Swiss Rail Journey

[sdrennan]

Got a big birthday so wife and I want to take a rail journey in Switzerland. Bernina Express, Glacier express etc. The tours are very expensive and I prefer not to be in a group and tied down.

Any suggestions on best place to start for a DIY tour.

Home is Glasgow so may be best to get flight to Europe rather than Train all the way

 

[158801]

An itinerary would depend upon the amount of time you have.

Many years ago I flew into Geneva then travelled to Chur via Zurich.
The next day we went to Poschivo (on the route of the Bernina Express)
The next day we travelled to Brig (on the route of the Glacier Express)
The following say we went to Interlaken
The following day we headed back to Geneva.

Tickets can be purchased from www.loco2.com or a pass maybe advantageous www.swiss-pass.ch. General train times from bahn.co.uk

When we've travelled in the "express" trains we've found that they are bad for taking photos due to reflections in the window. Other trains travel along the same route which are cheaper and less busy, but you may have to change trains somewhere.

 

[burns20]

Sdrennan I've sent you a Private Message

Daniel King
Rail Adventures Travel

 

[30907]

You need to take decisions about whether you do several 1/2-night stops or choose a couple of bases for day trips. Also, just how much into railways you both are, as there are innumerable delightful lines.

Of the longer distance routes, the Bernina plus Albula would be top of my list, the "old" Lötschberg second, plus the Centovalli. The Gotthard route is worth doing before it loses most of its traffic, too. Friends have recommended the Furka steam railway.

If you have a Swiss Pass or similar, I'd do one of the mountain passes like the Grimsel, at least one lake steamer trip, and at least one of the mountain-climbing lines.

But all this is going to take time and - being Switzerland - lots of money

I agree with 158801 about choosing trains where the windows open (on the slow mountain routes).

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

You could base yourself in Filisur for a couple of nights to cover the Bernina/RhB network (Hotel Grischuna receives many enthusiasts and, by Swiss standards, is good value. You could then transfer to Brig via the Glacier Express/Andermatt and stay there for a few nights to cover the BLS, Zermatt, Gornergrat and also the BOB/Jungfrau region. I often stay at the Good Night Inn, again good value but a little mass produced in feel. You could go up a few stops on the BLS to Ausserberg for the Hotel Bahnhof which has great views but is right next to the old main line (which still has lots of freight on it). You could then go to Zermatt and Interlaken are really just mass tourist places these days, so I would suggest staying away from them. You could then go to Meiringen where there are number of not outrageous hotels, Sarnen (Hotel Krone) or Luzern (which really is quite pricey, but there is an Ibis Styles in the centre which is vaguely affordable) for the railways in Central Switzerland. You will find the Swiss Pass reasonable value: you can either buy it in advance at the Swiss Rail Centre in London or at the Airport when you arrive. It's only available to non Swiss Citizens so you need your passport number. Have a great trip.

 

[AndrewE]

I find that to get the best out of it I need a map of where I'm travelling good enough to show the railway lines. That way you have an idea when loops and spiral tunnels are coming up and you don't get disorientated trying to work out what the other lines in view are!
Enjoy it... You've reminded me now and I shall have to get back there sometime soon.
A

 

[Bletchleyite]

A nice loop you can do in a couple of days is Geneva-Montreux-Zweisimmen-Luzern-Zuerich-Bern-Lausanne-Geneva. I love the Lavaux line along Lake Geneva/Lac Leman - one of my favourite routes in the world. For some reason, proper mainlines through impressive scenery just work better for me than narrow gauge ones - but the above loop has the best of both worlds.

 

[Gordon]

.

If you search this forum using a key word of your choice you will find various previous discussions on Swiss journeys in this forum.

As ever with these things, Ideally, we would sit down over a coffee with maps and books to hand and I could explain in great detail all about where to go and what to see on Swiss railways, which I have been travelling since 1960.

As we haven't got that luxury, I'm going to keep my reply simple.

Fares: For a one-off trip, there is no substitute for the Swiss Pass rail rover. It gives you the flexibility to go where you want when you want by bus, train, boat, mountain railway etc.

Getting there: I would recommend flying Edinburgh - Basel as a hassle free route into Switzerland

Alternatives are Glasgow - Geneva, or Easyjet to Malpensa (north of Milan but as close to the Swiss border as it is to Milan!)
.

I would highly recommend these items as the starting point for your research:

1) the guidebook Switzerland Without a Car, by Anthony Lambert

2) a general Swiss road map (as long as it shows railways) e.g. Michelin red number 729

3) a synoptic map of Swiss railways (source: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...I4ALMFuTheB5FC8GA&sig2=XegN-4oKVxYTAGy4ahpOow

4) A copy of the European Rail Timetable to check times and how long it takes to get where from where.

Not sure what type of hotel you favour but you can do most of Switzerland economically by staying at the Ibis hotels round the country. There Ibis (and other cheap end Accor group hotels) near stations in various key places e.g. Luzern, Chur, Zurich, Basel, Delemont. Plus the already suggested Good Night Inn in Brig.

Finally, one key recommendation: it is easy to get drawn towards the 'famous' Swiss rail mountain journeys. But don't dismiss even the most ordinary looking Swiss line. Nearly every railway line in Switzerland is scenic in a uniquely 'Swiss' way, frequently farms with animals, industrial sites and housing estates can be found immediately adjacent to one another.
As the country and its cities are so small, you only have to travel a few minutes from the city centres to reach quintessential Swiss countryside (yes, even including cows with bells even in the flatter parts of the country!) even if you are still on a suburban train.




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[embers25]

.

If you search this forum using a key word of your choice you will find various previous discussions on Swiss journeys in this forum.

As ever with these things, Ideally, we would sit down over a coffee with maps and books to hand and I could explain in great detail all about where to go and what to see on Swiss railways, which I have been travelling since 1960.

As we haven't got that luxury, I'm going to keep my reply simple.

Fares: For a one-off trip, there is no substitute for the Swiss Pass rail rover. It gives you the flexibility to go where you want when you want by bus, train, boat, mountain railway etc.

Getting there: I would recommend flying Edinburgh - Basel as a hassle free route into Switzerland

Alternatives are Glasgow - Geneva, or Easyjet to Malpensa (north of Milan but as close to the Swiss border as it is to Milan!)
.

I would highly recommend these items as the starting point for your research:

1) the guidebook Switzerland Without a Car, by Anthony Lambert

2) a general Swiss road map (as long as it shows railways) e.g. Michelin red number 729

3) a synoptic map of Swiss railways (source: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...I4ALMFuTheB5FC8GA&sig2=XegN-4oKVxYTAGy4ahpOow

4) A copy of the European Rail Timetable to check times and how long it takes to get where from where.

Not sure what type of hotel you favour but you can do most of Switzerland economically by staying at the Ibis hotels round the country. There Ibis (and other cheap end Accor group hotels) near stations in various key places e.g. Luzern, Chur, Zurich, Basel, Delemont. Plus the already suggested Good Night Inn in Brig.

Finally, one key recommendation: it is easy to get drawn towards the 'famous' Swiss rail mountain journeys. But don't dismiss even the most ordinary looking Swiss line. Nearly every railway line in Switzerland is scenic in a uniquely 'Swiss' way, frequently farms with animals, industrial sites and housing estates can be found immediately adjacent to one another.
As the country and its cities are so small, you only have to travel a few minutes from the city centres to reach quintessential Swiss countryside (yes, even including cows with bells even in the flatter parts of the country!) even if you are still on a suburban train.

I'm doing an overnight trip in March for 69 euro first class from Berlin to Tirano via Munich, Friedrichshafen, Schaffhausen, Zurich, Chur and St Moritz which covers a couple of scenic swiss lines and on local trains in Switzerland as they are less busy and often have windows you can pull down for pics unlike the named "Expresses" that usually aren't much quicker any way.

I also discovered that a trip on German rail is allowed a maximum of 9 connections. This matters as most German tickets (and Swiss tickets) will allow VERY circuitous routes, sometimes even including doubling back and overnight stays and so you can link several days into one cheap advance ticket.

 

[ac6000cw]

Any suggestions on best place to start for a DIY tour.

I can't add much to what has already been said, but:

1. If you haven't been to Switzerland before - just go, you'll wonder why you took so long to get around to it, the scenery is even better in the flesh than it is in the pictures. It can be expensive (especially some of the mountain railways and cable cars) so choose carefully - eating out at lunchtime can be much cheaper than in the evenings, for example.

2. I agree with Neil that combining a 'sweeping round the fast curves along the lakeshore' mainline ride with a ride on one of the partly-rack railway routes is good (I quite like the SBB Luzern-Meiringen-Interlaken line for the latter)

3. The old Lotschberg Pass line (over the pass, not through the modern base tunnel) is a very good ride, as is the Gotthard Pass line.

4. The other area I particularly like is the south-eastern corner - RhB lines radiating out from Chur to St.Moritz, Davos, Tirano etc.

 

[sdrennan]

Thanks for the feedback. Lots of things to look at

I like the idea on flying to Basel then returning from Milan . Definitely want to do the route of Bernina and Glacier express but need to think what else

I do have to be careful as it is a holiday as well so don't want to be on trains all the time (My wife would not let me)

 

[Greenback]

You can do the Bernina route to Tirano in one day, but going on to Milan does mean you can travel along the eastern side of Lake Como. If you have time, you can get off at Varenna Esino, cross to Bellagio and then continue on the water to Como, where you can catch another train to Milan.

I've recently had a look at flying to Geneva, getting the train to Brig via Martigny, then going down to Zermatt and back and on to Chur, where I'd stay again to cover the Bernina line and the route to Arose, which I've never done. I;d then ehad back to Zurich or Geneva to fly home.

I'd love to go down to Lugano and stay there for a couple of days as well, but that would take more time.

 

[sarahj]

When I did it, I based myself in Luzern. There are some ok priced hotels near the station, and bought myself a swiss pass (first class ). Did the glacier%, gotthard (many times), jungfrau#, centrovalli, geneva to basle*, BLS. The drop down to the valley is amazing, lake konstanz and many others. Good fun. Mind that was early 90's, so included the boat train to Dover. Prince Filip Ferry to Ostend. Night train to Basle.

% You need a book this in advance. Just a few days before hand.
# A hint, Get to Interlarken, do some sightseeing, then go after lunch. You miss the crowds. There was an ice palace up there (not sure if it's still there), I had it to myself. Took the last train down with the workers and late train back to Luzern. You have to pay a supplement for the last bit from KS to the top tho'
* I did this train as it had a Mcdonalds dining car, long gone but the route to basle is a hidden gem, through some gorge's.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If you're in Lucerne there's the Swiss Transport Museum (think that's what it's called) by the lake. You could get the bus to it from the main train station and then walk back to the station by the lake

 

[furnessvale]

I find that to get the best out of it I need a map of where I'm travelling good enough to show the railway lines. That way you have an idea when loops and spiral tunnels are coming up and you don't get disorientated trying to work out what the other lines in view are!
Enjoy it... You've reminded me now and I shall have to get back there sometime soon.
A

SBB do a fold up map of Switzerland which makes the entire rail system the prominent feature.

Cecil J Allen's book "Swiss Travel Wonderland" has a useful appendix which tells you which side of the train to sit on to get the best views.

 

[30907]

If you're in Lucerne there's the Swiss Transport Museum (think that's what it's called) by the lake. You could get the bus to it from the main train station and then walk back to the station by the lake

Verkehrshaus. Which has or used to have a steamer landing stage as an alternative to bus.

 

[Gordon]

Verkehrshaus. Which has or used to have a steamer landing stage as an alternative to bus.

Has always had, and still has, a landing stage 'Verkehrshaus-Lido'. Also now has a main line station Luzern Verkehrshaus.

Plus the bus and trolleybus routes as before.

A wide range of options befitting a transport museum!





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[PhilipF]

We toured by rail round that country around fifteen years ago. Flew to Basle. Then from there on would usually reach a suitable town round midday - look for a hotel, book a room, then take another rail ride in the afternoon. and centre ourselves in that area for a couple of days or so.
Fifteen days of constant rail travel; utterly fantastic. Switzerland by rail is outstanding. Little wonder such a vast number of British people do it

 

[43096]

3. The old Lotschberg Pass line (over the pass, not through the modern base tunnel) is a very good ride, as is the Gotthard Pass line.

Although on the Lötschberg line the new carts they use are horribly uncomfortable (unusually for Switzerland) - something the MDTR here would be proud of!

For the Gotthard, if you haven't done it, you need to do it now before the new base tunnel opens later this year. The summit line has an hourly loco-hauled IR service over it, mainly hauled by the classically Swiss Re4/4ii locos. Freight traffic is still heavy and much of the SBB traffic uses the Re6/6 Bo-Bo-Bos, often multi-ed up with a Re4/4ii to form an "Re10/10".

 

[sdrennan]

Thanks to all who responded with helpful info. I am much further down the road now and closer to booking up.

I do have another associated question.

Looking on the sbb.ch site I found the train times.
Do you know if the times shown for June will be accurate or are they liable to change

Also observation is that trains finish quite early
e.g. Last train Chur to Filisur is before 8pm (there is a 20:56 but have to change to a bus at Thusis
Similar for trains from St Moritz and Davos

Finally is there an equivalent of Realtrainstimes site for Switzerland?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although on the Lötschberg line the new carts they use are horribly uncomfortable (unusually for Switzerland) - something the MDTR here would be proud of!

Do you reckon? While I enjoy a long InterCity train through the hills (best do one more Gotthard before the tunnel opens), I think the Loetschberger EMUs are lovely - comfortable seats, huge windows. Perfect for what they do.

 

[30907]

Thanks to all who responded with helpful info. I am much further down the road now and closer to booking up.

I do have another associated question.

Looking on the sbb.ch site I found the train times.
Do you know if the times shown for June will be accurate or are they liable to change

Also observation is that trains finish quite early
e.g. Last train Chur to Filisur is before 8pm (there is a 20:56 but have to change to a bus at Thusis
Similar for trains from St Moritz and Davos

Doubt there will be significant time changes, but you can find timetable PDF's on the site which IIRC will include all the known seasonal variations.

Yes, the RhB lines do finish rather early. Early to bed, and early to rise....

 

[43096]

Do you reckon? While I enjoy a long InterCity train through the hills (best do one more Gotthard before the tunnel opens), I think the Loetschberger EMUs are lovely - comfortable seats, huge windows. Perfect for what they do.

I agree on the windows, but the seats I found horribly uncomfortable. The whole train had a cheap plastic feel to it with poor build quality by Bombardier (sound familiar?) - certainly nothing like the build quality of the Stadler Flirt units.

 

[Gordon]

Do you know if the times shown for June will be accurate or are they liable to change

Also observation is that trains finish quite early

Finally is there an equivalent of Realtrainstimes site for Switzerland?

1) All Swiss timetables are fixed to the December - December European system. There are some winter/summer variations in RhB territory but all such variations are fully shown in the complete Swiss Kursbuch, every page of which is available to download at the Fahplanfelder website:

http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/en/welcome.html

2) Yes - trains stop running quite early, but this is the rural Swiss Alps, not busy-busy 24-hour Britain! When you visit the area you will notice how quiet things get after about 9pm, so there is no traffic to carry if the trains did run. Slightly different at weekends when the Swiss run late night pyjama trains for clubbers but only in the more urban parts of the country.

3) No

see this thread a few months ago:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=124060&referrerid=9106




.

 

[radamfi]

But if you want real time train information while you are travelling, for example through your smartphone, then that exists.

 

[Groningen]

The Chur - Sankt Moritz - Tirano line (as i did last month) is the only promise that you get to see snow. When ever i am in Switzerland i try to use. Remember it has no 3rd connection (cogwheel) between the tracks.

Also nice: Luzern - Meiringen and Zweisimmen - Montreux. And before it begins; the mainline from Milano to Zurich/Luzern/Basel. This year the new 57 kilometer tunnel will go into service and the highlights will be darkened. You will see the church of Wassen 3 times!

 

[33056]

I agree on the windows, but the seats I found horribly uncomfortable. The whole train had a cheap plastic feel to it with poor build quality by Bombardier (sound familiar?) - certainly nothing like the build quality of the Stadler Flirt units.

Totally agree with you on the subject of "Lötschbergers", the seats are awful. Another unit that I had a first ride on yesterday and was unimpressed with the seating is the new SBB DD class 511 built by Stadler, I found the second class seats are actually a little more comfortable than the first class ones!

The only difference between the classes appears to be extra padding in the first class seats which had the effect, to my mind at least, of making the actual area to sit on rather small - not helped by the fact that they are 2+2 rather than the more usual 2+1. One good thing about them was that they are nice and soft

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I find the EW IV A (1st class) seats terrible - no support at all. The EW IV B (2nd class) ones are much better.

OTOH, the 2nd class seats on the IC2000 double decker stock are so narrow that they are unusable. I always go 1st on these.

 

[sdrennan]

I was looking at a Swisspass for my travel intending to use an 8 day swiss travel pass however just realised I can get Interail pass for 1st class cheaper.

Are there any disadvantages doing this. I know Swiss pass covers Bus and 50% off on other journeys. What does Interrail cover

Welcome your normal super feedback

 

[Gordon]

I was looking at a Swisspass for my travel intending to use an 8 day swiss travel pass however just realised I can get Interail pass for 1st class cheaper.

Are there any disadvantages doing this. I know Swiss pass covers Bus and 50% off on other journeys. What does Interrail cover

Welcome your normal super feedback

The major disadvantage of Inter Rail is the small number of operators who allow free travel. The main SBB / BLS network and other key links are free, but not the smaller lines that are some of the ones you will want to use! Also not free would be post buses, lake steamers etc - all the quintissential elements of a Swiss holiday!

It is also very useful to be able to hop onto an urban bus or tram at a suitable interchange without the hassle of getting a local operators ticket.

The most famous (has been the case for decades) railway to opt out of accepting Inter Rail - even at a discount - is the MGB. Therefore if you want to do Zermatt - Brig - Andermatt - Göschenen - Disentis Muster you would have to stump up full fare.

Inter rail is only free on the following non-SBB lines:


BLS ;
FART Ferrovie Autolinee Regionali Ticinesi / SSIF Società Subalpina di Imprese Ferroviarie ie Centovalli railway Locarno - Domodossola;
MOB Montreux Oberland Bernois;
RhB Rhätische Bahn ;
SOB Südostbahn;
THURBO AG
ZB Zentralbahn ie Luzern - Interlaken

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