Stupid mistake claiming shorter fare - ATW (HELP)

[Jamo04]

Hi All.

I made a stupid mistake in trying to claim a shorter fare and caught out!

As this event was on a Saturday, there was no ticket purchasing facilities available at Severn Tunnel Station during my time at the station. I proceeded to board the train with the intention to purchase the tickets via an officer on-board the train. When travelling from Seven Tunnel Junction, the train was busy and there was no officer that I could see on board to purchase a ticket from.

Next part of my journey I changed from Cardiff Central to Queens Street to get to Cardiff Bay. Once arriving in Cardiff Central & Queen Street, we were quickly ushered to the correct Platforms due to the high volume of traffic travelling down to the bay for the Champions League Final festival. Once arriving in Cardiff Bay, there was a cue to get tickets for travelers that haven’t purchased yet, of which I joined. Once prompted on where I had traveled from, I replied Cardiff Queen Street as I had just arrived from Cardiff Queen Street to get to Cardiff Bay.

This was 2 months ago now and i have only just received a letter about it! I have written a large apologetic letter and explaining the situation and what i had done was wrong. I have put in the letter settlement out of court would be my preferred option as i will lose my job if i get criminal record and looking to go apply for a mortgage for my first home (im 24) if i was dragged to court!

All i want to know is if this is likely to happen and how other peoples experiences have been since sending off your mitigation?

Reassurance and advise would be great here as im well and truely thinking my life is over!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Your life is not over...

TOCs can take up to 6 months to process paperwork. Did you offer a settlement figure in your letter?

 

[najaB]

I have put in the letter settlement out of court would be my preferred option as i will lose my job if i get criminal record and looking to go apply for a mortgage for my first home (im 24) if i was dragged to court!

All i want to know is if this is likely to happen and how other peoples experiences have been since sending off your mitigation?

Reassurance and advise would be great here as im well and truely thinking my life is over!

Your life is not over.

The absolute worst that could happen would be a prosecution under the Regulation of Railways Act § 5.3. This would carry a fine of up to £1,000 and the conviction would be visible on a DBS check for 12 months. Very few if any employers would terminate someone's employment for a prosecution for what is essentially a misdemeanour.

Now that we've got the worst possible case out of the way...

What is *much* more likely to happen, assuming that this is a first offence, is ATW will accept your offer to settle out of court for a low three-digit amount.

 

[island]

Why didn’t you buy a ticket from the guard on the Cardiff Bay train?

 

[Merseysider]

Why didn’t you buy a ticket from the guard on the Cardiff Bay train?

It's a 3 minute journey, and if the OP's account of a 'high volume of traffic' is to be believed, it's unlikely there'd have been an opportunity.

Jamo04, providing you are entirely truthful henceforth, and pay any settlement if offered, this probably won't have a lasting negative effect on your career, as najaB points out, although it may hurt your pocket.

A ballpark figure for such a settlement would be in the £80-£120 range, although this is not guaranteed.

And needless to say, don't do it again.

 

[Jamo04]

Your life is not over...

TOCs can take up to 6 months to process paperwork. Did you offer a settlement figure in your letter?

Yes - I advised settlement out of court would be my preferred option but not a particular figure as such

 

[Jamo04]

Why didn’t you buy a ticket from the guard on the Cardiff Bay train?

There was a guard on the train but the train was so busy due to the Champions League Festival, it was a train full of sardines! Couldn't move!

 

[Jamo04]

It's a 3 minute journey, and if the OP's account of a 'high volume of traffic' is to be believed, it's unlikely there'd have been an opportunity.

Jamo04, providing you are entirely truthful henceforth, and pay any settlement if offered, this probably won't have a lasting negative effect on your career, as najaB points out, although it may hurt your pocket.

A ballpark figure for such a settlement would be in the £80-£120 range, although this is not guaranteed.

And needless to say, don't do it again.

Really not worried about the money to be honest. Just want it gone and settled! Stressed out of about it and having a few sleepless nights! You guys may feel I'm over exaggerating here but you just never know, is out of my hands! I will happily pay that sum as mentioned about to make it disappear!

 

[Gareth Marston]

This is almost a carbon copy of a thread that we had a few weeks back involving South Wales short faring.

Thankfully the OP realizes how silly hes been. Trying to save yourself all of £7.00 has ended up costing him a lot more.

Unfortunately its endemic in South Wales and does need a few high profile court cases to get the message out.

 

[Jamo04]

This is almost a carbon copy of a thread that we had a few weeks back involving South Wales short faring.

Thankfully the OP realizes how silly hes been. Trying to save yourself all of £7.00 has ended up costing him a lot more.

Unfortunately its endemic in South Wales and does need a few high profile court cases to get the message out.

Hi Gareth - thanks for your reply but that is not filling me with much confidence. I know i have done wrong and it will not happen again, just looking for advise is all.

 

[cuccir]

looking to go apply for a mortgage for my first home (im 24) if i was dragged to court!

Are you applying for a mortgage now? If so, then you can truthfully apply saying that you have not been convicted of anything.

In the worst case scenario, you will have a conviction on your record for 12 months. That means that 12 months + 1 day after your conviction, you could apply without revealing it and it should not affect any application. In other words: if the process were slow and you were in court in (say) November 2017, you'd be free to apply for mortgages without worry by the end of 2018. It may mean changing plans slightly, but does not mean ending them.

 

[Jamo04]

Are you applying for a mortgage now? If so, then you can truthfully apply saying that you have not been convicted of anything.

In the worst case scenario, you will have a conviction on your record for 12 months. That means that 12 months + 1 day after your conviction, you could apply without revealing it and it should not affect any application. In other words: if the process were slow and you were in court in (say) November 2017, you'd be free to apply for mortgages without worry by the end of 2018. It may mean changing plans slightly, but does not mean ending them.

Not applying for a mortgage immediately, but i will be in the short term future! Im more worried about having a CCJ against me on my credit file permanently?

 

[221129]

Not applying for a mortgage immediately, but i will be in the short term future! Im more worried about having a CCJ against me on my credit file permanently?

It wont be a CCJ....

 

[broadgage]

To add to the points already made, very few employers routinely check if EXISTING employees have acquired a criminal record after being taken on.

Some employers DO however check before employing an applicant.

Therefore if you are convicted, try not to change jobs until a year has elapsed, after which the conviction is spent.

It is however likely that you can settle out of court, which is the private settling of a debt and nothing to do with the court system.

 

[Joe Paxton]

It wont be a CCJ....

Indeed. CCJs are a function of civil law. Railway prosecutions are a matter of criminal law.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not applying for a mortgage immediately, but i will be in the short term future! Im more worried about having a CCJ against me on my credit file permanently?

Hi Jamo04 follow the advice people like najaB have given and you'll probably be ok with an out of court settlement. The key to these things is to engage with them, it makes things easier for them and there more likely to show leniency than someone who ignores them or fights them making stupid points. They've probably got some some clear up rate target to achieve. Going to court means involving Lawyers and they cost £ so they really don't want to be doing it if at all possible. make it easy for them to clear the case.

Further to my point on there being another short fare thread and that somebody should be prosecuted with the details made public as a deterrent. Unfortunately we see a lot of these, there does seem to be a general perception that's it's ok to do this in South Wales but as you and the other people who have come here for advice have found out it isn't! That message has to be got out I suspect it won't be too long before someone ignores the initial letter and / or try's to fight it and ends up in magistrates court. We should see some revenue blockades off the back of the new buy before you board policy soon if ATW are really serious about enforcing it some court cases may come through.

 

[Jamo04]

Thanks all with the advise on CCJ. I work in financing so understand how badly a CCJ can impact your credit score and any future dealings! Glad it will not be a CCJ!

I have written back to TIL with a a letter apologizing and offering to pay costs and settle our of court. I have also emailed ATW with a similar letter apologizing.

Will keep you all updated. Lesson learnt after all this stress and anxiety!

 

[Ashlaarr]

Feel free to inbox me Jamo04 and il be more than happy to help you with responding to TIL or ATW

 

[Jamo04]

RESULT - £74.20 fixed fine and the case has been close.

Just want to say a big thank you to all who helped me out in this situation. Forums like this are life savers for advise and information.

Once again, thanks for all your help and I owe you all a pint!

 

[6Gman]

RESULT - £74.20 fixed fine and the case has been close.

Just want to say a big thank you to all who helped me out in this situation. Forums like this are life savers for advise and information.

Once again, thanks for all your help and I owe you all a pint!

Just to point out this isn't a fine (which can only be imposed by a Court) but a settlement between yourself and the company as an alternative to court.