Surbiton Station: Platforms 3 and 4 major works to address passenger congestion

[Nicks]

Posters have now appeared on the station about these Network Rail sponsored works - users of the station will know that exiting platforms 3/4 during the evening peak is time consuming and potentially dangerous with the build up of crowds of commuters. I know there has been talk for several years but it seems something is about to be done. I've found the plans on the Kingston Council planning webpages and it shows a new London facing staircase leading to a new concourse/ barrier line exiting to the southern side but with a small link cut through to the existing public overbridge which does cross to the northern side. Focusing on the southern side seems strange since almost everyone crosses over to exit on the northern side (where the shops and buses are). What do others think please - it's quite hard to understand the plans and I may have missed something obvious!

 

[swt_passenger]

Posters have now appeared on the station about these Network Rail sponsored works - users of the station will know that exiting platforms 3/4 during the evening peak is time consuming and potentially dangerous with the build up of crowds of commuters. I know there has been talk for several years but it seems something is about to be done. I've found the plans on the Kingston Council planning webpages and it shows a new London facing staircase leading to a new concourse/ barrier line exiting to the southern side but with a small link cut through to the existing public overbridge which does cross to the northern side. Focusing on the southern side seems strange since almost everyone crosses over to exit on the northern side (where the shops and buses are). What do others think please - it's quite hard to understand the plans and I may have missed something obvious!

Presumably letting people use both the public and paid sides of the overbridge increases capacity? Is there a “design and access statement” or “planning statement” on the planning website? They usually provide the rationale for these sort of projects for the planners.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Don't know if things have changed much in the eighteen or so years since I was there, but the down side was where the car park was, and it always used to fill up with people driving in from further afield to take advantage of zonal fares and faster trains into Waterloo.

 

[nlogax]

Interesting. Will have a look tomorrow evening when I catch my train there.

 

[WesternBiker]

I have just found the application here.

Essentially, it seems to be an additional bridge-level mini concourse on the southern side only; with a new staircase on the London end of the platform and a corresponding staircase on the car park side.

It looks like quite a sizeable construction, all told. But I’m sure it’ll make egress from the station easier in the evening rush hours. It will also help separate (to some extent) the flows of those exiting in different directions.

 

[nlogax]

The direct links above didn't work for me first time around (and did when I refreshed), but if needed you can search again on Kingston's planning site using 21/02703/LBC or PP-09952223.

It is quite a substantial-looking addition and much needed.

 

[Nicks]

Trouble is this just keeps the average Surbiton commuter (me for decades!) sitting at the rear of the train - a better solution would have been a new stair and overbridge at the countryend - on the southern side directly exiting to the car park and the northern side to the area that is already railway land in the front drop off point. This would also have added an alternative exit in case of an emergency issue at the station.

 

[swt_passenger]

The direct links above didn't work for me first time around (and did when I refreshed), but if needed you can search again on Kingston's planning site using 21/02703/LBC or PP-09952223.

It is quite a substantial-looking addition and much needed.

Thanks for providing the reference.
As I suspected there’s a text explanation and drawing in the “planning statement”, on page 14/15:

”The proposed works will be undertaken to the Southern entrance of the station and will not impact the Northern entrance or access to the platforms via the Station footbridge/Paid Side.
This option will temporarily remove the public stair and relocate eastwards to accommodate the new deck. This deck is proposed to be a podium structure and is to feature one staircase to the London End of the platform and 8 no. Ticket Gates (1 no. wide access).”
“There will be access to the public side of the footbridge from the proposed deck, therefore passengers can exit either to the north or the south of the station.”

 

[Tio Terry]

I was involved with the planning for this many years ago.

One of the big problems this overcomes is the passenger movements either side of the existing stair tower. These lead to heavily congested platforms either side as everyone from the rear of the train has to walk past them to get to the staircase. With the possibility of a down fast train passing through the platform whilst a stopper is emptying the chance of someone getting a glancing blow - or much worse - was seen as a big problem. By providing a London facing staircase most people will use that rather than walk around the sides to use the country facing staircase. So the problem of congested platforms should be greatly eased.

 

[nlogax]

I was involved with the planning for this many years ago.

One of the big problems this overcomes is the passenger movements either side of the existing stair tower. These lead to heavily congested platforms either side as everyone from the rear of the train has to walk past them to get to the staircase. With the possibility of a down fast train passing through the platform whilst a stopper is emptying the chance of someone getting a glancing blow - or much worse - was seen as a big problem. By providing a London facing staircase most people will use that rather than walk around the sides to use the country facing staircase. So the problem of congested platforms should be greatly eased.

Of course this makes perfect sense. Leaving from the Waterloo end of the train and crawling along the platform towards the corner of the staircase while you can hear a 450 arriving on the fast platform on the other side is a predictably miserable experience and I would fully expect the new addition to help.

What I do foresee is a new bottleneck on the overbridge with the new gates to the public side, though I imagine it won't be any worse than the small number of gates at either end of the existing arrangement.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was involved with the planning for this many years ago.

One of the big problems this overcomes is the passenger movements either side of the existing stair tower. These lead to heavily congested platforms either side as everyone from the rear of the train has to walk past them to get to the staircase. With the possibility of a down fast train passing through the platform whilst a stopper is emptying the chance of someone getting a glancing blow - or much worse - was seen as a big problem. By providing a London facing staircase most people will use that rather than walk around the sides to use the country facing staircase. So the problem of congested platforms should be greatly eased.

Do any non-stopping down trains use the Platform 3 track? They certainly didn't back in the day (early 2000s), as there's a through (non-platformed) track in the down direction.

 

[Tio Terry]

Do any non-stopping down trains use the Platform 3 track? They certainly didn't back in the day (early 2000s), as there's a through (non-platformed) track in the down direction.

Not sure if there's anything timetabled through there fast, but, of course, things don't always run in accordance with the timetable!

Even a stopping train rolling in could easily knock someone over, nobody wanting to get home on a cold wet night stays behind the yellow line!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Meanwhile, SWR are planning service cuts from the 2022 timetable because of a forecast reduction in passenger numbers. Not exactly joined up thinking...........

 

[swt_passenger]

Meanwhile, SWR are planning service cuts from the 2022 timetable because of a forecast reduction in passenger numbers. Not exactly joined up thinking...........

They say in one of the supporting documents the project is required anyway, using current forecasts, ie having accounted for recent reductions in passenger numbers caused by Covid..

 

[WesternBiker]

I see work is under way at the London end of platforms 3 and 4, with a section of the canopy removed and a section of the wall of the bridge cut through.

 

[nlogax]

What you see there is the previous route to the pedestrian bridge now boarded up. Non-passengers wishing to cross the tracks from the south side are now routed up the main station steps and via a cut-through to the pedestrian bridge just before the ticket gates.

 

[WesternBiker]

What you see there is the previous route to the pedestrian bridge now boarded up. Non-passengers wishing to cross the tracks from the south side are now routed up the main station steps and via a cut-through to the pedestrian bridge just before the ticket gates.

Thank you – very helpful clarification.

Do you know when the previous route to the pedestrian bridge was removed?

I don't know when the section of the canopy was removed, but I don't recall it being done earlier in the autumn.

 

[Nogoohwell]

What I dont understand is why the lifts are not being sorted out as well. Anyone that has used the lifts will know its an unnerving experience the first time you use it. The lift access to the platforms is via a separate walkway above the main pedestrian walkway. You exit the lifts and it like entering a scene from a horror movie, there is no one about and its just an empty corridor, not what you expect from a busy station.

 

[swt_passenger]

N

What I dont understand is why the lifts are not being sorted out as well. Anyone that has used the lifts will know its an unnerving experience the first time you use it. The lift access to the platforms is via a separate walkway above the main pedestrian walkway. You exit the lifts and it like entering a scene from a horror movie, there is no one about and its just an empty corridor, not what you expect from a busy station.

I think the issue is that if they knocked the lift shafts through to the lower level they‘d be on the public side of the bridge, and make it easier to bypass the gatelines.

But it is an unusual layout though, does anyone know if the lifts were added later than the original building? Or did they start out as postal lifts, and not used by the public…

 

[nlogax]

Do you know when the previous route was removed? I don't know when the section of the canopy was removed, but I don't recall it being done earlier in the autumn.

Within the last four weeks. Initially once the overbridge stairs were blocked off pedestrians were allowed to walk along a taped off side of the station side of the bridge and through the ticket gates. The new cut-through has only been there a few days.

 

[swt_passenger]

Within the last four weeks. Initially once the overbridge stairs were blocked off pedestrians were allowed to walk along a taped off side of the station side of the bridge and through the ticket gates. The new cut-through has only been there a few days.

I believe from the drawing I posted upthread, that new cut-through you mention will be a permanent feature?

 

[nlogax]

I believe from the drawing I posted upthread, that new cut-through you mention will be a permanent feature?

Looking at the drawing I think so, though naturally it's looking pretty rough and ready at the moment this being so early on in the project. Highlighted it to clarify to others where I see the cut-through.

 

[A Challenge]

N

I think the issue is that if they knocked the lift shafts through to the lower level they‘d be on the public side of the bridge, and make it easier to bypass the gatelines.

But it is an unusual layout though, does anyone know if the lifts were added later than the original building? Or did they start out as postal lifts, and not used by the public…

The lifts at Woking also have a separate footbridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

The lifts at Woking also have a separate footbridge.

I was thinking specifically about it being at a completely different height as well as being separate?

 

[181]

But it is an unusual layout though, does anyone know if the lifts were added later than the original building? Or did they start out as postal lifts, and not used by the public…

They aren't the original lifts, but yes, I think the lifts that were in the same positions were intended for mail and parcels, and the idea was to keep mail trolleys apart from passengers, without needing a completely separate bridge like at Woking. Passengers with a good reason could use the lifts (on the only occasion I remember using them we had bicycles that were loaded with panniers and therefore heavy), but I think they had to be operated by staff.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What I dont understand is why the lifts are not being sorted out as well. Anyone that has used the lifts will know its an unnerving experience the first time you use it. The lift access to the platforms is via a separate walkway above the main pedestrian walkway. You exit the lifts and it like entering a scene from a horror movie, there is no one about and its just an empty corridor, not what you expect from a busy station.

I've never used Surbiton, but just going on what you've written here: Could that problem not be solved simply by ensuring there is adequate signage on the lift-access walkway?

 

[WesternBiker]

There's been substantial progress at Surbiton in recent weeks, with large concrete modular units going in to form the new staircase on the island platforms 3 & 4. It all looks very heavily engineered.

 

[Basil Jet]

Isn't the rest of Surbiton made of Snowcrete? This looks like "a carbuncle on the face of an old friend".

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Looks like the design is quite sympathetic to the original art deco styling of the original buildings, assuming that the new concrete won't be left unpainted.

 

[fgwrich]

Looks like the design is quite sympathetic to the original art deco styling of the original buildings, assuming that the new concrete won't be left unpainted.

I'm sure it'll end up being painted white sooner than later - while it looks like brutalist at the moment, the use of Concrete has obviously been chosen to help it 'blend' in a little with the rest of the Southern's 1930 concrete Art Deco-ness. (sympathetically as you say!)