Suggestions for improving the service on the Wrexham-Bidston line

[Mogz]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-line-inc-possible-franchise-swap-etc.165699/

For almost as long as I can remember we were been promised the integration of the Borderlands line into Merseyrail.

I remember that at some point in the early 1990s it was actually highlighted on Merseyrail maps in green, suggesting it was part of the Wirral Line.

Various plans have come and gone including:

New stations at Beechwood, Woodchurch and Deeside Industrial Park.

Electrification as far as Woodchurch/ Heswall/ Neston/ Shotton/ all the way to Wrexham.

Running diesel services through to Liverpool James Street.

Switching the existing service to half hourly.

Going back to terminating at Birkenhead North for more frequent Liverpool connections.

As it is nothing has changed within my lifetime save for the rolling stock used (I’ve seen 101, 142, 153 and 150 all used in the space of 30 years).

The line has so much potential.

 

[Statto]

Extending to Birkenhead North would need an extra unit, the Wrexham Central-Bidston service currently takes around 58 minutes with 2 units in operation during the day, Evening & Sunday service is more likely to be extended to Birkenhead North with the gap between services.

 

[VT 390]

Extending to Birkenhead North would need an extra unit, the Wrexham Central-Bidston service currently takes around 58 minutes with 2 units in operation during the day, Evening & Sunday service is more likely to be extended to Birkenhead North with the gap between services.

If it can be found wouldn't a 3rd unit be good anyway so that it can become a more reliable service.

 

[Chester1]

Extending to Birkenhead North would need an extra unit, the Wrexham Central-Bidston service currently takes around 58 minutes with 2 units in operation during the day, Evening & Sunday service is more likely to be extended to Birkenhead North with the gap between services.

The variant of the 230s that TfW have ordered are faster accelerating than 150s which will save time. Decent recovery time will make the service much more reliable and attract more passengers. Birkenhead North extension would add 2 minutes and add an element of risk so it probably requires 230s saving 5 minutes or more.

 

[Llandudno]

Isn’t this service going to be 2 trains per hour in the future with alternate trains running semi fast, does this mean four units would be sufficient to run to Birkenhead North with the accrued tune savings of skipping some stations and speedier trains?

 

[PR1Berske]

Isn’t this service going to be 2 trains per hour in the future with alternate trains running semi fast, does this mean four units would be sufficient to run to Birkenhead North with the accrued tune savings of skipping some stations and speedier trains?

That was a proposal which, I think, has been now written in pencil rather than pen.

 

[krus_aragon]

Isn’t this service going to be 2 trains per hour in the future with alternate trains running semi fast, does this mean four units would be sufficient to run to Birkenhead North with the accrued tune savings of skipping some stations and speedier trains?

You're right about the plan for a 2tph service. My impression was that the alternating semi-fast service was to give enough recovery time to make the timetable reasonably robust: there's barely any recovery time at the moment. As an example, today's 14:32 from Wrexham to Bidston set off 18 minutes late. Three hours later, the same unit was still 21 minutes late pulling into Bidston.

It may be that I've got the wrong end of the stick, and the new trains are going to be sprightly enough to create recovery time, and the semi-fast is just a trial of a new service pattern.

On the other hand, an extra fifth diagram for reliability and extension to Birkenhead would be a smaller incremental cost (relatively speaking) than a third diagram on the hourly service.

 

[frodshamfella]

If it can be found wouldn't a 3rd unit be good anyway so that it can become a more reliable service.

Id had thought so and presumably improved frequency.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If it can be found wouldn't a 3rd unit be good anyway so that it can become a more reliable service.

I would assume, if you made any changes to lengthen stopovers to make the service more reliable, you'd pretty much have to extend it to Birkenhead North anyway - because Bidston only has 2 platforms, whereas Birkenhead North has 3. That would mean you can have have an extended dwell at Birkenhead North without blocking Merseyrail trains - which would be problematic at Bidston.

 

[Djgr]

I would assume, if you made any changes to lengthen stopovers to make the service more reliable, you'd pretty much have to extend it to Birkenhead North anyway - because Bidston only has 2 platforms, whereas Birkenhead North has 3. That would mean you can have have an extended dwell at Birkenhead North without blocking Merseyrail trains - which would be problematic at Bidston.

One issue from the days of trains running into Birkenhead North was lack of cross platform interchange in both directions.

 

[VT 390]

One issue from the days of trains running into Birkenhead North was lack of cross platform interchange in both directions.

Is Birkenhead North a step free station? If so wouldn't the better connections to more places and a more reliable service make up for this?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

One issue from the days of trains running into Birkenhead North was lack of cross platform interchange in both directions.

How is that an issue? The trains will still stop at Bidston, so anyone who needs cross-platform interchange would still be able to change there, wouldn't they?

 

[headshot119]

One issue from the days of trains running into Birkenhead North was lack of cross platform interchange in both directions.

Complete none issue

- Passengers for stations to West Kirby get off at Bidston and cross the island to head that way
- Passengers for stations to Liverpool get off at Birkenhead North and either cross the island, or stay on the same part of it to head that way
- Passengers for stations to New Brighton get off at Birkenhead North, having not had to change at Bidston, and head over the far side as they would have to now (Via the lifts if required)

 

[frodshamfella]

Why did this service stop running through to Birkenhead North anyway ? Am I right it used to ?

 

[Dr Hoo]

The service did used to run to Birkenhead North. However, with an end-to-end journey time of a full hour with ‘sprinter’ timings it would have effectively cost an additional unit.

I suspect that it also helped keep accountancy and subsidy a bit ‘tidier’ between Regional Railways and Merseytravel.

 

[Djgr]

Complete none issue

- Passengers for stations to West Kirby get off at Bidston and cross the island to head that way
- Passengers for stations to Liverpool get off at Birkenhead North and either cross the island, or stay on the same part of it to head that way
- Passengers for stations to New Brighton get off at Birkenhead North, having not had to change at Bidston, and head over the far side as they would have to now (Via the lifts if required)

What about passengers from Liverpool to say Heswall? Presumably they need to change platforms?

 

[Djgr]

Why did this service stop running through to Birkenhead North anyway ? Am I right it used to ?

To save money. If I remember correctly the Tories took control of Merseyside County Council briefly around 1976 and slashed public transport. If I remember correctly (and I might not!) Rock Ferry to Chester went to every 90 mins or even every 2 hours?!

 

[Djgr]

The service did used to run to Birkenhead North. However, with an end-to-end journey time of a full hour with ‘sprinter’ timings it would have effectively cost an additional unit.

I suspect that it also helped keep accountancy and subsidy a bit ‘tidier’ between Regional Railways and Merseytravel.

Although I think this predates Regional Railways by a few years (1977?) When the trains ran from Birkenhead North they operated a number of peak trains as far as Heswall and Neston, but all axed in the Tory cuts mentioned above

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What about passengers from Liverpool to say Heswall? Presumably they need to change platforms?

If they are bothered about cross-platform interchange then I'd imagine they'd take a West Kirby train and change at Bidston. Same as now. If they aren't bothered about cross-platform interchange and are happy to change at Birkenhead North, then they get a better choice of trains from Liverpool.

 

[headshot119]

What about passengers from Liverpool to say Heswall? Presumably they need to change platforms?

If they are bothered about cross-platform interchange then I'd imagine they'd take a West Kirby train and change at Bidston. Same as now. If they aren't bothered about cross-platform interchange and are happy to change at Birkenhead North, then they get a better choice of trains from Liverpool.

The signalling setup at Birkenhead North means the trains have to shunt to platform 3 (The Wirral bound platform), before departing, so it's same platform coming on any train from Liverpool.

 

[frodshamfella]

To save money. If I remember correctly the Tories took control of Merseyside County Council briefly around 1976 and slashed public transport. If I remember correctly (and I might not!) Rock Ferry to Chester went to every 90 mins or even every 2 hours?!

Really, thats dreadful !

 

[Dr Hoo]

Just looked at the 1978-9 timetable. The opening of the Wirral Line 'loop' had seen both the West Kirby and New Brighton services step up from every 20 minutes to every 15. The Wrexham trains still ran to Birkenhead North at that stage. I can imagine that the extra shunt moves did nothing to help performance. (There were no short workings to Neston at this stage.)

Worth bearing in mind that the Birkenhead Docks-Seacombe Junction-Bidston-Dee Marsh iron ore trains were still running in those days. With other freight around Dee Marsh performance of the Wrexham trains was a bit patchy and hardly a good fit with the Merseyrail services.

 

[Statto]

Is Birkenhead North a step free station? If so wouldn't the better connections to more places and a more reliable service make up for this?

Birkenhead North was refurbished a couple of years ago, now has lifts to platforms & a P&R

What about passengers from Liverpool to say Heswall? Presumably they need to change platforms?

Passengers for Heswall most likely to get the 471/472 bus direct from Liverpool which is far more frequent than the train

 

[Foxcover]

Birkenhead North was refurbished a couple of years ago, now has lifts to platforms & a P&R



Passengers for Heswall most likely to get the 471/472 bus direct from Liverpool which is far more frequent than the train

Most with access to a car tend to drive to Spital, Green Lane or lift to Hamilton Sq - frequent the bus may be, but it’s painfully slow -nearly an hour...

 

[Dr Hoo]

To save money. If I remember correctly the Tories took control of Merseyside County Council briefly around 1976 and slashed public transport. If I remember correctly (and I might not!) Rock Ferry to Chester went to every 90 mins or even every 2 hours?!

I worked on the Wirral in the late 1970s and the Rock Ferry-Chester service was hourly. There was a separate Rock Ferry-Helsby service that was reduced to a shuttle from Hooton (M-F) in 1979. Didn’t think it was a Merseyside Council decision. Remember that there was a major economic downturn after the oil price shock and significant industrial action. BR’s finances were in a very poor way.

 

[TheSel]

The signalling setup at Birkenhead North means the trains have to shunt to platform 3 (The Wirral bound platform), before departing, so it's same platform coming on any train from Liverpool.

It does now, yes, but when the DMUs regularly terminated there (and for some time after), there was a starter signal and a crossover which facilitated departures towards Wrexham from Platform 2. Presumably the crossover could be reinstated, and the signalling amended to facilitate such a move again - although I guess this would not be as straightforward as it was in the days when control was quite literally under the nose of the signaller in Birkenhead North No 1 box.

 

[Djgr]

I worked on the Wirral in the late 1970s and the Rock Ferry-Chester service was hourly. There was a separate Rock Ferry-Helsby service that was reduced to a shuttle from Hooton (M-F) in 1979. Didn’t think it was a Merseyside Council decision. Remember that there was a major economic downturn after the oil price shock and significant industrial action. BR’s finances were in a very poor way.

When I get a moment I will dig out my scrapbook about this period. Somewhere I also have a (polaroid!) picture of a DMU at Birkenhead North on its last day of operation to Wrexham.

 

[headshot119]

It does now, yes, but when the DMUs regularly terminated there (and for some time after), there was a starter signal and a crossover which facilitated departures towards Wrexham from Platform 2. Presumably the crossover could be reinstated, and the signalling amended to facilitate such a move again - although I guess this would not be as straightforward as it was in the days when control was quite literally under the nose of the signaller in Birkenhead North No 1 box.

It could be amended, but I doubt the cost to benefit ratio stacks up for it.

 

[frodshamfella]

If Merseyrail took over this route could these extra services say twice an hour fit in the loop under Liverpool ? If not maybe it could begin in Birkenhead North. Of course it would ideally want electric installation, and there is never money for things like that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If Merseyrail took over this route could these extra services say twice an hour fit in the loop under Liverpool ? If not maybe it could begin in Birkenhead North. Of course it would ideally want electric installation, and there is never money for things like that.

Until very recent times, had this line been placed in the Merseyrail franchise, it would have seen all its stations placed under the RMT strike threat that affected that particular franchise.