spyinthesky
Member
Having lived in places where Sunday opening is unheard of, people seem to manage their time much more successfully and seem to have a better social wellbeing.
As for being petty, life is about choices . I make mine.
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Sunday trading laws discussion
- Thread starter Ladder23
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As for being petty, life is about choices . I make mine.
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Yorkshire09876
Member
You make your choice not to go shopping on a Sunday - absolutely fine, but no need to want to deny others that choice.
spyinthesky
Member
The want or need to deny is my choice. Choices don’t always work and I accept that too.
Yes, it’s your family time. That’s fine, but…
…you don’t get to make that so for everyone. If you want your family time, have it. Nobody is stopping you!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
So if you have two choices:
1) You don't use the shops on Sundays as it's your family time. However, others that want/need to, can
2) You don't use the shops on Sundays as it's your family time. Because of this, no one else can either
What would your justification be for choosing the second option over the first? How does whether or not other people go to the shops affect you?
Yorkshire09876
Member
So you think that basically you should dictate everyone's choice - i.e. if you had your way, all the shops would be shut so those who wanted to use them wouldn't have a choice because you decided for them? How exactly does it affect you if others want to use the shops on a Sunday? Some of us don't have families so 'family time' is irrelevant, and some of us also don't like online shopping, particularly for groceries.
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Back in my very younger day shops weren't open on a Sunday, closed early on a Saturday, had at least one weekday with early closing, and Sainsburys for one was shut all day Monday. There was little or no later opening.
https://www.sainsburyarchive.org.uk...insburys-will-be-closed-all-day-mondays-flyer
That worked when families had one person who didn't work [usually the "housewife"]. It doesn't work in today's world.
https://www.sainsburyarchive.org.uk...insburys-will-be-closed-all-day-mondays-flyer
That worked when families had one person who didn't work [usually the "housewife"]. It doesn't work in today's world.
Would you also ban deliveries on a Sunday?
Why are you wanting or needing to deny others? What difference does it make to you if they choose to shop on a Sunday?
spyinthesky
Member
Correct on both counts, I have already said I accept that too
1) Correct
2) it affects all the people who are involved that have to work . My choice is just that. Everybody still can go shopping because it isn’t my choice that makes the decision.
My choice would, yes
The response is in what you quoted
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Chrius56000
Member
. . .I think the 6 hours Sunday Trading is just about right – it's not as me and my friend Steve needs much more than an hour in any one particular store, whether retail park or supermarket, but I do certainly agree about local bus public transport being hopeless on Sundays!
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BingMan
Member
- Joined
- 8 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 502
It means that there is a lot more traffic on the roads which impinges on the pleasure of those of us who enjoy a quite day
Yorkshire09876
Member
But you aren't prevented from doing anything you might want to do, so it's clearly not comparable to shutting the shops, where those who needed to go shopping simply wouldn't be able to.
SuspectUsual
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Jul 2018
- Messages
- 5,021
If Sunday trading was banned, supermarkets would have to move from 7 days a week deliveries to 6, which means (a) more traffic on the roads on the busier days, and (2) more vehicles required as they’re used less efficiently, so stuff would get a bit more expensive
How exactly does it affect you?
Total nonsense.
GusB
Established Member
Even if the shops were all shut, more people have cars and the likelihood is that they'd be using them for activities other than shopping. I don't think that the roads would be any quieter, to be honest. If you were expecting people to be indulging in a day of quiet spiritual reflection instead, I fear you'll be sorely disappointed!
Cross City
Member
I'm not religious, my family are awful and Sunday evenings are incredibly convenient for me to go shopping.
It's not the 70s anymore, despite what a lot of people here wish. Let me shop when I want and let retail workers earn some more money if they want to work Sundays.
It's not the 70s anymore, despite what a lot of people here wish. Let me shop when I want and let retail workers earn some more money if they want to work Sundays.
Six hours of trading for large shops seems fine for anyone off on a Sunday who wants to go shopping. Given smaller convenience stores can be open whenever they want, you can still get a pint of milk at almost any time of the day.
Since Covid, I don't think Tesco has ever restored 24 hour opening (bar Sundays, obviously) at its larger stores and some other smaller stores once open all through the night are now closed - except perhaps in major city centres. So it would appear that the bigger issue (if we can call it an issue) is that it is harder to get a pint of milk at 3am than it was before.
It would appear that people have coped though.
Since Covid, I don't think Tesco has ever restored 24 hour opening (bar Sundays, obviously) at its larger stores and some other smaller stores once open all through the night are now closed - except perhaps in major city centres. So it would appear that the bigger issue (if we can call it an issue) is that it is harder to get a pint of milk at 3am than it was before.
It would appear that people have coped though.
Six hours of trading which are at the same time as everything else going on during the day on a Sunday. e.g. sporting events.
Yes, people can cope and work around it, but why should they have to? Why shouldn't store owners be free to decide if they want to open on a Sunday like any other day?
Scotland has never had these restrictions and the world doesn't seem to have ended there.
spyinthesky
Member
The six hours of trading still applies in Scotland on Sundays and a few days in the year when they can’t open ie Easter Sunday (Shops over 280 sqm )
Shop workers can still refuse to work on Sundays.
Alcohol times are also restricted, do we really need more?
Shop workers can still refuse to work on Sundays.
Alcohol times are also restricted, do we really need more?
Yorkshire09876
Member
No. See https://www.gov.uk/trading-hours-for-retailers-the-law which explicitly states that "There are no trading hours restrictions in Scotland."
spyinthesky
Member
Edit: I read that as small shops under 280 Sqm
Yorkshire09876
Member
No. If you look at the heading above the section for large shops it clearly states 'Rules for large shops in England and Wales'.
spyinthesky
Member
Yes , I’ve got it now you are correct.
Most can. It only applies to large stores.
Smaller stores usually close because people aren't out in the morning or evening, which you could argue is because the larger shops are closed, or because people are doing other things.
If you are going to see a sporting event, I doubt you're also going to do your weekly shop. I appreciate you're likely talking about more than supermarkets, but the same applies. If I'm going to see football, rugby, a show, the cinema or whatever - am I also going to go to a major shopping centre before or after? Almost certainly not before as you can't take anything bigger than a bit of A4 paper into most venues.
If you mean Sunday amateur football, well, my son played football on a Sunday but that was two hours (including warm-up/training) so we could go shopping after.
If shops were habitually closed every Sunday (The Entertainer seems happy with this) then maybe we could debate, but six hours is quite a long time - and, as I said, smaller shops can legally open but likely are simply choosing not to.
Lots of local pubs had late licences for Friday and Saturday night but since Covid not a one has opened beyond 2300. That is their choice. Even my local kebab van hasn't opened beyond 2330 since Covid, when before he was open until 0200.
Yes, correct. No Sunday trading laws in Scotland. Major supermarkets are open all day 7 days a week in Scotland, often 8AM to 7PM on Sundays. I have family in Scotland and whenever they come down here they are continually bemused by the reduced opening hours on Sundays.
spyinthesky
Member
Scotland is but one of a few countries in Europe and nearly all have similar or tighter rules than England and Wales . I wouldn’t find it bemusing.
Cross City
Member
This also needs scrapping. Christmas Day too.
spyinthesky
Member
That ain’t happening any time soon.
To repeat what I said at the start of this thread.
The current Sunday Trading rules in England and Wales date back to 1994, prior to that the law dictated which goods could be sold on Sundays which had become farcical because it was legal to sell a ‘top shelf’ magazine but not a bible! The Act was a compromise between protecting the viability of small shops (who had genuine concerns about their viability if opening hours became totally unregulated), the Church (who were a main player in the Keep Sunday Special campaign) and the major retailers (who at the time were pushing for unrestricted Sunday Trading).
I’ve worked in retail all my career and I have to say I’m surprised the current situation has stayed as it has for this long, not that I support any further deregulation.
Sunday Trading isn’t just about shops. There’s all of the support functions that also need to work (eg everything from transport, distribution, supply chain, security, car park control, cash collection, IT support, the list is endless - I could go on…)
Sunday Trading was temporarily deregulated for a few weeks in 2012 around the Olympics. At the time I was an Area Manager for a major retail chain and I suspected the relaxation would become permanent. The sales weren’t that significant but the staffing costs were. In the end I was glad to see the back of it.
‘Bricks and mortar’ retail has really struggled over the last few years. A few years ago there might have been a competitive edge for certain retailers if there was deregulation. A few were actively campaigning for it (led by Asda iirc). That simply isn’t the case today and I don’t see any changes happening any time soon.
The current Sunday Trading rules in England and Wales date back to 1994, prior to that the law dictated which goods could be sold on Sundays which had become farcical because it was legal to sell a ‘top shelf’ magazine but not a bible! The Act was a compromise between protecting the viability of small shops (who had genuine concerns about their viability if opening hours became totally unregulated), the Church (who were a main player in the Keep Sunday Special campaign) and the major retailers (who at the time were pushing for unrestricted Sunday Trading).
I’ve worked in retail all my career and I have to say I’m surprised the current situation has stayed as it has for this long, not that I support any further deregulation.
Sunday Trading isn’t just about shops. There’s all of the support functions that also need to work (eg everything from transport, distribution, supply chain, security, car park control, cash collection, IT support, the list is endless - I could go on…)
Sunday Trading was temporarily deregulated for a few weeks in 2012 around the Olympics. At the time I was an Area Manager for a major retail chain and I suspected the relaxation would become permanent. The sales weren’t that significant but the staffing costs were. In the end I was glad to see the back of it.
‘Bricks and mortar’ retail has really struggled over the last few years. A few years ago there might have been a competitive edge for certain retailers if there was deregulation. A few were actively campaigning for it (led by Asda iirc). That simply isn’t the case today and I don’t see any changes happening any time soon.