Sun front page- iPads for Train Drivers

[bramling]

Meaning of brass neck in English: "a type of behaviour where someone is extremely confident about their own actions but does not understand that their behaviour is unacceptable to others".

Which others is this supposedly unacceptable to? One suspects most passengers would be quite happy that a comparatively tiny amount of money spent has allowed them to, now, have a relatively full service, as opposed to the scores of cancellations found on some TOCs? I can’t see much brass neck there, especially as at the time large sums of money were being spent to allow large segments of the population to sit at home doing nothing.

 

[TUC]

Yes we’ve heard all this boring nonsense over & over again before. Perhaps the people in those jobs should aspire to do better in life or join a decent union.

When the internet was first made available at work in the mid-1990s, it was restricted to senior executive. Our view was, 'why can't we have it? It will make our jobs so much easier'.

Yeah and most shop workers have had payrises to reflect the new skills they may or may not take on.

No they haven't. They may have had pay rises, but not for 'new skills'.

 

[dk1]

I think the most amusing thing about this thread is that anyone takes The Sun or any of its comments seriously.

 

[TreacleMiller]

As well as the fact they can't be switched on in the cab........

Yes they can and are. Using mine is mandatory.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Yeah and most shop workers have had payrises to reflect the new skills they may or may not take on. Train drivers on the other hand have had nothing since 2019, so forgive us for not rushing all at once. Though, as I said this is already in place at my TOC, I'm not entirely sure what the story is, I thought all TOCs had technology like this now....?

No. Retail payrises have had nothing to do with 'new skills', and everything to do with the cost of living, National Living Wage increases, and competition between supermarkets for staff. The increase in zero-hour or 7.5 hour contracts means pay overall has decreased for a lot of new starters anyway.

Yes we’ve heard all this boring nonsense over & over again before. Perhaps the people in those jobs should aspire to do better in life or join a decent union.

I think that's quite rude, to be honest. I work with a lot of people who are unable to 'do better in life' for various reasons - age, disability, family, etc. Real 'bootstraps bullsh!t'.

 

[dk1]

I think that's quite rude, to be honest. I work with a lot of people who are unable to 'do better in life' for various reasons - age, disability, family, etc. Real 'bootstraps bullsh!t'.

Unfortunately that’s life. I find it quite rude that these people tell us what we are & are not entitled to in our jobs. I couldn’t give two hoots what perks others get in their terms of employment. Good luck to them.

 

[Bantamzen]

That’s funny, because I was issued with an iPad at my first TOC almost a decade ago, the use of which had been negotiated between the TOC and ASLEF. Rather suggests your statement above is a long way from reality…

So can you tell us what The Sun article is actually about, which TOC is affected, and what specifically has happened here? Or are you just digging out railway unions again?

No this time I really am taking a shot at the unions. This kind of thing partly demonstrates why everything railway associated takes an eternity to happen, and costs way more than it should. It might be great for the workers whose union demands these kinds of things, but it adds cost to the end users, i.e. the people the railways rely on to keep going. And that is why people get p***** off every time we read things like drivers union demand more money for trivial changes to their working day, whilst fares barrel ever upwards.

Let's cut to the chase here, if it weren't for subsidies and government support, many TOCs would have failed and collapsed. Its clear that many struggled to ever even break even, and frankly stuff like this starts to make it clear why.

I think the most amusing thing about this thread is that anyone takes The Sun or any of its comments seriously.

Almost as amusing as the thought that some ASLEF members voted for the government they are now fighting...

I think that's quite rude, to be honest. I work with a lot of people who are unable to 'do better in life' for various reasons - age, disability, family, etc. Real 'bootstraps bullsh!t'.

Indeed.

 

[dk1]

Almost as amusing as the thought that some ASLEF members voted for the government they are now fighting...

Tell me about it

I still see The Sun & The Mail laying about in this house some days too.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

In awe at the brass neck of this one - there could have been an alternative of staying at home and getting paid furlough rates (NB - average salary for drivers would mean the ~£25k cap would've hit pretty hard).

Did NHS workers get extra for being at huge risk - I read there was a bonus afterwards (paid in 2023), but not about anything during the crisis?

Nope, they didn’t, and certainly round here student nurses were expected to turn up for their unpaid placements to help look after patients still. My wife was a student midwife at the time, but worked as a Health Care Assistant on a zero hour contract on the Covid ward and ICU, with no incentives. And there was no bonus later on for that.

In my own case (IT, but for Critical Infrastructure) we weren’t furloughed, but when we needed to be on site, there was no danger money or additional payments for having to test, just a little bag with some wipes, gloves and masks that the company provided.

I think railway workers need to accept they have very strong unions, and in no other area I’ve worked would people expect to get additional payments for new ways of working like moving from paper sheets to iPads! (I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, just don’t be surprised if it doesn’t make people feel warm and fuzzy towards people who are seen as well paid anyways!)

 

[fishwomp]

Which others is this supposedly unacceptable to?

Every one who does not work on the railways?

One suspects most passengers would be quite happy that a comparatively tiny amount of money spent has allowed them to, now, have a relatively full service, as opposed to the scores of cancellations found on some TOCs?

Most passengers would be shocked to hear it was necessary to bribe staff to do a job.

I can’t see much brass neck there,

You won't - read that definition of brass neck again.

especially as at the time large sums of money were being spent to allow large segments of the population to sit at home doing nothing.

Especially as at the time there were people actually putting their lives at risk on the NHS front line.

There were plenty of bad behaviours during COVID at many levels, government and PPE suppliers included, but let's not pretend this is not one of them. When the union tells us "People put their lives at risk during a pandemic, to get other key workers to work and move food and medicine around the country" (Whelan, last week) - he forgot to share that a extra cash was paid for that.

 

[thruud]

I think the rest of the public sector, many of whom were people like my friends daughter, training in a university medical degree to be a nurse and who found themselves flung onto wards in a totally different function to the area they'd trained in, to deliver essential care as a last resort when bodies were running out, and who were at a lot of risk (quite a few of my NHS friends colleagues of all ages died from COVID during 2020, usually contracted on the hospital), would be dissapointed to hear that elements of the rail sector expected extra pay to take a covid test.

This I think highlights the problem that elements of rail has with society. Everything becomes a battle, everything becomes about having a strong union and everything is about seeking ways to get extra money, often to do things that to others are either morally indefensible or just plain ridiculous. Many here are content with that, but understand that while this may work in the short term, it builds the case for a lot of media and other opposition to your way of life that may backfire. I would say that sometimes it would be nice if members of the railway didn't see everything as a battle where they must eke out an advantage at any price, and just did things because it was the right thing to do (like COVID testing) - but clearly I need to do 'better in life'. Instead it builds an image of a deeply militant, change averse group of fat cats who only care about their wallets.

 

[VP185]

I think the rest of the public sector, many of whom were people like my friends daughter, training in a university medical degree to be a nurse and who found themselves flung onto wards in a totally different function to the area they'd trained in, to deliver essential care as a last resort when bodies were running out, and who were at a lot of risk (quite a few of my NHS friends colleagues of all ages died from COVID during 2020, usually contracted on the hospital), would be dissapointed to hear that elements of the rail sector expected extra pay to take a covid test.

Why would it be disappointing to hear? The alternative would be the train leaves late while the crew take a Covid test. We generally book on, depending on location, something like 15 minutes before the train departs.

 

[thruud]

Why would it be disappointing to hear? The alternative would be the train leaves late while the crew take a Covid test. We generally book on, depending on location, something like 15 minutes before the train departs.

The fact that you expected to be paid extra to do something that everyone else accepted doing as part of normal practise during a strange time. Do the Covid test at home before you come to work, as most people did, or rejig shift patterns slightly.

Every other part of the public sector managed to cope without seeing an opportunity to blackmail their employers, a shame parts of the railway felt they could behave in a way that many people find morally reprehensible.

 

[VP185]

or rejig shift patterns slightly

They did. It’s called overtime.

 

[vikingdriver]

Why would it be disappointing to hear? The alternative would be the train leaves late while the crew take a Covid test. We generally book on, depending on location, something like 15 minutes before the train departs.

Indeed and there were occasions at the beginning of it all that I had to go to London on my day off to have occupational health do the test, so a 3 hour round trip plus the time at spent at occupational health.

The fact that you expected to be paid extra to do something that everyone else accepted doing as part of normal practise during a strange time. Do the Covid test at home before you come to work, as most people did, or rejig shift patterns slightly.

Every other part of the public sector managed to cope without seeing an opportunity to blackmail their employers, a shame parts of the railway felt they could behave in a way that many people find morally reprehensible.

Blackmail? Behave.

 

[43066]

No this time I really am taking a shot at the unions. This kind of thing partly demonstrates why everything railway associated takes an eternity to happen, and costs way more than it should

So, as I asked you before, specifically what has the union done in this case, and which TOC is affected?

And that is why people get p***** off every time we read things like drivers union demand more money for trivial changes to their working day, whilst fares barrel ever upwards.

Generally only the sort of people who read The Sun, The Mail etc. though. Most people probably realise there’s a little more to it…

 

[matt]

This thread has now run its course.