Suicide or trespass incident?

[fowler9]

I know of one who attempted 3 times. Twice the train saw him in the distance and stopped.

On the third occasion he chained himself to the rails inside a tunnel.

Wow, Again I am sorry to hear that and hope the person involved got the help they needed and didn't, in turn, mess up the life of any train crew.

 

[JDi]

And I, in turn, don't get your point.

Are you saying that my hypothetical man on the minimum wage should have no claim on the estate of the person committing suicide, no matter how wealthy they may have been?

Why would he have a claim? I thought that's why TOC's undertook insurance. Surely he would simply fill in a delay repay form and claim back from Network Rail, rather than have any claim to a deceased person's estate.

Would the same principle apply, if it was a first class passenger who had been delayed, attempting to lay claim to the estate of someone who survived on state support. I think not.

The big question here is how can suicides at railways be reduced?

 

[Busaholic]

I worked as a volunteer for the Shelter charity in the 1970s. Our group set up a Housing Aid Centre, open on Saturdays, and on our very first day, first interview, which I was conducting, that first person, on entering the room in the office building we were using, came in and locked the door behind him and put the key in his pocket. Luckily, I don't panic easily and, after two hours (the session was timed for half an hour) I managed to stop the man self-harming (and, perhaps, committing suicide) there and then and, I believe, gave him some hope I could help him with his housing problem, which was, in the terminology, the 'presenting' problem. I cannot after all these years remember all the details, but I did help him get rehoused. He was a very unhappy and lonely man and, I suspect, he may have taken his life at a later stage. I did say, though, that I felt I could handle almost anything in an interview after that, but, of course, it could have been a different matter if he'd carried out his threat.

Suicide/ threat of suicide should not be taken lightly, but trying to penalise someone who fails, or the family/estate of someone who succeeds, is imo wrong-headed on every level.

 

[furnessvale]

Wow, Again I am sorry to hear that and hope the person involved got the help they needed and didn't, in turn, mess up the life of any train crew.

Sadly, on the third occasion he succeeded.

 

[fowler9]

I worked as a volunteer for the Shelter charity in the 1970s. Our group set up a Housing Aid Centre, open on Saturdays, and on our very first day, first interview, which I was conducting, that first person, on entering the room in the office building we were using, came in and locked the door behind him and put the key in his pocket. Luckily, I don't panic easily and, after two hours (the session was timed for half an hour) I managed to stop the man self-harming (and, perhaps, committing suicide) there and then and, I believe, gave him some hope I could help him with his housing problem, which was, in the terminology, the 'presenting' problem. I cannot after all these years remember all the details, but I did help him get rehoused. He was a very unhappy and lonely man and, I suspect, he may have taken his life at a later stage. I did say, though, that I felt I could handle almost anything in an interview after that, but, of course, it could have been a different matter if he'd carried out his threat.

Suicide/ threat of suicide should not be taken lightly, but trying to penalise someone who fails, or the family/estate of someone who succeeds, is imo wrong-headed on every level.

Cheers for sharing that, glad you did what you could. Completely agree with your second paragraph.

 

[fowler9]

Sadly, on the third occasion he succeeded.

Very sad to hear that.

 

[philthetube]

I worked as a volunteer for the Shelter charity in the 1970s. Our group set up a Housing Aid Centre, open on Saturdays, and on our very first day, first interview, which I was conducting, that first person, on entering the room in the office building we were using, came in and locked the door behind him and put the key in his pocket. Luckily, I don't panic easily and, after two hours (the session was timed for half an hour) I managed to stop the man self-harming (and, perhaps, committing suicide) there and then and, I believe, gave him some hope I could help him with his housing problem, which was, in the terminology, the 'presenting' problem. I cannot after all these years remember all the details, but I did help him get rehoused. He was a very unhappy and lonely man and, I suspect, he may have taken his life at a later stage. I did say, though, that I felt I could handle almost anything in an interview after that, but, of course, it could have been a different matter if he'd carried out his threat.

Suicide/ threat of suicide should not be taken lightly, but trying to penalise someone who fails, or the family/estate of someone who succeeds, is imo wrong-headed on every level.

Imagine someone jumps off a bridge in a suicide attempt, lands on someone else, breaking their back lnd leaving them permanently in a wheelchair, there is obviously no insurance available, should they sue or remain unable to afford things which would make their life easier?

 

[175mph]

I've known it be done with a person taken ill on a train/station before...

That happened to me once on a train to Doncaster, the first thing they asked me before asking about why I felt ill was if I can show a ticket for where I'm going.

 

[OneOffDave]

Imagine someone jumps off a bridge in a suicide attempt, lands on someone else, breaking their back lnd leaving them permanently in a wheelchair, there is obviously no insurance available, should they sue or remain unable to afford things which would make their life easier?

I think a law suit would have a fairly low probability of succeeding as you'd have to prove negligence as I presume they weren't aiming to land on someone. Proving negligence in the case of someone who's balance of mind is disturbed to the point of committing suicide would be really difficult.

I'm not sure if you'd qualify for a payment under the criminal injuries compensation scheme as there might not have been a crime committed as the intent to injure is missing.

 

[philthetube]

I think a law suit would have a fairly low probability of succeeding as you'd have to prove negligence as I presume they weren't aiming to land on someone. Proving negligence in the case of someone who's balance of mind is disturbed to the point of committing suicide would be really difficult.

I'm not sure if you'd qualify for a payment under the criminal injuries compensation scheme as there might not have been a crime committed as the intent to injure is missing.

You would be negligent if you jumped off a bridge without checking if there was anyone underneath.

 

[OneOffDave]

You would be negligent if you jumped off a bridge without checking if there was anyone underneath.

You'd only be negligent legally speaking if you were mentally competent at the point of jumping. Given that the individual would be in the process of killing themselves, proving that they were mentally competent enough at the time would be almost impossible.

If you can be sectioned under those circumstances if stopped before you do yourself proper damage then I'd say a case would be highly unlikely to be successful.

 

[furnessvale]

You'd only be negligent legally speaking if you were mentally competent at the point of jumping. Given that the individual would be in the process of killing themselves, proving that they were mentally competent enough at the time would be almost impossible.

If you can be sectioned under those circumstances if stopped before you do yourself proper damage then I'd say a case would be highly unlikely to be successful.

Given that everybody and his uncle would be fiercely attempting to prove that he accidentally fell, in order to avoid the stigma of suicide, that would make for an interesting case.

 

[455driver]

That happened to me once on a train to Doncaster, the first thing they asked me before asking about why I felt ill was if I can show a ticket for where I'm going.

Thats because its not unknown for somebody going to say Doncaster to get on a train at Kings Cross which is first York and then complain about being ill so the train will make an unscheduled stop at Doncaster for them, once off the train and in the ambulance they make a magical recovery.

I have seen it myself when a scrote who was trying to get to Torre was turfed off the train at Newton Abbot (no ticket, no money etc) who was suddenly taken ill on the platform, an Ambulance was called (despite this individual being well known to the station staff) and when the Ambulance arrived they were informed of the situation and then within earshot of the individual they stated they were from the RD&E Hospital and would be taking the 'patient' to Exeter.

The 'patient' then made a magical recovery, called everyone various colourful names and walked off the station!

Now I am sure it is purely coincidental but the nearest Hospital to Newton Abbot is Torbay Hospital which is within easy walking distance of Torre station, not that I am inferring that the 'patient' was trying to use the Ambulance as a free taxi, I would never do such a thing!