SWR after May

[nick parish]

Does anyone know what will change - if anything - when SWR is ‘nationalised’ later this month?

 

[PaulJ]

Probably nothing at all!

 

[Sealink]

I don't think there will be anything big, just the details of who owns the franchise will be updated on the website.

 

[Class 466]

Nothing beoynd any removal of any mentions of First or MTR. Business as usual - things will change will change more gradually rather than overnight.

 

[moley]

Something is changing. There is a press event during the working week before which is fully embargoed until the Sunday change over day.

It’s not in a station for a change, suggesting something to reveal!

 

[GW43125]

Same people, same trains, same old [redacted], new polo shirt.

 

[I_am_Nobody]

new polo shirt

SWR’s only recently decided it wants to allow Guards to wear polo shirts (by recently, I mean a year or two/three ago), I don’t think they’ll roll out a new one this soon…

 

[GW43125]

SWR’s only recently decided it wants to allow Guards to wear polo shirts (by recently, I mean a year or two/three ago), I don’t think they’ll roll out a new one this soon…

Having previously baked on a platform in 40C heat with a non-breathable double-sided hi vis, I can believe that

 

[danielnez1]

I'm guessing South Western Railway Limited is being primed to take over: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03266760

 

[Helvellyn]

Same people, same trains, same old [redacted], new polo shirt.

New MD though

 

[Mainline421]

I can't vouch for the accuracy or the original source, but it has been reported that nationalising SWR will be used to launch GBR as a public facing brand

Great British Railways brand to appear on trains from May​

The new logo featuring the Union Jack will be unveiled on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government


The British Rail “Double Arrow” logo was launched in 1965 to demonstrate a modernised train network under Labour prime minister Harold Wilson. Sixty years on and the current Labour administration is plotting a similar branding shake-up — but this time to champion the quintessential “Britishness” of the railways.

Government officials are finalising the new brand for Great British Railways with the Union Jack set to feature prominently.


A British Railways advert from the 1970s
ALAMY
The new logo is scheduled to be unveiled in May, on the first trains to be fully nationalised under the Labour government.

The government has opted to nationalise operators on a piecemeal basis as private contracts expire. Legacy branding — from Avanti to Southern — will disappear as operators are brought into public ownership over the coming months

https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/companies/article/great-british-railways-will-fly-the-union-jack-df0f2r5sp#:~:text=Government officials are finalising the,Jack set to feature prominently.&text=The new logo is scheduled,nationalised under the Labour government

I remain skeptical, but have seen this repeated in a few places now. Hopefully it's not overly nationalist whenever it's unveiled.

Nothing beoynd any removal of any mentions of First or MTR. Business as usual - things will change will change more gradually rather than overnight.

Logically the government will want some kind of big 'bang' moment for political reasons, and this would be an obvious time for it - even if things don't improve for passengers

 

[Joe Paxton]

The formation of GBR is going to be a gradual, incremental process as the fragmented parts of the railway are moulded back together again.

 

[The Ham]

Hopefully it's not overly nationalist whenever it's unveiled.

Where does the following sit on the nationalist scale:

The old BR logo, but with the top bar and right facing arrow (and associated surround) being the left 40(ish) percent of the union flag.

Something like (but designed in more than 2 minutes, so the lines would line up better and the colours extend to the end of that line) this:

 

[jupiter]

Two minutes eh? You’re wasted on this forum, that’s a two million pound logo from an advertising company right there, and you’ve given it to them for free. Great work!

 

[gobbybobby]

Currently got a start date with swr of July been told the advertised benefits (free or discounted travel on first group trains among other benefits etc) for all starters after the change may be different and are 'TBA' if you already work there or start before the change you keep the current contract/ benefits from my understanding.

 

[Helvellyn]

Currently got a start date with swr of July been told the advertised benefits (free or discounted travel on first group trains among other benefits etc) for all starters after the change may be different and are 'TBA' if you already work there or start before the change you keep the current contract/ benefits from my understanding.

Reciprocal benefits will come with some form of documentation to entitlement issued by Rail Staff Travel, usually issued annually. So existing passes for reciprocal travel on First Group TOCs will have a certain expiry date. They could or could not be renewed depending whether SWR does any deals. I guess they are not issuing new passes to new starters until the situation is clarified. Think it's been mentioned in other threads that the DFTO TOCs don't have a cover-all reciprocal agreement and what exists is piecemeal. So Southeastern might have legacy agreements with GTR from when part of GoVia but nothing with its three (soon to be four) sister DFTO TOCs.

 

[Class 466]

Currently got a start date with swr of July been told the advertised benefits (free or discounted travel on first group trains among other benefits etc) for all starters after the change may be different and are 'TBA' if you already work there or start before the change you keep the current contract/ benefits from my understanding.

Employees will most likely lose reciprocal First Group travel as per TPE when they transferred to DFTO.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Don't think there will be any radical change as Southeastern & TPE remained mostly the same once nationalised as Northern Rail was apart from the slight change of the logo. Only LNER was renamed as it was VTEC previously, LNER to this day have retained the red VTEC colour scheme.

F-MTR SWR quietly began day 1 in 2017 still in SWT colours also most stock never were debranded only receiving SWR vinyls covering over the SWT logos almost a year later in 2018.

I expect the same with the new DFTO SWR beginning its first day unchanged still in F-MTR SWR colours.

The DFTO controlled TOCs probably will only get some sort of the BR forked logo applied at the ends of all stock without changing the liveries until GBR officially begins whenever this will be (likely when the final English TOC is nationalised) then the real changes should become apparent from then.

 

[Farnborough]

The DFTO controlled TOCs probably will only get some sort of the BR forked logo applied at the ends of all stock without changing the liveries until GBR officially begins whenever this will be (likely when the final English TOC is nationalised) then the real changes should become apparent from then.

I don't get why the already-DFTO-controlled TOCs are not already showing GBR branding... why do we need to wait for evidence?

 

[moley]

I don't get why the already-DFTO-controlled TOCs are not already showing GBR branding... why do we need to wait for evidence?

Aren’t the OLR companies technically franchise operators (albeit now under management contracts), whereas the company running SWR will intrinsically be part of GBR?

 

[vuzzeho]

I genuinely believe the renationalisation of SWR will be something very different to the renationalisation of VTEC and all the other DFTO operators. The government has made a big fuss over this one, making sure to mention that it's related to the 2024 act, and that it's being renationalised and will form part of what will be GBR. I don't expect this to be done quietly, or subtly. This was quite a major bit of policy for the government, and they'll want to be seen changing things quickly, not waiting until next year at the earliest before they start doing anything that people will notice. I half-expect them to rename DFTO to Shadow GBR Operator or something like that.

 

[Zomboid]

I don't get why the already-DFTO-controlled TOCs are not already showing GBR branding... why do we need to wait for evidence?

As of right now, there is no GBR branding - at least nothing public. This was a big thing in the governments manifesto, so they're going to want to launch it (which will mostly mean the brand) with a big fanfare when GBR becomes an actual thing.

 

[JonathanH]

This was a big thing in the governments manifesto, so they're going to want to launch it (which will mostly mean the brand) with a big fanfare when GBR becomes an actual thing.

It is however important that passengers see something better almost immediately at the point of rebrand so that it can be distinguished from what has gone before. The government is getting a lot of blame for things not getting better. It is almost better to hide behind the existing brands while there are still challenges to resolve.

 

[The Ham]

It is however important that passengers see something better almost immediately at the point of rebrand so that it can be distinguished from what has gone before. The government is getting a lot of blame for things not getting better. It is almost better to hide behind the existing brands while there are still challenges to resolve.

SWR is still running fewer services than pre COVID, whilst it is also caring fewer passengers, there is the possibility of reinstating services.

Although the big thing which could be done (but would cost a lot) is to approve the building of Crossrail 2 - although that would take a long time to deliver.

 

[JonathanH]

SWR is still running fewer services than pre COVID, whilst it is also caring fewer passengers, there is the possibility of reinstating services.

I don't think that is an immediately achievable change. A clean and efficient railway that can be relied upon with 100% punctuality might be more tenable.

Although the big thing which could be done (but would cost a lot) is to approve the building of Crossrail 2 - although that would take a long time to deliver.

Practically irrelevant to current users of the railway who want to see immediate improvements, not projects in the distant future.

 

[The Ham]

I don't think that is an immediately achievable change. A clean and efficient railway that can be relied upon with 100% punctuality might be more tenable.

You're never going to achieve 100% reliability, however, there's a question as to if it's better to have a more reliable railway but with lower frequencies or higher frequencies so that is a train is cancelled the wait until the next one is shorter.

Practically irrelevant to current users if the railway who want to see immediate improvements, not projects in the distant future.

I implied as much by stating that it would take a long time to deliver.

 

[Snow1964]

I don't think that is an immediately achievable change. A clean and efficient railway that can be relied upon with 100% punctuality might be more tenable.

All the rail companies have to publish performance stats nowadays.

For SWR latest (period 13 which was 2-31 March was :
67.81% on time (so only about 2 in 3 trains)
2.63% cancelled
43,974 booked trains in reporting period

Our Performance | South Western Railway

We know that you want a safe, reliable, punctual service. We’re committed to providing this. Our performance against targets are set in our Passenger’s Charter.

www.southwesternrailway.com

So if my maths is correct, averaging 39 cancellations per day, and not running 482 trains daily on time. Pretty low baseline if looking for improvements.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

If DfT are making a "fuss" with SWR's nationalisation then it is probably the stock receiving the BR forked logo vinyls applied on the existing SWR livery - cue photo opp with Transp Sec & SWR bosses in front of a Desiro unit maybe?

Then this will be rolled out to TPE, Northern Rail, LNER and Southeastern (also C2C and GA when nationalised)?

I'm reminded of the time when Nicola Sturgeon turned up, in a face mask, to mark ScotRail's nationalisation by the Scottish gov, the train had a silver plague vinyl stating the "transistion to public ownership" on the unchanged ScotRail livery.

 

[The Ham]

If DfT are making a "fuss" with SWR's nationalisation then it is probably the stock receiving the BR forked logo vinyls applied on the existing SWR livery - cue photo opp with Transp Sec & SWR bosses in front of a Desiro unit maybe?

Then this will be rolled out to TPE, Northern Rail, LNER and Southeastern (also C2C and GA when nationalised)?

I'm reminded of the time when Nicola Sturgeon turned up, in a face mask, to mark ScotRail's nationalisation by the Scottish gov, the train had a silver plague vinyl stating the "transistion to public ownership" on the unchanged ScotRail livery.

In theory there could be three trains, as an example:
- 701 in a red GBR livery
- 458 in a blue GBR livery
- 444 in a white GBR livery

Building on the red, white and blue of the national flag to create a pattern which could be used across a range of trains, but with a local brand. Possibly with a fourth train showing the branding for Network Rail maintenance trains.

Maybe with a GB SWR (or even a GB L&SWR) brand to replace the SWR brand which would allow other TOC branding to follow a similar pattern (GB LNER, GB TPR, GB XC, GB GWR, etc.) as well as a GB NR (Great British Network Railways) brand to replace the NR brand.

I'd also expect a GBR uniform (station staff), a GB SWR uniform (train crew with a variation for train maintenance staff) and GBR NR uniform (track maintenance crew) to be on display.

I could of course be a million miles off, but if you're have a GBR launch event there's an element of going big with what you've got to show off to the press and lots of different images/sorry videos which can be pushed across social media (4 different trains, several "TOC" brands, the GB NR brand, several other images from the launch day and the like).

As we are very visual creatures (and there's not a whole lot of "news" to fill column inches) the "interest" of the story is the images which can be distributed, rather than the geeky elements of the way the nationalisation will actually happen.

 

[jon0844]

I really can't see a benefit in launching all-new liveries when everyone is wanting to see service improvements, not money put into new vinyls/paint and station signage.

Create a specific GBR logo and text format that can be applied to the front and rear of existing stock (or perhaps the middle of each coach), and consider new branding as and when trains get overhauls.

New uniforms are easier as clothing needs to be replaced periodically anyway.

If the Government decides to spend millions on rebranding I can't see it going down well. People want cuts in fares, new ticketing options and so on - which are of course things that can't be done overnight, so I wouldn't see the point in rushing things.

If GBR goes in all-guns-blazing on the marketing front with no real changes, everyone will just say 'what was the point of that? Nothing has changed'. I think a slow, gradual introduction of the brand is more sensible.