state of road markings and our roads in general, there's a lot of traffic lights where the condition is so poor that stopping is an exercise is trying to determine where the white line originally was.

 

[philthetube]

One that annoys me is people who swing out before making a turn, when they could easily have just turned the steering wheel in the direction they needed to go.

I once rode in a car with a bloke who was a bus driver and hardly ever drove small vehicles, he was a nightmare for this,

My driving lessons were in a Ford Zephyr 6 where the bonnet alone seemed longer that the rest of the car! Had to learn how to judge distances very quickly!! Not sure, but I think the engine also included the spare wheel in there - anyone??

, correct, I bet they burnt well!!!

 

[Bikeman78]

It's incredibly frustrating at junctions with a right-turn lane signalled separately. There's instances where I have been prevented from accessing a right turn, due to one or several vehicles stopped short in the forward direction.

Yes I can think of a junction like this. The lights normally change quite quickly when someone want to turn right. One day I was very surprised to see a queue of about 20 vehicles. After a few seconds I got bored and moved into the next lane and up to the front of the queue. The leading car had stopped about five metres short, so they would never change. I pointed this out to the driver and then nipped in front of him and the lights changed straightaway.

 

[D365]

I can not see anything "incredibly frustrating" in a few seconds delay, or even in a delay of a whole light sequence (2 minutes?)

The frustration is when I want to access a right turn lane (green), but am stuck behind cars in the "straight ahead" lanes with car-lengths between each other.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Don't forget being just over the white line is technically jumping the lights and you can be done for it (does being on the line also count?), i understand why people play it safe if they arn't sure.

The exact law is fairly vague, it's section 36 of the Road Traffic Act:

, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence

Road Traffic Act 1988

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

In practice the sensors for red light cameras are a small distance away from the stop line so they won't be triggered by stopping on or just over the line and I've followed a motoring legal forum for a while (PePiPoo) and not seen anyone stopped by the police for being slightly over the line. Also if the vehicle is stationary over the line while the light is red, no offence is committed as long as the light wasn't red when the line was crossed.

 

[birchesgreen]

In practice the sensors for red light cameras are a small distance away from the stop line so they won't be triggered by stopping on or just over the line and I've followed a motoring legal forum for a while (PePiPoo) and not seen anyone stopped by the police for being slightly over the line. Also if the vehicle is stationary over the line while the light is red, no offence is committed as long as the light wasn't red when the line was crossed.

I know someone who was prosecuted for moving slightly over the line (they edged forward to let an ambulance through). Maybe rare but can happen.

 

[Pugwash]

The frustration is when I want to access a right turn lane (green), but am stuck behind cars in the "straight ahead" lanes with car-lengths between each other.

I am of the opinion if someone wants to pay for my car, VED and Insurance then they can tell me how to drive, until that point as long as it is within the law and Highway Code it is fine.

 

[D365]

I am of the opinion if someone wants to pay for my car, VED and Insurance then they can tell me how to drive, until that point as long as it is within the law and Highway Code it is fine.

Fair enough. I’m not telling anyone how they should be driving. Just trying to understand the mindset of why >car-length gaps have seemingly now become necessary (and not in the past).