Subsidies in Northern Ireland

[tbtc]

There were a couple of comments in the "Labour could be planning to allow public sector to bid for franchises" thread, but they've got drowned out in the nationalisation/ Beeching/ party politics arguments...

...so, to keep this separate, does anyone know how the subsidy position for railways in Northern Ireland have changed since railways were privatised in Great Britain in the 1990s?

There's certainly been some investment (redoubling of the line to Derry/Londonderry, new trains...), but have passenger numbers risen sufficiently for the subsidy per passenger mile to fall? Or has the subsidy per passenger mile increased, but at a different rate to the equivalent figure in England/ Scotland/ Wales?

(I'm intending this as a separate thread to avoid the usual arguments about people's utopian solutions for things)

Passenger numbers are also rising in Northern Ireland, where the railways remain in public ownership. It's funny how you always cite the rise in passenger numbers as "proof" of privatisation's success but fail to mention the massive increase in subsidies that taxpayers are contributing to the privatised railway (contrary to Tory promises that subsidies would fall).

Genuine question - has subsidy increased in Norn Iron in the same time period?

A lot of the reasons why railways have become more expensive in Great Britain seem (to me) to be costs that'd have increased regardless of privatisation/ nationalisation (fuel has gone up in price by much more than inflation, the costs of final salary pensions for staff has gone up significantly since the mid'90s when companies were taking "contribution holidays", insurance costs have skyrocketed...).

Whilst I appreciate that privatisation means some money leaving "the industry" and has made some things more complicated (and therefore more expensive), I think that a lot of the costs that have gone up are costs that would have gone up anyway - which is why I'd be interested in whether Northern Ireland's railways have managed to keep subsidies down or not

And what are the subsidies like in Northern Ireland? They added 20 new trains to 26 existing - you would hope for some increase in passenger journeys...

 

[WatcherZero]

Its the highest in the UK and its been rising in recent years with the two bouts of large investment ridership is up, however they havent managed to keep a lid on costs. The bus network is subsidising the rail operations.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/policy/single-view/view/nir-staves-off-closure.html

There was an understanding at the start of the millenium that there was a choice between investment or Beeching style rationalisation moving passengers over to bus services which were cheaper to operate and enjoyed growing usage, proposed cuts were drawn up with the agreement that if the network didnt turn around within a decade they would have to revisit the cuts. The network has produced broadly justifiable results, increasing usage but at the same time massive increases in subsidy required to pay for the huge investment.

Identical process happened south of the border but the results havent been the same and ministers have recently started talking about cuts again as the state cant afford the huge subsidy requirements.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/varadkars-plan-to-close-railways-30151393.html

 

[HSTEd]

I went looking for some statistics for Northern Ireland Railways - I came up with some rather peculiar information.
They seem to do passenger journey and passenger mile counts quarterly rather than annually - but I was able to get soem interesting information.

It appears that Q4 2012-2013 saw a 12% passenger-mile increase over Q4 2011-2012.

Which sounds utterly ridiculous, and I have unfortunately lost the link.
Will keep looking though.

 

[Elwyn]

I went looking for some statistics for Northern Ireland Railways - I came up with some rather peculiar information.
They seem to do passenger journey and passenger mile counts quarterly rather than annually - but I was able to get soem interesting information.

It appears that Q4 2012-2013 saw a 12% passenger-mile increase over Q4 2011-2012.

Which sounds utterly ridiculous, and I have unfortunately lost the link.
Will keep looking though.

Your information about the passenger increases is accurate. NIR have increased the number of services on several lines, with later final trains on the Coleraine line. The new Spanish trains have proved very popular. That combined with increased congestion on the main motorways into Belfast each morning and parking charges in Belfast has meant that passenger usage has increased dramatically.

Many peak hour trains have had to be strengthened to cope with overcrowding. Recent announcements have included proposals to redouble the line from Belfast to Ballymena, to ease congestion, and re-open some long closed lines eg to Armagh & Dungannon. Belfast Gt Victoria St station is to be rebuilt to provide an extra 3 platforms. So yes, passenger numbers are increasing quite significantly.

 

[HSTEd]

I think we would have to wait at least another year before we can draw any subsidy conclusions because capital investment has skewed the figures drastically.
Doubling of the rolling stock fleet and major new operations is rather drastic and will upset the 'equilibrium'.

 

[Elwyn]

Here's a link to a site which gives additional information on the various proposals:

http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/topic/378/Northern-Ireland-Railways?page=38#.U7z0FVYzJ_c

 

[Penmorfa]

Your information about the passenger increases is accurate. NIR have increased the number of services on several lines, with later final trains on the Coleraine line. The new Spanish trains have proved very popular. That combined with increased congestion on the main motorways into Belfast each morning and parking charges in Belfast has meant that passenger usage has increased dramatically.

Many peak hour trains have had to be strengthened to cope with overcrowding. Recent announcements have included proposals to redouble the line from Belfast to Ballymena, to ease congestion, and re-open some long closed lines eg to Armagh & Dungannon. Belfast Gt Victoria St station is to be rebuilt to provide an extra 3 platforms. So yes, passenger numbers are increasing quite significantly.

That is very good news. We had a day out on NIR last week, covering all the lines north of Belfast. Quite a well run system I thought. One thing that surprised me was that Londonderry, the second city, only gets a two hourly service.

 

[johnnychips]

One thing that surprised me was that Londonderry, the second city, only gets a two hourly service.

If you look at a map, the route is like a semicircle compared to a straight line. Trains stop everywhere, and there are many single-track sections, so there is no potential for an express service. Coaches are quicker unless they really get snarled in rush-hour traffic.

The station in Derry is over the river from the main city centre, so you have to faff by either walking ten minutes or taking the (free) bus.

Incidentally, there is free wifi on both coaches and trains. I was very impressed with the integration of NI's public transport, though I expect it does need a considerable subsidy.

 

[Penmorfa]

If you look at a map, the route is like a semicircle compared to a straight line. Coaches are quicker unless they really get snarled in rush-hour traffic.

The station in Derry is over the river from the main city centre, so you have to faff by either walking ten minutes or taking the (free) bus.

Incidentally, there is free wifi on both coaches and trains. I was very impressed with the integration of NI's public transport, though I expect it does need a considerable subsidy.

I know it's a longer route but all the stations were well used, except Balarena in the middle of nowhere. Maybe an hourly service would need extra loops? If anyone is thinking of doing it, a Zone 4 Ilink ticket covers all public transport for a day for a very reasonable £16.50.

 

[johnnychips]

I agree - when I went all trains were very busy, but I think there were two distinct traffic flows, Belfast-Coleraine/Portrush, and Ballymena/Coleraine/Portrush-Londonderry. Through passengers Belfast-Derry on the train must prefer comfort over time; and the coaches are very good.

As for value, a week Zone 4 NI ticket (all buses and trains, no restrictions) must be the best £57 I ever spent.

 

[Elwyn]

One thing that surprised me was that Londonderry, the second city, only gets a two hourly service.

At present there’s no passing loop anywhere between Castlerock and Londonderry and this limits the service to two hourly, save for a couple of trains each day in the same direction which provide a slightly more frequent service. However a passing loop is going to be installed at Bellarena in the next 18 months, together with a new 2 platform station there, which will lead to an hourly service. (The sleepers for the work are already stockpiled at Bellarena station).

Re passenger numbers at Bellarena, it probably owes its continued existence to the nearby prison at Magilligan. There’s a minibus to and from the prison for some trains, for relatives, so there are significant numbers of passengers, but only on certain trains.

 

[Penmorfa]

At present there’s no passing loop anywhere between Castlerock and Londonderry and this limits the service to two hourly, save for a couple of trains each day in the same direction which provide a slightly more frequent service. However a passing loop is going to be installed at Bellarena in the next 18 months, together with a new 2 platform station there, which will lead to an hourly service. (The sleepers for the work are already stockpiled at Bellarena station).

Re passenger numbers at Bellarena, it probably owes its continued existence to the nearby prison at Magilligan. There’s a minibus to and from the prison for some trains, for relatives, so there are significant numbers of passengers, but only on certain trains.

Thanks Elwyn, that's good news. As Coleraine to Belfast is hourly possibly an hourly service to Londonderry from Belfast and a half hourly shuttle Coleraine - Portrush?

 

[James Bond]

NI Railways is an anomaly that I suspect that many of the UK TOCs would like the British public to overlook.

Railway passengers numbers have shown double-digit growth in recent years - the recently published figures for 2013/4 showed that numbers were up by 15%. That's an increase of 92% in a decade.

Ticket prices have remained low: the maximum day return fare is £17.50 (for Newry-L'Derry - a distance of over 130 miles) and you get a one-third discount if you travel after 9.30am. On Sundays, you can even get an all-network day ticket for £7.50.

All the rolling stock on the network is modern and maintained to a high standard. Passenger satisfaction is high - the trains are generally punctual, the staff are helpful and friendly whenever something does go wrong and the rolling stock is generally immaculate in terms of cleanliness (except if you catch a train immediately after end of school).

In terms of the subsidy, the latest year for which financial figures are available (2012/3) indicate that NI Railways got less of a subsidy per passenger mile than Northern Rail and Scotrail. Such figures are a bit unhelpful though as the small size of the NI Railways network means that any form of capital expenditure causes a significant short-term surge in apparent subsidy level.

The one issue facing the company is that passenger growth keeps on outstripping its projections. It is already talking about buying more trains and rebuilding Great Victoria Street to add two additional platforms.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Just come back from a week in Northern Ireland. I did the whole network a couple of years ago (450s were still around and the half hourly turned at Carrick if that helps) but did Londonderry-Coleraine again this time (easily in my top 10 in the UK, possibly top 5). The trains were clean, the staff helpful and it was quite a nice stress-free trip. There had been a blockage on the line when we first tried to do the line earlier in the day, meaning bustitution, so we came back later and everything was fine again, train about 3 down either way but no big deal. The only time hourly running occurs on the Londonderry line from what I can see is during the evening peak, when an extra Londonderry-Coleraine fits in between xx33 Belfasts - we passed the outward at Castlerock, so I'm presuming the new loop is to allow a clockface departure timetable?

It cost three of us £28~ in aggregate IIRC return for the trip, very reasonable (it included the 1/3 off offer). Of course all over 60s get it free too (no restrictions, ditto buses) so that will affect revenues.

Bearing in mind you have rolling stock on the classic network all less than five or so years old (C4Ks are about three?) with reasonable services networkwide (half-hourly for what you could consider the Belfast urban sprawl - Portadown, Bangor and Whitehead), and hourly out to Antrim, Ballymena, Coleraine and Portrush, the only huge gap remaining is Londonderry, which will be resolved soon.

I suppose the only things left to argue would be half-hourly to Colraine (not easy I'd guess?), something via Crumlin for the International Airport and Lisburn-Antrim area traffic, and semi-fasts on Bangor-Portadown (which serves all five on NIR's busiest stations - GVS, Central, Bangor, Lisburn and Lurgan, in that order).

 

[HSTEd]

You also have to remember that the population density of Northern Ireland puts it in the same category as the territories served by Northern and similar.

So there is a reason why the subsidies are large.

 

[Elwyn]

The only time hourly running occurs on the Londonderry line from what I can see is during the evening peak, when an extra Londonderry-Coleraine fits in between xx33 Belfasts - we passed the outward at Castlerock, so I'm presuming the new loop is to allow a clockface departure timetable?

I suppose the only things left to argue would be half-hourly to Colraine (not easy I'd guess?), something via Crumlin for the International Airport and Lisburn-Antrim area traffic, and semi-fasts on Bangor-Portadown (which serves all five on NIR's busiest stations - GVS, Central, Bangor, Lisburn and Lurgan, in that order).

The problem with the Castlerock loop is that it’s only a few miles from Coleraine where there is also a loop, so it’s of limited value. The section from Castlerock to Derry is too long to allow an hourly clockface service. Hence the need for a loop midway at Bellarena. At present, apart from trains running out of sequence, the Castlerock loop is only rarely used for trains to pass. When the Bellarena loop opens, the intention is to lift Castlerock loop, which to my mind may be short sighted. But anyway that’s what is reported to be the plan. It’s probably worth mentioning that the service on the Coleraine to Derry line is now the busiest there ever has been, even 100 years ago, albeit that there used to be 2 lines to Derry. Hence the current congestion on what used to be a fairly lightly used line.

I think there is an aspiration to operate half hourly from Belfast to Coleraine but this will need reinstatement of double track between Mossley West and Ballymena, as well as one or two additional loops between Ballymena and Ballymoney. (At the moment, there’s only 1 at Killagan. There used to be a loop at Cullybackey and that has been mentioned as a possible for re-instatement).

I doubt the traffic at Belfast International Airport will ever justify a dedicated train service. The current bus service from the airport to Belfast operates every 20 minutes and there’s no way that a single track branch could ever match that, either in frequency or timings). However there is considerable commuter potential from Crumlin, Glenavy and Ballinderry and so that would be the best area to focus on. The Translink business plan indicates that they are going to look at that as their next major development. (They are about to build a new station on the main Belfast to Portadown line at Lisburn West. This will be at the point where the Lisburn - Antrim branch diverges and will contain a 3rd platform for branch traffic. So that commitment does seem to support their comments for the branch itself). Though closed to regular traffic, the Antrim – Lisburn branch sees a fair amount of diversionary use, often on Sundays when the main line into Belfast is closed for engineering works.

There are some currently semi fasts to Bangor and Portadown at peak times, and Translink are quite good at running extra semi fast services as required (eg in the run up to Christmas).