The "logic" is that you can see that a lot of your life has already gone, so you probably don't have that much longer to go. So you don't really need to kill yourself as it will happen soon enough anyway.
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Suicide - particularly men
- Thread starter Bayum
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The "logic" is that you can see that a lot of your life has already gone, so you probably don't have that much longer to go. So you don't really need to kill yourself as it will happen soon enough anyway.
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RailUK Forums
Techniquest
Veteran Member
As someone who's had friends go through depression at different levels, and indeed currently talking to someone who still has it and is on meds for it, I do strongly agree that talking about it with close friends who you trust is a brilliant move.
Please, whatever you do Bayum, talk about it with someone. I can't promise to help, but I'm willing to listen and help wherever possible.
It is true that society expects men to just deal with things, that they've failed if they don't. It's ludicrous but that's how society is sadly, and won't change for a long time if history can teach us anything.
I was talking to a now-ex colleague last week who's been through issues and been on meds for depression. He's come off them now and is fighting strong, but to look at him you'd never assume he'd ever had issues. Same for the other people I know with mental health issues, they're brilliant for putting on a front and you really wouldn't think they had a problem of any sort.
Certainly this thread shows how we are all quite a family of sorts!
Please, whatever you do Bayum, talk about it with someone. I can't promise to help, but I'm willing to listen and help wherever possible.
It is true that society expects men to just deal with things, that they've failed if they don't. It's ludicrous but that's how society is sadly, and won't change for a long time if history can teach us anything.
I was talking to a now-ex colleague last week who's been through issues and been on meds for depression. He's come off them now and is fighting strong, but to look at him you'd never assume he'd ever had issues. Same for the other people I know with mental health issues, they're brilliant for putting on a front and you really wouldn't think they had a problem of any sort.
Certainly this thread shows how we are all quite a family of sorts!
Smudger105e
Member
And please accept my sincerest apologies for that.
I think I should let those more qualified than me deal with this serious issue.
There is no one more qualified. Mental health issues affect everyone and part of the reasons why suicide is so high in males is that we don't talk to qualified professionals.
There is a lot of stigma attached to mental health and that contributes to people keeping their depression and other mental health issues to themselves.
What everyone can do it to take notice of their friends and relatives. There is a loss of connection with people and an emotional void. You can struggle to communicate and make vague attempts at telling family and friends. Seeking professional help is rarely a consideration.
Smudger105e
Member
I suppose I meant more knowledgeable...
Don't apologise mate. Everyone's opinion is valid. I was a bit harsh to be honest.
The tech community has been rcked by a rather strange suicide in the last few days, it's amazing how quickly things can go from seeming perfectly normal to that.
One thing that was striking when the first "he's threatening suicide on twitter" reports came out was how many people said "get some help", but how few could actually help. I certainly have no idea what to do with someone threatening suicide, be they mouthing off on the internet or standing on a bridge. If someone isn't breathing, I make them breathe. If someone is bleeding, I stop them bleeding. If somene is going to commit suicide, what can you do?
One thing that was striking when the first "he's threatening suicide on twitter" reports came out was how many people said "get some help", but how few could actually help. I certainly have no idea what to do with someone threatening suicide, be they mouthing off on the internet or standing on a bridge. If someone isn't breathing, I make them breathe. If someone is bleeding, I stop them bleeding. If somene is going to commit suicide, what can you do?
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Talk to them!
Strathclyder
Established Member
I know that most folk here will most likely skip/skim over this, but I really need to vent right now. Have had a really rough past couple weeks and have really been struggling to keep it together these past few days.
The depression quietly bubbles away inside me, slowly eating away at my very soul, threatening to overwhelm me at any moment. The facade that I fight so hard to keep up in public will sometimes crack and a tear or two will silently leak out of my eyes, giving the world a fleeting, but telling glimpse into my fractured, tortured soul. Sometimes, the pain simply becomes unbearable and I just think: 'I want out. Doesn't matter how I do it. Knife across the throat & wrists, overdosing, jumping off a bridge, I don't care how, I. Just. Want. Out'. I have come dangerously close to actually doing it, just to put an end to the seemingly endless pain & torment. However, despite these thoughts/urges getting more and more powerful with each time they occur (with this past Sunday being my lowest point in a long time), I somehow manage to fight on past them, with a small voice at the back of my head quietly telling me;
I hope somebody can make sense of all that disjointed, rambling text. Just needed to get it all off my chest. And if it helps anyone in any way whatsoever, it was worth the effort.
The depression quietly bubbles away inside me, slowly eating away at my very soul, threatening to overwhelm me at any moment. The facade that I fight so hard to keep up in public will sometimes crack and a tear or two will silently leak out of my eyes, giving the world a fleeting, but telling glimpse into my fractured, tortured soul. Sometimes, the pain simply becomes unbearable and I just think: 'I want out. Doesn't matter how I do it. Knife across the throat & wrists, overdosing, jumping off a bridge, I don't care how, I. Just. Want. Out'. I have come dangerously close to actually doing it, just to put an end to the seemingly endless pain & torment. However, despite these thoughts/urges getting more and more powerful with each time they occur (with this past Sunday being my lowest point in a long time), I somehow manage to fight on past them, with a small voice at the back of my head quietly telling me;
'You are stronger than you may think you are. Right now, those may sound like hollow, meaningless words, but you really and truly are. You've weathered countless storms. DON'T let this one break you. I can't promise the going will be at all easy. It almost never is, but I will be there for you throughout it all and will stay with you when you come out the other side, no matter how long it takes'.
I hope somebody can make sense of all that disjointed, rambling text. Just needed to get it all off my chest. And if it helps anyone in any way whatsoever, it was worth the effort.
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Karl
On Moderation
(1 hour without a reply to your post)
I've not skipped your post.
I added this thread to my subscription list because I identified with so many of the posts.
I'm not very articulate but I hope my reply bumps this thread and prompts more attention to our silent predicament.
Karl.
I've not skipped your post.
I added this thread to my subscription list because I identified with so many of the posts.
I'm not very articulate but I hope my reply bumps this thread and prompts more attention to our silent predicament.
Karl.
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ExRes
Established Member
I would suggest that this forum is not really the place to be, the Samaritans are properly trained and would be a far better group to make contact with, I hope that is the case and that they will be able to assist with their trained volunteers
Harbornite
Established Member
- Joined
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- 3,627
How come? People can share their experiences here and I don't see that as a bad thing. If anything, people who are suffering can use both this forum and Samaritans.
ExRes
Established Member
They certainly can if they wish to, no argument from me, It's just my opinion that people would be better off talking to trained listeners
RichmondCommu
Established Member
I absolutely agree with this.
In my experience those who talk about ending their own life don't intend to do it, they are just looking for help.
Those who intend to take their own lives just get on and do it and that is the saddest thing of all.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I think people underestimate how much good a listening ear can do, regardless of who it belongs to. The Samaritans can't do anything we can't do, they're a listening service not a counselling service.
The big advantage of the Samaritans is that they are always there, always listening, rather than people on a message board who come and go or may not wish to reply to something like this.
If you don't feel like speaking to someone, if you'd prefer to type things out, you can also email The Samaritans at [email protected]. They don't respond immediately but they will usually respond within a couple of hours.
Strathclyder, remember it is a feeling. It is an overwhelming feeling but it is a feeling: that doesn't make it true. Get yourself to your GP but, more importantly, take care of yourself. Be kind to yourself and don't feel guilty for the feeling. There's a book I recommend to lots of people feeling like this- The Compassionate Mind by Paul Gilbert- after my wife (a clinical psychologist) recommended it for me.
Lankyline
Member
Bayum, I have huge respect for you in creating this thread and I believe in this simple act it may help you in someway to deal with your situation. I am not going to say time is a healer or similar meaningless platitudes as in my experience they are simply that, meaningless words, time is not a healer and it certainly isn't for me.
Last July I lost the love of my life of the last 12 years very suddenly, my darling Karen, it was totally unexpected and I miss her every minute of every hour of everyday. even more so as we not only were together in life but we worked together running our business, so we were together virtually everyday.
I have always considered myself to be a strong person, glass half full and all that, but this has floored me completely. The pm report said that even if I had been with her, there was nothing I could have done and I can deal with that, what I have difficulty in dealing with is that I wasn't there with her at the end and i will take that with me to my grave.
I have dealt with a hell of a lot in my life and in the last 12 years I have dealt with 5 deaths, a mother with dementia, being made homeless for a period, add a few legal battles, divorce and now for the last year shutting down the business we ran together and going through all her financial affairs for the solicitors because I was the only one who understood all the details and my problems are still not over.
What is the point in all this, whilst I have never contemplated suicide, I have had quite a few "dark" days, I don't mind admitting I have spent a few crying my eyes out, I have no family or kids, its just me, but thank god I do have a couple of long standing friends who I have been able to talk to and that has been worth its wait in gold.
Each day is a challenge, sometimes the simplest things which we would normally not given a second thought to become an issue, life goes on hold to a certain extent, I have found that there are a lot of things I really don't care about anymore, life isn't one of them, for example I have no time for trivia, time wasters, so what drives me now and helps get me through each day, simply this, my Karen wouldn't want me to give up, she never did and i am determined not to.
So if someone says to me "you'll get over it in time" or "you'll meet someone else" or "time is a great healer" my response is this, don't even think you can begin to understand how i feel, because by saying those words you obviously haven't lost anyone you truly loved. My advice for what its worth, find something to help you focus, it doesn't matter what it is, if it helps use it. If you have good friends who you can talk to, try and do so, because if they are true friends they will listen and understand.
There is a lot of understanding and compassion already been shown on this forum, i don't know if it helps you, but even if it has in a small way, then it has been useful.
Last July I lost the love of my life of the last 12 years very suddenly, my darling Karen, it was totally unexpected and I miss her every minute of every hour of everyday. even more so as we not only were together in life but we worked together running our business, so we were together virtually everyday.
I have always considered myself to be a strong person, glass half full and all that, but this has floored me completely. The pm report said that even if I had been with her, there was nothing I could have done and I can deal with that, what I have difficulty in dealing with is that I wasn't there with her at the end and i will take that with me to my grave.
I have dealt with a hell of a lot in my life and in the last 12 years I have dealt with 5 deaths, a mother with dementia, being made homeless for a period, add a few legal battles, divorce and now for the last year shutting down the business we ran together and going through all her financial affairs for the solicitors because I was the only one who understood all the details and my problems are still not over.
What is the point in all this, whilst I have never contemplated suicide, I have had quite a few "dark" days, I don't mind admitting I have spent a few crying my eyes out, I have no family or kids, its just me, but thank god I do have a couple of long standing friends who I have been able to talk to and that has been worth its wait in gold.
Each day is a challenge, sometimes the simplest things which we would normally not given a second thought to become an issue, life goes on hold to a certain extent, I have found that there are a lot of things I really don't care about anymore, life isn't one of them, for example I have no time for trivia, time wasters, so what drives me now and helps get me through each day, simply this, my Karen wouldn't want me to give up, she never did and i am determined not to.
So if someone says to me "you'll get over it in time" or "you'll meet someone else" or "time is a great healer" my response is this, don't even think you can begin to understand how i feel, because by saying those words you obviously haven't lost anyone you truly loved. My advice for what its worth, find something to help you focus, it doesn't matter what it is, if it helps use it. If you have good friends who you can talk to, try and do so, because if they are true friends they will listen and understand.
There is a lot of understanding and compassion already been shown on this forum, i don't know if it helps you, but even if it has in a small way, then it has been useful.
keppoch69
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Nov 2014
- Messages
- 60
As someone who is a <survivor> of suicide, whatever that is, may I share perhaps?
I have attempted more than once, not recently though, & also my baby brother hung himself maybe 5 years ago, and he never made 40.
The worst part for me, now as a bachelor person of 46 years, is the loneliness and isolation.
The internet has been a blessing to be honest. When you are demented and have had a crap sleep pattern for about a week and when you do chat via webcam, friends say you look ill.
In Scotland at any rate, it really depends on where you reside, what kind of support one would be offered. Here in the West of Scotland, it really is only fire fighting. 6 appointments and then out the door to get on with it, <again>.
My professional background is one of mental health and learning disability nursing/support work and in England, there is support and organisations set up to work with people with personality disorders.
In Scotland, there is no support and I was told last year by a G.P. at my new health centre that there was nothing on my notes stating such.
My remaining parent is a "controller" and there is no contact with other family members. Too many people want to pigeon us into boxes. For instance, not all men who have intimate relations with other men, pluck their eyebrows, watch soap operas and march behind a rainbow flag, or scream their tea eye tees off; let alone are a Madonna fan. :roll:
Bringing this back almost full circle I guess? lol.
I spent the early part of this morning, looking at Class 142 Pacers & Class 350 trains of which I am a virgin to both, due to a lovely friend inviting me to stay with him for a while in Rishton, leaving from Lenzie this Saturday with just a simple change at Edinburgh Waverley and Preston.
Sorry if this sounds like I have typed a <tome>. I do tend to share from the heart and am known for being honest.
My friends down south & one in Canada have been worried about me all this year. Nobody living near enough to just get on a bus, or walk round, or for them to drive over and have dinner or something. I know I need a new beginning.
I have known some horrific things in my life, including as a child. I dealt with my past. It is the legacies of the past which cause me problems today. That IS fact, not some preaching from a book.
Big HUG to any brother who might need one on this board today x.
Andrew.
I have attempted more than once, not recently though, & also my baby brother hung himself maybe 5 years ago, and he never made 40.
The worst part for me, now as a bachelor person of 46 years, is the loneliness and isolation.
The internet has been a blessing to be honest. When you are demented and have had a crap sleep pattern for about a week and when you do chat via webcam, friends say you look ill.
In Scotland at any rate, it really depends on where you reside, what kind of support one would be offered. Here in the West of Scotland, it really is only fire fighting. 6 appointments and then out the door to get on with it, <again>.
My professional background is one of mental health and learning disability nursing/support work and in England, there is support and organisations set up to work with people with personality disorders.
In Scotland, there is no support and I was told last year by a G.P. at my new health centre that there was nothing on my notes stating such.
My remaining parent is a "controller" and there is no contact with other family members. Too many people want to pigeon us into boxes. For instance, not all men who have intimate relations with other men, pluck their eyebrows, watch soap operas and march behind a rainbow flag, or scream their tea eye tees off; let alone are a Madonna fan. :roll:
Bringing this back almost full circle I guess? lol.
I spent the early part of this morning, looking at Class 142 Pacers & Class 350 trains of which I am a virgin to both, due to a lovely friend inviting me to stay with him for a while in Rishton, leaving from Lenzie this Saturday with just a simple change at Edinburgh Waverley and Preston.
Sorry if this sounds like I have typed a <tome>. I do tend to share from the heart and am known for being honest.
My friends down south & one in Canada have been worried about me all this year. Nobody living near enough to just get on a bus, or walk round, or for them to drive over and have dinner or something. I know I need a new beginning.
I have known some horrific things in my life, including as a child. I dealt with my past. It is the legacies of the past which cause me problems today. That IS fact, not some preaching from a book.
Big HUG to any brother who might need one on this board today x.
Andrew.
WelshBluebird
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 5,260
Mental health care in this country is an utter disgrace really. People would be disgusted if we treated people with physical injuries like we treat those who need mental health help.
The problem is most people won't take to anyone at all.
So surely it is better to talk to someone, even if its on a forum like this, than if they don't talk at all about it?
For me, it was two close friends. Without those two amazing people, I have no idea what I'd have done. But they listened without judging, they distracted me when my mind wanted to think about dark things and they stuck by me.
If anything, that is the important lesson. Talking is important. Doesn't really matter who its to. Obviously get professional help if you feel you can, but talking to anyone is a massive step that can help.
The problem is most people won't take to anyone at all.
So surely it is better to talk to someone, even if its on a forum like this, than if they don't talk at all about it?
For me, it was two close friends. Without those two amazing people, I have no idea what I'd have done. But they listened without judging, they distracted me when my mind wanted to think about dark things and they stuck by me.
If anything, that is the important lesson. Talking is important. Doesn't really matter who its to. Obviously get professional help if you feel you can, but talking to anyone is a massive step that can help.
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Strathclyder
Established Member
Karl & Arctic Troll - Thank you both for the words of support. I shall be getting myself to my G.P as soon as possible. These past few weeks have been so draining & exhausting, constantly fighting my own mind. I wouldn't wish this kind of pain on my worst enemy...
bb21
Emeritus Moderator
- Joined
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Don't forget that we have regular forum meets being held across the country. I would like to think that we are all sympathetic and be able to discuss things as many of us would have gone through similar ordeals. A problem shared is a problem halved, as they say.
Not everyone is into discussing loopholes and how to travel around the country for £1.
Not everyone is into discussing loopholes and how to travel around the country for £1.
This thread has reassured me that I'm not alone, and whilst I agree it may be better to talk to a professional (such as The Samaritans), I still think it's very reassuring for people to know that there are others who understand and who they can talk to about how they feel. I have a few very good friends who have also been in the same place as I have, and they have always been there for me to talk to either over the phone, on Skype or in person. I have always done the same for them in return, and fully intend to continue doing so.
I myself have contemplated ending my life in the last few years on a few occasions, but with the support of my friends and family, they have encouraged me to see a professional to help me overcome my depression. I fully intend to overcome it, for the benefit of myself, my friends, my brilliant partner (who has been unbelievably supportive) and our future family.
If anybody ever wants somebody to talk to, I am more than willing to listen.
I myself have contemplated ending my life in the last few years on a few occasions, but with the support of my friends and family, they have encouraged me to see a professional to help me overcome my depression. I fully intend to overcome it, for the benefit of myself, my friends, my brilliant partner (who has been unbelievably supportive) and our future family.
If anybody ever wants somebody to talk to, I am more than willing to listen.
Same here mate, am sure I don't live a million miles from you, I live near West Allerton. Am there for you or anyone else. We are all in this together, massive ball ache that it can be at times. Ha ha.
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