Swiss Rail Journey

[sdrennan]

Thanks Gordon

I think I will go back to plan A with the 8 day 2nd Class Swiss Pass. Glad I didn't say to my wife that I was buying 1st Class on Interrail. Save me explaining and avoid the disappointment.

Seems to be a few options to buys this. Is it best to buy on arrival into Switzerland or get it posted to me.
Recommendations?

 

[radamfi]

I've had a 3 day Inter Rail One Country pass for Switzerland and don't regret it. There are plenty of great rail lines that can still be used. If you intend to make a future trip with a Swiss Pass then I don't see the problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are some stunning mainlines in Switzerland. Personally, I prefer a proper long train on a scenic mainline than a narrow gauge train, though tastes do vary.

A must-do is the Riviera Line between Lausanne and Villeneuve/Aigle. One of the most stunning lines in the world in my view, running between vineyards and Lake Geneva.

 

[Gordon]

Probably better value (bank charges etc - wise) to pay the UK price from STC London.

I agree with Neil there are some great 'main line' scenic trains in CH, the Gotthard, Lötschberg and Lake Geneva shore routes are indeed all mega scenic from the comfort of a big main line train all available on Inter Rail

However, the beauty of the Swiss system and Swiss Pass for me is the simplicity of being able to hop off on a whim onto more local transport, be it a narrow gauge local light railway, bus, tram, trolleybus or lake steamer - and Swiss Pass makes it easier to make these spur of the moment choices

You did also the mention the necessary 'holiday' element to your trip which suggests you will want to do slower paced days - and the local narrow gauge lines are great for this. Plus the Swiss Pass gives you 480 museums as well

It would be useful now to know where you plan to base yourself as it will make a difference to what 'slower paced' excursions you can do.

For example a classic 'true holiday' slower paced day is to travel the full length of Lake Luzern Luzern - Fluelen on a paddle steamer (you'll love the steam whistles - some sound like an A4 pacific) and back by train.



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[ac6000cw]

For example a classic 'true holiday' slower paced day is to travel the full length of Lake Luzern Luzern - Fluelen on a paddle steamer (you'll love the steam whistles - some sound like an A4 pacific) and back by train.

I agree about the Lake Luzern steamers - when I did it some years ago, it was a beautifully maintained ship with crew in period uniforms to match (and it runs as part of the normal lake ferry service, so you see how it was done when it was all steam-powered ships). All that and stunning scenery too...

 

[blackfive460]

However, the beauty of the Swiss system and Swiss Pass for me is the simplicity of being able to hop off on a whim onto more local transport, be it a narrow gauge local light railway, bus, tram, trolleybus or lake steamer - and Swiss Pass makes it easier to make these spur of the moment choices

Also, don't forget the discounts on many mountain railways and cable cars, usually 50%, which make them much more affordable.

 

[sdrennan]

My plans have had to alter slightly and probably flying from Manchester now. Only 8 nights so difficult to fit everything in

Current plan
1: Early flight to Geneva , Train to Montreux then Golden pass line . potentially stay in Kandersteg
2: Interlaken Area
3: Interlaken Area: Maybe Jungfrau line?
4 Travel on Glacier express to Filsur
5 St Moritz
6 Chur (Maybe Arosa)
7 Klosters/Davos
8 Bernina Express then onwards to Milan (Overnight)
9 Lunchtime flight from Milan back to Manchester

If you have any improvements. Plan is to have 8 day swiss pass.

 

[Gordon]

My plans have had to alter slightly and probably flying from Manchester now. Only 8 nights so difficult to fit everything in

Current plan
1: Early flight to Geneva , Train to Montreux then Golden pass line . potentially stay in Kandersteg
2: Interlaken Area
3: Interlaken Area: Maybe Jungfrau line?
4 Travel on Glacier express to Falser
5 St Moritz
6 Chur (Maybe Arosa)
7 Klosters/Davos
8 Bernina Express then onwards to Milan (Overnight)
9 Lunchtime flight from Milan back to Manchester

If you have any improvements. Plan is to have 8 day swiss pass.

OK, suggestion by place number!:

Tips for 2 and 3 (Interlaken area):

• gives you another place where you can do Lake boat plus train (Lakes Thun and Brienz)
• Highly recommend a day trip to Bern. On arrival walk from the station through the city centre (ancient arcaded streets, famous clock, trams) and down to the Bear park by the river. We watched the city history presentation in the Bear park cinema. Trolleybus /tram back to station or enjoy the flowers and great view of the city from the Rosengarten.
• would go to Murren, not the Jungfrau, for two reasons (the Jungfrau ride is very expensive and is in tunnel for a lot of the route). You get a great view of the Jungfrau/Eiger from Murren and it is free on the Swiss Pass

4 Make sure you use ordinary trains - not the Glacier Express itself (unnecessary reservation fee, arguably 'too touristy')

7 Davos is a bit 'towny'. I would suggest getting off somewhere more rural to see a bit of 'real Switzerland.

I would recommend a trip to Scoul Tarasp. Off the beaten track for British tourists but a very nice ride and an interesting town at the end of it. (Plus it is currently served by loco hauled non-push pull trains)




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[Gerald Fiennes]

Ref to itinerary proposed by sdrennan:

MAN - GVA - Montreux - Kandersteg in a day is just about possible, particularly if you don't want a lunch stop, but note that in Swiss resort hotel like Kandersteg most of the arriving and eating is done quite early in the evening, eg. it's often all over by 2100 and you will get slightly frowned at in a very Swiss way for arriving too late, ie late check in is possible but not really the done thing. If you do go to Kandersteg, recommendations are Hotels Bernerhof and Viktoria (more or less opposite each other about 300m from the bahnhof). Both are very good, quite simple and relatively affordable!

Interlaken - Filisur via Glacier Express. Again, just about possible via Spiez - Visp/Brig, but quite a long journey that you might want to break up a bit (eg. stopover in Andermatt or Disentis/Muster for an hour?) if only to save your bank balance from buying food on the Glacier Express itself. As others have said, if you go in the low period just travel in the ordinary part of the train and save the supplement: it's not really worth it in IMHO.

Swiss Pass: just buy it at the ticket office at Geneva. It's quick and easy.

 

[blackfive460]

I'd also give a thumbs up to Mürren and suggest that, if you want to go up a mountain, do the Schilthorn cable car; it's a better viewpoint than the Jungfraujoch and much cheaper (50% discount with a Swiss pass). While the view down the Aletsch Glacier from the Jungfraujoch is pretty good, you are hemmed in by the Jungfrau and Mönch to either side whereas the Schilthorn is a true peak. After that, if time permits, you can also go to Wengen with your Swiss pass for some of the best views of the Lauterbrunnen valley.

Don't bother with the Glacier Express and the reservation fee. The scenery is just the same from ordinary trains and most have opening windows.

As an alternative for Interlaken to Filisur, why not do the Zentralbahn to Luzern (no longer loco hauled but very scenic) then do the Gotthard Nordrampe to Göschenen, MGB to Andermatt and onward from there?

Scuol-Tarasp gets a thumbs up from me too.

 

[30907]

If you are staying in Kandersteg for the Bernese Oberland, then Filisur is a reasonable trip.

I wouldn't give Chur a day to itself, though its a pleasant enough old town, but the circuit Filisur-Chur-Klosters-Davos-Filisur is well worth it. As is the Arosa branch if time allows..

How much time you want at Filisur depends whether you are into posh ski resorts how much time you want to spend in them!

I'm not, so I'd allocate some of the time to walking from Preda down to Bergün past all the spiral tunnels.

 

[radamfi]

It might be worth looking at staying at hotels in neighbouring countries as the extra train fare may be outweighed by the saving in hotel and restaurant costs. I've stayed in Mulhouse a few times.

 

[sdrennan]

As an alternative for Interlaken to Filisur, why not do the Zentralbahn to Luzern (no longer loco hauled but very scenic) then do the Gotthard Nordrampe to Göschenen, MGB to Andermatt and onward from there?

I looked at this option but will be very long and I need to weigh up my wants with my wifes patience.

If you have any Hotel suggestions for Interlaken area (Not too expensive) then I would be grateful

 

[Gordon]

I looked at this option but will be very long and I need to weigh up my wants with my wifes patience.

If you have any Hotel suggestions for Interlaken area (Not too expensive) then I would be grateful

Surely the 'Glacier Express' option would also be very long - by my reckoning Interlaken 08:30 - Filisur 17:00, especially if you are expecting to do the Lotschberg mountain route on the way, and if you were planning to have lunch stop (if so 1 hour in Andermatt is good, good value station buffet and interesting shunting.

The Hotel Bellevue in Spiez would be a good alternative to 'tourist trap' Interlaken. The view of the lake from Spiez upper town is superb. Stopping at Spiez after coming over from Montreux on day 1 would also help re the arrival time as commented on earlier




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[sdrennan]

Yet more questions so thanks in advance

Flights booked and working through Hotels

On the main scenic routes
Golden Pass
Glacier Express
Bernina Express

Which of the actual scenic trains have normal carriages attached that don't need a reservation. I think the Bernina is OK but confused when I read about the others

 

[Bletchleyite]

All the GoldenPass (MOB) trains except the chocolate train are normal, subsidised regional services with unreserved coaches, it just happens they are quite fancy coaches. But sitting up front and pretending to drive is fun

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

In reply to sdrennan last night, all of the trains you have identified have 'ordinary' bits as well as 'supplement' bits, the last time I did this (which was about three years ago). But unless you are going right at the superpeak in late July/early August, I would just see how it looks and, if you want to, pay the supplement to the conductor on the day rather than making reservations.
Now that the CHF is so expensive, the trains are not that full.

 

[Groningen]

What i have noticed that you pay a supplement only with the first class panorama car with reservation for 5 Swiss Francs.

 

[blackfive460]

When I was there last year the Glacier Express compulsory reservation fee was 33CHF and the Bernina Express was 14CHF.

 

[Gordon]

Yet more questions so thanks in advance

Flights booked and working through Hotels

On the main scenic routes
Golden Pass
Glacier Express
Bernina Express

Which of the actual scenic trains have normal carriages attached that don't need a reservation. I think the Bernina is OK but confused when I read about the others

You can travel on ordinary coaches on ordinary trains on all those routes without reservation and that is what I have been recommending in this thread.

Except, if you want to travel throughout from Chur or Filisur to Tirano on the Bernina Express. This would require reservation and supplement. The alternative is to take ordinary trains and change at Samedan and Pontresina

To avoid the reservation-only Glacier Express sets on the MGB network you do need to take regional trains and change at Andermatt and Disentis - but the switch between trains is not really onerous as the stations are not huge - especially Andermatt.

To clarify, on the MGB network the Glacier Express (GEX) sets run separately from other trains (for traction haulage capability reasons). On the RhB the GEX sets run separately Disentis - Chur, but are combined with the normal Chur - St Moritz hauled sets for the last part of the journey from Chur.

The Golden Pass route only needs a reservation if you are determined to sit in the dome car on the 'VIP' sets - not worth it in my humble opinion. To clarify the 'Golden Pass' is the MOB (Montreal Oberland Bernois) railway Montreux- Zweisimmen, connecting with the BLS Zweisimmen - Spiez. The MOB operates several different types of train. I like the proper local services hauled by GDe4/4 loco or the unique 4001 class artic railcars, but the types are:

Local (ordinary hauled classic Swiss ng stock)
Golden Pass Classic (historic coaches with 'belle époque seating - lovely)
Golden Pass Panoramic (with VIP dome end cars and Ge4/4III loco in the middle)
Goldenpass Panoramic (without the dome end cars)



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[Bletchleyite]

Local (ordinary hauled classic Swiss ng stock)

They also use 2-car EMUs on less busy services, these have the same interiors as the LHCS.

Golden Pass Classic (historic coaches with 'belle époque seating - lovely)
Golden Pass Panoramic (with VIP dome end cars and Ge4/4III loco in the middle)
Goldenpass Panoramic (without the dome end cars)

All of these, to clarify, run as subsidised Regio services and are usable with a regular walk-up ticket, though some seats will be reserved and a supplement is required to travel in the dome cars.

 

[sdrennan]

thanks
On these 3 longer journeys we will have luggage so trying to reduce the pain of changing but also keeping an eye on the cost.

I had spotted on some photos that several panoramic trains had local trains attached however I now realise that is only for part of the route.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had spotted on some photos that several panoramic trains had local trains attached however I now realise that is only for part of the route.

With the one exception of the Chocolate Train to Broc and the odd charter, *all* Goldenpass/MOB trains are standard local trains without exception and whatever the rolling stock.

 

[Gordon]

thanks
On these 3 longer journeys we will have luggage so trying to reduce the pain of changing but also keeping an eye on the cost.

I had spotted on some photos that several panoramic trains had local trains attached however I now realise that is only for part of the route.

I'm not sure how far you have got with hotel bookings, but as I understand it at present, you are now planning two bases, Interlaken (two free days, your 'days 2 and 3') and Chur area (3 free days, your 'days 5,6 and 7') (that's what I would recommend anyway - the fewer bases the better in my view)

To enhance the experience, you still have the alternative to save the 'Glacier Express' route for a day trip without luggage on day 5, 6 or 7. You could switch between the hotel bases by main line SBB trains (larger coaches so somewhat easier to deal with luggage than on the metre gauge stock), e.g. Interlaken - Bern - Zurich - Chur. This route has some advantages

(1) it is quicker than going via the mountains, potentially attractive when switching between hotels
(2) you would see a bit of the 'Mittelland' - the very pleasant undulating central plateau of Switzerland
(3) you would get the very scenic run along the Walensee lake on the Zurich - Chur train, then pass through 'Heidiland'

You could then do the most scenic section of the 'Furka-Oberalp' part of the Glacier Express route, which is Chur - Andermatt (the rest is less scenic since the Furka tunnel was built) on a day trip, even better would be a circular day trip Chur - Andermatt - Göschenen - Wassen spirals - Arth Goldau - Sudostbahn - Pfäffikon SZ - Ziegelbrucke - Chur

To sum up the above, the advantage of giving yourself as many 'free option' days as possible (as opposed to fixing yourself to travelling a 'classic scenic route' on a specific day is the weather. In Switzerland it is always worth giving yourself the chance to avoid poor weather in one area by going in a different direction to that originally planned for the day.




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[waynenm1]

Although somewhat dated, "The Railfan Guide to Switzerland" by George H. Drury has quite a bit of useful route information. The author was an editor of many of the Kalmbach Publishing Co. rail volumes. wf.

 

[sdrennan]

Thanks all
Hereare my plans as I now have Flights and Hotels booked

Day 1 Arrive Geneva . Train to Montreux then slow train to Spiez (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 2 local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 3 Local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 4 Travel to Brig then on the route of Glacier Express to Filisur, (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 5 Local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 6 Local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 7 local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 8 Bernina Express route to Tirano then onto Varenna, Italy (Stay overnight
Day 9 On to Malpensa (Fly home)

This gives me 2 days in Spiez are and 3 days in Filisur.
Spiez area :visit Interlaken and maybe Wengen or a trip to Bern
Filisr Area : Chur and onto Arosa, St Moritz, and some walks locally

 

[D1009]

Thanks all
Hereare my plans as I now have Flights and Hotels booked

Day 1 Arrive Geneva . Train to Montreux then slow train to Spiez (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 2 local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 3 Local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 4 Travel to Brig then on the route of Glacier Express to Filisur, (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 5 Local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 6 Local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 7 local (Hotel Grischuna Filisur)
Day 8 Bernina Express route to Tirano then onto Varenna, Italy (Stay overnight
Day 9 On to Malpensa (Fly home)

This gives me 2 days in Spiez are and 3 days in Filisur.
Spiez area :visit Interlaken and maybe Wengen or a trip to Bern
Filisr Area : Chur and onto Arosa, St Moritz, and some walks locally

I can certainly recommend the Hotel Grischuna, but remember the last trains from all directions arrive there around 2100, if you're planning any long days..

 

[30907]

Looks good to me. Enjoy!

If you can plan your packing, using the baggage service might be worth it for Spiez-Filisur (I've only used it to the airport). Unfortunately same day express service only works to Chur!

https://www.sbb.ch/en/station-services/services/luggage-and-flight-luggage/luggage-product-comparison/luggage.html

 

[Greenback]

I am very envious. It looks like a very nice trip. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

 

[endecotp]

Day 2 local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)
Day 3 Local (Hotel Bellevue in Spiez)

Go to Lauterbrunnen and then on to Murren by the BLM. It's another interesting railway and the views from Murren to the Jungfrau, Monch and Eiger are absolutely fantastic.

Or go to Kandersteg, and walk or cable-car up to the Oeschinensee.

Or go to Schynige Platte.

All lovely places. Explore on Google Earth.