Swanage Railway announce 2023 Wareham service

[Timetraveller]

It may be I misunderstood the new service, I had thought it was meant as a public transport option. If it's simply a heritage railway connecting to the mainline, it's fine, and it will mean I can visit a heritage railway that I've previously not. I do hope that period returns might become available in the through ticketing as that will make a short break rather than just a day trip much more appealing.

It is part the way through a trial period which was interrupted by Covid. After the trial period has finished it will be looked at as to whether it becomes a commuter service for school children and workers.

 

[Titfield]

It is part the way through a trial period which was interrupted by Covid. After the trial period has finished it will be looked at as to whether it becomes a commuter service for school children and workers.

The trial was meant to be in 2015 (60 days) and 2016 (90 days) but issues with the DMUs being refurbished created a hiatus. In 2017 the first year of the trial service (60 days) operated with hired in rolling stock and crews. The service carried some 13,000 passengers but incurred a loss of C£70K.

Linking the 2023 trial to the potential for a commuter service / school children service is simply not appropriate. The resource required to run a daily year round service with services from say 07:00 to 19:00 would be very considerable indeed and beyond anything a heritage railway could hope to operate. The real question, and one that is ducked, is "is there a way in which a mainline toc and a heritage railway could co-exist on a branch line, sharing resources where appropriate and without the toc services undermining the heritage railway operation?".

As regards the school children the school bus is by far the best operation as it has multiple stops in the Swanage area and takes the children straight to the school yard. By comparison Wareham Station is a very considerable walk from the schools in Wareham.

 

[Dai Corner]

It is part the way through a trial period which was interrupted by Covid. After the trial period has finished it will be looked at as to whether it becomes a commuter service for school children and workers.

Well, it won't be much good for that if operating hours have to be within a single shift for the traincrew as suggested above?

 

[Timetraveller]

The trial was meant to be in 2015 (60 days) and 2016 (90 days) but issues with the DMUs being refurbished created a hiatus. In 2017 the first year of the trial service (60 days) operated with hired in rolling stock and crews. The service carried some 13,000 passengers but incurred a loss of C£70K.

Linking the 2023 trial to the potential for a commuter service / school children service is simply not appropriate. The resource required to run a daily year round service with services from say 07:00 to 19:00 would be very considerable indeed and beyond anything a heritage railway could hope to operate. The real question, and one that is ducked, is "is there a way in which a mainline toc and a heritage railway could co-exist on a branch line, sharing resources where appropriate and without the toc services undermining the heritage railway operation?".

As regards the school children the school bus is by far the best operation as it has multiple stops in the Swanage area and takes the children straight to the school yard. By comparison Wareham Station is a very considerable walk from the schools in Wareham.

The line from Bournemouth to Weymouth could be closed in the future or severely reduced. Who knows what the cureent government thinking on railway lines and their survival. Bus subsidiaries for school children have be drastically reduced by councils with many children having to their own way to school . That leaves just the 40 Bus connecting Poole, Wareham and Swanage.

 

[Dai Corner]

The line from Bournemouth to Weymouth could be closed in the future or severely reduced. Who knows what the cureent government thinking on railway lines and their survival. Bus subsidiaries for school children have be drastically reduced by councils with many children having to their own way to school . That leaves just the 40 Bus connecting Poole, Wareham and Swanage.

I thought Councils had to provide free transport for children, depending on age and distance from their school?

 

[James H]

The real question, and one that is ducked, is "is there a way in which a mainline toc and a heritage railway could co-exist on a branch line, sharing resources where appropriate and without the toc services undermining the heritage railway operation?".

It's not been entirely ducked - there is provision for this in the agreements relating to the public funding and the lease of the line from Dorset Council.

The idea of a TOC operating onto the Swanage Railway was tested to some extent with the SWR services to Corfe Castle in 2018 and 2019 but the industrial dispute on SWR at the time rather put a dampener on things and meant it didn't operate to full potential.

Sadly the current climate on the mainline railway is no doubt less conducive to such experimentation.

I don't understand this board at times. There has been such clamour to get this service running and then when it is announced there is such negativity and many complaints about price and the fact it is a waste of money!

I'm glad you said that. I'm all for realism about finances but the defeatism on this thread is a bit disappointing - why bother trying anything?

 

[Titfield]

It's not been entirely ducked - there is provision for this in the agreements relating to the public funding and the lease of the line from Dorset Council.

The idea of a TOC operating onto the Swanage Railway was tested to some extent with the SWR services to Corfe Castle in 2018 and 2019 but the industrial dispute on SWR at the time rather put a dampener on things and meant it didn't operate to full potential.

Sadly the current climate on the mainline railway is no doubt less conducive to such experimentation.


I'm glad you said that. I'm all for realism about finances but the defeatism on this thread is a bit disappointing - why bother trying anything?

Having what were effectively "one off services" by SWR to Corfe Castle only (not all the way to Swanage) with specially selected crews (including Chris Loder then a senior manager with SWR) hardly tests the "points of friction" between mainline toc and heritage rail.

 

[paul1609]

It's not been entirely ducked - there is provision for this in the agreements relating to the public funding and the lease of the line from Dorset Council.

The idea of a TOC operating onto the Swanage Railway was tested to some extent with the SWR services to Corfe Castle in 2018 and 2019 but the industrial dispute on SWR at the time rather put a dampener on things and meant it didn't operate to full potential.

Sadly the current climate on the mainline railway is no doubt less conducive to such experimentation.


I'm glad you said that. I'm all for realism about finances but the defeatism on this thread is a bit disappointing - why bother trying anything?

The SWR services in 2018 and 2019 used spare capacity in the diesel fleet. If such capacity exists in 2023 then it urgently needs to be hired to FGW to enable them to meet their existing commitments on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route rather than trundling down Heritage Railways at 25 mph on Seaside Specials.
If a heritage railway can't make a Wareham Service pay a mainline TOC will make a larger loss unless there's going to be huge amounts in Taxpayers subsidy paid.
Quite why the Ex Dorset CC didn't understand that is the biggest mystery.

 

[DarloRich]

With many others I campaigned like a demon to get a service from Wareham to Swanage but this is not the service we worked for.

Too expensive. Ridiculous waiting times at Wareham which will ensure the public won’t use it a second time with the children saying ‘when are we getting there?”
Slow running time, surely they could have got 40 mph between Worgret Junction & Norden. Southern Region had 60 mph all the way.
Trains starting too late & finishing too early.
And finally running for only a few months each year.
It is as if it has been designed not to attract the public.

I pray I am wrong. I want it to be a huge success.

never let perfect be the enemy of good enough

 

[James H]

With many others I campaigned like a demon to get a service from Wareham to Swanage but this is not the service we worked for.

Too expensive. Ridiculous waiting times at Wareham which will ensure the public won’t use it a second time with the children saying ‘when are we getting there?”
Slow running time, surely they could have got 40 mph between Worgret Junction & Norden. Southern Region had 60 mph all the way.
Trains starting too late & finishing too early.
And finally running for only a few months each year.
It is as if it has been designed not to attract the public.

I pray I am wrong. I want it to be a huge success.

I'd love to see a service that ran for longer in the day, was faster and cheaper.

But I'd rather have what's being offered this year than nothing at all, as I recognise that an all-day service at lower fares would require subsidy that is not likely to be forthcoming in the current circumstances.

And if this year's effert provides some insights into how the mainline connection can viably be used in future years, so much the better.

(it would be fascinating to know how the finances would stack up differently if the Swanage Railway were able to run this year's trains itself rather than using WCRC, but I suspect the difference might not be all that much when weighed against the costs of all the compliance activity needed to be a TOC in their own right.)

 

[341o2]

The trial was meant to be in 2015 (60 days) and 2016 (90 days) but issues with the DMUs being refurbished created a hiatus. In 2017 the first year of the trial service (60 days) operated with hired in rolling stock and crews. The service carried some 13,000 passengers but incurred a loss of C£70K.

These events were outside the railway's control, rather like plans to overhaul the T9 and put it into service were scuppered by finding unexpected mechanical faults.
The wheels and axles of the DMU failed an ultrasonic test, therefore the unit would not get its mainline certificate without replacements which had to be sourced in the USA as British engineering does not work with Imperial anymore.
As part of the T&C of being granted finance to run the service, such as providing proper gates at Norden, the 2017 trial had to go ahead, and it was obvious from the start that hiring rolling stock and crews would result in a major loss. A repeat of this is unsustainable.

It was noted that 75% of all passenger journeys for the service arrived at Wareham by SWT train in 2017,

The service must prove itself viable in its current 90 day format before any consideration of increasing the level of service

 

[williamn]

If 75% of passengers came from SWT in 2017 all the more reason to provide decent connection times.

 

[Trainlog]

As someone who often travels to heritage railways by national rail its fair to say it does definitely help if the heritage railway is a short walk from the national rail one. There are some good stations at this my personal favourite being Alton for the Mid Hants railway and it should be in many heritage railways best interests to try and allow for all audiences to enjoy heritage railways by whatever means of showing up there.

I admit its expensive and diesel operated, but i do think that what the Swanage and West Somerset railway are doing is a good step in the right direction as otherwise the only chance you will get of enjoying them by train is paying near £100 for a rail tour on selected dates, no garuntee that your rostered steam loco will work, Early start late finish and little opportunities to explore the 2 lines if you are only there for a few hours. These 2 lines have made a risk but i do believe that if its successful the DMU links will benefit them in the long run if it means there is a way of getting to them easily.

For those who say 'why not use the bus' the thing is after travelling such a distance the last thing you want after travelling a few hours to get to the nearest station for the heritage railway is a bus as it is more expenses, slow, depends on the area some might be frequent others might be hourly and though many on this site would probably take it would the public want a bus journey before they step onto the heritage railway platform.

The only exception i see to a bus being accepted if the railway will never get a mainline connection is to at least make it part of the novelty of the experience. The Epping Ongar - though it has the potential to have a station right next door to the Central line station, at least shuttles you between Epping and North weald on a vintage bus and it does add onto the fun of the experience.

The only other way i have found an interesting way of getting to a heritage railway has to be the fact that for the majority of the route from Cheltenham (NR) to Cheltenham racecourse you are walking along the old line however it is time consuming if you just want to get to the line straight away.

 

[paul1609]

As someone who often travels to heritage railways by national rail its fair to say it does definitely help if the heritage railway is a short walk from the national rail one. There are some good stations at this my personal favourite being Alton for the Mid Hants railway and it should be in many heritage railways best interests to try and allow for all audiences to enjoy heritage railways by whatever means of showing up there.

I admit its expensive and diesel operated, but i do think that what the Swanage and West Somerset railway are doing is a good step in the right direction as otherwise the only chance you will get of enjoying them by train is paying near £100 for a rail tour on selected dates, no garuntee that your rostered steam loco will work, Early start late finish and little opportunities to explore the 2 lines if you are only there for a few hours. These 2 lines have made a risk but i do believe that if its successful the DMU links will benefit them in the long run if it means there is a way of getting to them easily.

For those who say 'why not use the bus' the thing is after travelling such a distance the last thing you want after travelling a few hours to get to the nearest station for the heritage railway is a bus as it is more expenses, slow, depends on the area some might be frequent others might be hourly and though many on this site would probably take it would the public want a bus journey before they step onto the heritage railway platform.

The only exception i see to a bus being accepted if the railway will never get a mainline connection is to at least make it part of the novelty of the experience. The Epping Ongar - though it has the potential to have a station right next door to the Central line station, at least shuttles you between Epping and North weald on a vintage bus and it does add onto the fun of the experience.

The only other way i have found an interesting way of getting to a heritage railway has to be the fact that for the majority of the route from Cheltenham (NR) to Cheltenham racecourse you are walking along the old line however it is time consuming if you just want to get to the line straight away.

The problem for me with that and the Swanage is the bus really is part of the novelty experience. Like Id suggest the majority of the customers arriving by National Rail I come from the east via Bournemouth where outside there's the no 50 bus often open topped in summer. It then travels through Bournemouth Town Centre and along the seafront and skirts Poole Harbour to Sandbanks where it gets priority on to the chain ferry itself a novel experience with the high tidal flows across the mouth of Poole Harbour. The journey then continues along the stunning Studland Bay climbs up on to the Purbeck Downs from where you drop to Swanage along the seafront to outside the iconic steam railway station getting there before either of the via Wareham alternatives.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Count me out at those prices! It would be a nice little novelty to do the track from Wareham to Norden, but I absolutely don't value that enough to pay out that sort of money.

Wareham to Norden is only £10 return. The steeper price to Swanage is presumably so that it doesn't undercut the steam fares.

Although the publicity says through fares will be available from SWR, the only mention of Swanage on the SWR website is four years out of date and suggests getting a bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wareham to Norden is only £10 return

That might just be to make it look better, though. Norden isn't a useful destination for that service, it's a P&R car park in a field. You can walk to Corfe Castle from it but it's a fair way and mostly down the road; you wouldn't choose that for a hike.

Most people want Corfe Castle or Swanage. The odd few might want one of the other halts if camping/staying in a hotel near it.

 

[zwk500]

never let perfect be the enemy of good enough

But it does have to be good enough for people to use it.

If 75% of passengers came from SWT in 2017 all the more reason to provide decent connection times.

Not always as simple as that. The connection from Wareham is only on the down line, so a train from the Swanage railway needs to run wrong-road from Worgret Jn to Wareham, then reverse (although it can use either platform), and then run right direction to Norden. I don't know how close the services get to crossing at Wareham, but it would be very difficult to provide connections into both services simultaneously. You then also need to fit into the Swanage railway timetable, or rewrite that completely. Makes it awkward if you're trying to meet the down London in the morning and the up London in the evening.

 

[norbitonflyer]

That might just be to make it look better, though. Norden isn't a useful destination for that service, it's a P&R car park in a field. You can walk to Corfe Castle from it but it's a fair way and mostly down the road; you wouldn't choose that for a hike.

Most people want Corfe Castle or Swanage. The odd few might want one of the other halts if camping/staying in a hotel near it.

Corfe Castle is also £10

 

[Bletchleyite]

Corfe Castle is also £10

That's not a bad price at all in that case.

 

[DarloRich]

But it does have to be good enough for people to use it.

Why would you suggest it isn't usable? From what I can see it is good enough to use. Like I said: It isn't perfect but it is good enough.

 

[jupiter]

That might just be to make it look better, though. Norden isn't a useful destination for that service, it's a P&R car park in a field. You can walk to Corfe Castle from it but it's a fair way and mostly down the road; you wouldn't choose that for a hike.

Most people want Corfe Castle or Swanage. The odd few might want one of the other halts if camping/staying in a hotel near it.

If you walk down the road it is but round the back of the castle involves crossing one main and one minor road, apart from that it's on footpaths, tracks, with lovely views of the castle, railway and viaduct from Castle View Crossing plus the other side of the castle further down the walk. I agree, the road route is pretty dreadful but there is an alternative to the village.

 

[James H]

The signed footpath between Norden and Corfe Castle visitor centre (with onward walking route round the back of the castle) is pretty pleasant and offers good views of both the castle and passing trains

 

[notverydeep]

Well the poor connections with trains from London - 30 minute connections with trains from the London direction aren't attractive. And the fare is unattractive compared to the bus, though I understand the reasons for it. Neither of these things will encourage people to leave cars at home or to take the train over the bus.

I am not sure that either of these factors are the deterrents to one key types of prospective passenger that they might seem. Many retired people travel by train more as they get older and less confident about driving longer distances. For this demographic a 30 minute connection is viewed as good insurance against disruption and the anxiety of possibly missing it (for example, my mother is in this group and would get panicky if I suggested a less than 20 minute interchange time). This group is also likely to prioritise a more seamless train journey over interchanging to a bus (even though many would get that bit of the journey free of charge). To a degree their choice will be between train all of the way or driving or going somewhere else, rather than saving the fare and a little bit of time.

It is quite another question whether this group's preferences and the attractiveness to day-trippers are enough to make the Wareham service commercially viable in the long run. It will be interesting to see how any through fares from London, the Midlands and elsewhere in the UK are marketed well enough to bring in additional visitors (that is those who wouldn't have simply driven (or travelled by bus) to Norden anyway.

 

[Barclay]

My observations suggest that there is a 21-minute wait at Wareham between arriving from the East for the first train (1048) and the Swanage connection arriving (1109) - it departs 10 mins later. If you spend the maximum length of time in the Purbecks, the last train back arrives Wareham at 1710 to connect with a 1730 departure. Those timings look pretty reasonable for the average day-tripper, who this service is aimed at. You'd want tighter connections for a commuter service, but that's a different market.

 

[Titfield]

It is quite another question whether this group's preferences and the attractiveness to day-trippers are enough to make the Wareham service commercially viable in the long run. It will be interesting to see how any through fares from London, the Midlands and elsewhere in the UK are marketed well enough to bring in additional visitors (that is those who wouldn't have simply driven (or travelled by bus) to Norden anyway.

I very much doubt that Swanage Railway have the moneys to invest in marketing the service to a wide audience. Undoubtedly it will be promoted through social media and via the heritage railway press to the "enthusiast" but getting it to the mass market is a different story.

 

[williamn]

My observations suggest that there is a 21-minute wait at Wareham between arriving from the East for the first train (1048) and the Swanage connection arriving (1109) - it departs 10 mins later. If you spend the maximum length of time in the Purbecks, the last train back arrives Wareham at 1710 to connect with a 1730 departure. Those timings look pretty reasonable for the average day-tripper, who this service is aimed at. You'd want tighter connections for a commuter service, but that's a different market.

Guess it's horses for courses. 31 minutes at Wareham, 20 minutes of it outside doesn't sound appealing to me, and I imagine even less so for families with impatient children. The catchment area is far greater from the London direction than from the West, so I'd imagine meeting trains from the East would / should be a priority.

 

[James H]

I don't think the 20 minute wait for the Swanage DMU to trundle into view is that bad (perhaps not ideal, but not a disaster) and given the two-hour interval between trains to Swanage, on balance the proposed timetable is preferable to a tighter connection with a corresponding higher risk of a 2 hour plus wait!

 

[Barclay]

Guess it's horses for courses. 31 minutes at Wareham, 20 minutes of it outside doesn't sound appealing to me, and I imagine even less so for families with impatient children. The catchment area is far greater from the London direction than from the West, so I'd imagine meeting trains from the East would / should be a priority.

None of the users of the Wareham-Swanage link will be familiar with the service, so a 20-30 minute connection is quite sensible. Don't forget that the users of the service may not be used to using trains. I imagine many will not be aware of the through ticket, so will need to buy an add-on for the Swanage Branch at Wareham which could take time. The station will be staffed most of the time the Swanage service is running, so the waiting room will be open. I am sure the Swanage Railway will have a volunteer or two on hand at Wareham to assist with any enquiry.

I have boisterous young children and a 20-minute wait in between trains is quite literally child's play!

 

[yorksrob]

20 minute connection or thereabouts is fine for me.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I imagine many will not be aware of the through ticket, so will need to buy an add-on for the Swanage Branch at Wareham which could take time.

Especially since neither SWR nor the Trainline's journey planners include it. National Rail does, but says there are no trains. Swanage Railway's website gives the train times but doesn't seem to be able to sell through tickets either.