SWR after May

[cle]

Fast to Reading, and stations to X.... or MKC, or Ashford.... all as mentioned, are essential service types here. I don't think they are inter city, but definitely start that way at the city end (and the Javelin stock has that feel).

Yes Weymouth is far, but it's a local service after Southampton...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fast to Reading, and stations to X.... or MKC, or Ashford.... all as mentioned, are essential service types here. I don't think they are inter city, but definitely start that way at the city end (and the Javelin stock has that feel).

Yes Weymouth is far, but it's a local service after Southampton...

You could create a specific brand for these often London-centric "fast to X then all stations to Y" type services - "Capital Express"?

 

[Zomboid]

Deleted

 

[eldomtom2]

You could create a specific brand for these often London-centric "fast to X then all stations to Y" type services - "Capital Express"?

In Japan they'd be "Rapid"s.

 

[Ellwill]

You could create a specific brand for these often London-centric "fast to X then all stations to Y" type services - "Capital Express"?

Sounds a little too close to First Crapital Connect for my taste. If memory serves right Network Express was used to advertise certain long distance trains out of Waterloo (eg Weymouth, Exeter) in the NSE days so perhaps that could be used?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've just had the email mentioned above and it clearly states the brand won't be changing (for now, anyway) - so if there is a GBR liveried unit that'll just be a promo:

Although the legal operator is changing, your experience won’t. You’ll continue to see the same branding, same services, and the same teams running your trains.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I've just had the email mentioned above and it clearly states the brand won't be changing (for now, anyway) - so if there is a GBR liveried unit that'll just be a promo:

Hmm, it doesn't "clearly state the brand won't be changing" if we're being picky... it says "you'll continue the see same branding", which is true, as its likely they won't plaster everything with the new names overnight, nor change the livery so the "same branding" will still be there to some extent one way or another... So it's neither a definite "they will" nor "they won't"... And I'am being picky at that

 

[ScottGallagher]

I've just had the email mentioned above and it clearly states the brand won't be changing (for now, anyway) - so if there is a GBR liveried unit that'll just be a promo:

It could mean its still called South Western Railway with a different font or something.
Interesting no mention of management changes up to now as OLR did at Northern and TPE before they took over but granted they didn't change management at LNER or SE.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

So, this latest Guardian article on the subject seems internally contradictory, at least at face value.

It reads:

At the rarely experienced hour of 6.14am on Sunday, the first train to carry the Great British Railways branding will make its way out of London Waterloo to Shepperton: traversing the Surrey commuter belt emblazoned with a red, white and blue GBR logo, and proudly renationalised to boot.

The next train with the planned state body’s branding may be some years behind it. But the Labour government hopes to grab the moment to demonstrate to an increasingly impatient electorate that the wheels of change – in rail at least – are finally turning.

The first renationalisation, landing on the late May bank holiday weekend, is one of Britain’s biggest commuter services – although the trains, including the one currently getting the GBR paint job in a Bournemouth depot, will still run as South Western Railway for some time. As the first emblem of a potential new era pulls into the station, what does the shake-up mean for the rail industry – and will passengers notice the difference?

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...at-britain-railways-south-western-lower-fares (19.05.2025)

So from this I draw the following conclusion. Given that one 701 unit is currently stationed at Bournemouth depot and there is talk of a train (singular) with GBR branding, set to run from Waterloo to Shepperton, I think we can be fairly certain that it will be that unit and that unit only which will receive the GBR branding for now.

However, I cannot quite work out whether GBR branding is understood to mean a simple vinyl job (as would be likely and most economical) or a proper repaint.

The fact that there is talk of a single unit getting special branding, with the next one being years off, makes me think it is a proper repaint / overhaul. However, the author also says all trains, including the one with "special branding" will continue to run as South Western Railway for some time, whatever that means. So, that sounds more like a vinyl job i.e. a small Great British Railways banner or logo applied in addition to the current South Western Railway branding. Bit like the metropolitan transport authority logos on the new bus liveries for Manchester, Liverpool and West Yorkshire.

But if that is the case, why only bother with one unit for marketing purposes. Why not several? Is that for logistical reasons, because no other unit can currently be taken out of service? Surely more units could follow sooner than in several years time, provided it were a quick vinyl job. Or is it, given that the bill for GBR has not even been introduced in parliament yet, the branding is only provisional and set to change once GBR gets set up?

Perhaps it is a proper repaint, a kind of prototype livery, which prominently features GBR branding but also South Western Railway in small print. Kind of flipping the roles. That way the branding would not change for any of the other units, nor would the operator name. That is the only way I can make any sense of this article and of the e-mail stating branding would not change.

 

[Transilien]

So, this latest Guardian article on the subject seems internally contradictory, at least at face value.

It reads:


Source: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...at-britain-railways-south-western-lower-fares (19.05.2025)

So from this I draw the following conclusion. Given that one 701 unit is currently stationed at Bournemouth depot and there is talk of a train (singular) with GBR branding, set to run from Waterloo to Shepperton, I think we can be fairly certain that it will be that unit and that unit only which will receive the GBR branding for now.

However, I cannot quite work out whether GBR branding is understood to mean a simple vinyl job (as would be likely and most economical) or a proper repaint.

The fact that there is talk of a single unit getting special branding, with the next one being years off, makes me think it is a proper repaint / overhaul. However, the author also says all trains, including the one with "special branding" will continue to run as South Western Railway for some time, whatever that means. So, that sounds more like a vinyl job i.e. a small Great British Railways banner or logo applied in addition to the current South Western Railway branding. Bit like the metropolitan transport authority logos on the new bus liveries for Manchester, Liverpool and West Yorkshire.

But if that is the case, why only bother with one unit for marketing purposes. Why not several? Is that for logistical reasons, because no other unit can currently be taken out of service? Surely more units could follow sooner than in several years time, provided it were a quick vinyl job. Or is it, given that the bill for GBR has not even been introduced in parliament yet, the branding is only provisional and set to change once GBR gets set up?

Perhaps it is a proper repaint, a kind of prototype livery, which prominently features GBR branding but also South Western Railway in small print. Kind of flipping the roles. That way the branding would not change for any of the other units, nor would the operator name. That is the only way I can make any sense of this article and of the e-mail stating branding would not change.

It’s really strange how they are doing this. Why not apply the livery to a fleet that is being repainted anyway and that is already operating in a nationalised franchise like the class 376?

 

[eldomtom2]

My interpretation of the Guardian article, bearing in mind it's three lines in an article primarily not focused on branding is this:

• One train is getting a full GBR livery.
• Other SWR trains will retain their existing livery but see SWR branding replaced with GBR branding; I'm presuming something like the double arrow next to "South Western Railway".
• All SWR services will continue to be branded as "South Western Railway" services at stations, in onboard announcements, in journey planners, on social media, etc. There will be no merger with OLR TOCs at this point and it will remain separate from them.

I wouldn't place much stock in the bit about the 6.14 to Shepperton - that's just the first SWR out of Waterloo on a Sunday (if you ignore the late-night departures).

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Strange indeed. Perhaps it's even a full-blown one-off publicity livery - you know, kind of stating "Great British Railways - coming soon to somewhere near you" or something like that

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect it won't necessarily be the final livery - just a bit of publicity. No doubt feedback will be assessed before making a final decision - remember how there were about three versions of the SercoNed Northern livery before they finally picked one.

 

[vuzzeho]

I read that as 'the trains will get a new livery but still be operating as SWR for now' - so maybe 'South Western (Railway) by Great British Railways' until it's ready to be GBR proper. I wonder if this will be seen with the OLR operators too.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

My interpretation is it’s a small logo on the side of a single train and that’s it. The article only mentions the logo being red white and blue. It also says other trains will not be receiving this small logo for a long time.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

My interpretation is it’s a small logo on the side of a single train and that’s it. The article only mentions the logo being red white and blue. It also says other trains will not be receiving this small logo for a long time.

Well a small logo on the side of the train would be very easy to apply so they probably wouldn’t say this bit if it was just a logo.

 

[setdown]

It makes sense they're not changing the liveries for all units now- the condition of the 444/450/701 livery is excellent, and the money is probably best spent elsewhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It makes sense they're not changing the liveries for all units now- the condition of the 444/450/701 livery is excellent, and the money is probably best spent elsewhere.

TBH just replacing the stupid SWR "line diagram" logo with a red double arrow would look decent, the livery is generic enough to take it.

Another thing you could do is rewrite the "South Western Railway" text in Rail Alphabet 2 and put a superscripted double arrow at the end of it, in the manner of Regional Railways.

 

[setdown]

TBH just replacing the stupid SWR "line diagram" logo with a red double arrow would look decent, the livery is generic enough to take it.

Another thing you could do is rewrite the "South Western Railway" text in Rail Alphabet 2 and put a superscripted double arrow at the end of it, in the manner of Regional Railways.

I suspect now that the new "I'm a Guard" hi-vis with SWR branding have started appearing, there'll be absolute minimal changes to branding for now.

But then at Waterloo the other day there was a guard wearing a very smart retro-style railway hat, with golden "S-W-R" letters on it, so who knows

 

[OneTrackMinded]

But then at Waterloo the other day there was a guard wearing a very smart retro-style railway hat, with golden "S-W-R" letters on it

So unbelievably naff. The fact management is proud of a company which has done absolutely nothing positive in they’re whole tenure says a lot. Almost as bad as the “#TeamSWR” self congratulatory LinkedIn slop.

 

[Joe Paxton]

What would be great would be if the Great got dropped... as I don't think anyone's going to get that muddled up about whether or not (G)BR runs the railway in Brittany.

Won't happen of course as a certain Nigel would scream blue, red and white murder that the government were talking down the country... *

(* that being his job...)

 

[setdown]

I really hope the change of ownership allows for S-tickets on the SWR routes. Yes, I know they're not great but it would be grand just to have my phone on me, instead of carrying (and worrying) about a plastic smart card. I don't ever carry my wallet on me, so it's a bit of an inconvenience.

And for true pie-in-the-sky thinking, make the Flexi ticket more competitively priced with the weekly seasons would be nice. Example: £71.80 for a day on a Flexi, versus £37.40 for a day on a weekly season.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

What would be great would be if the Great got dropped... as I don't think anyone's going to get that muddled up about whether or not (G)BR runs the railway in Brittany.

Won't happen of course as a certain Nigel would scream blue, red and white murder that the government were talking down the country... *

(* that being his job...)

The thing is, though perhaps objectively meaningless or misleading, adding (or rather retaining) Great in GBR was actually quite a clever political move by Labour. It works to appease the more rabid pseudo-patriotic fringes of the right-wing. Might not seem like there's a big overlap there, but I think the success of Michael Portillo's TV programme and others shows that, whether overtly expressed or not, there is among the British public still a certain amount of love left for the railways as an institution, it being one of the things that Britain supposedly used to do well "back when it was great". I suppose many Brits like the idea of the railway more than the reality of it.

However, conversely, if the system continues to be underperform like now, there may be more of an incentive for future governments to improve it, given that it would otherwise tarnish the name of "Great Britain".

The impact of all of this may well be marginal, but even if it allows for 0.05% more investment in the railway at basically no further cost, I'll take it.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Surprised the GBR logo still hasn't been registered as a trademark.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surprised the GBR logo still hasn't been registered as a trademark.

The double arrow has been. No other GBR logo has been released; the one pictured upthread is a mock-up by someone else.

 

[Zomboid]

I think part of the point of the G in GBR is to differentiate it from BR.

 

[Mikey C]

I think part of the point of the G in GBR is to differentiate it from BR.

You can understand why the Tories would want to differentiate GBR from BR, but I'm not sure if Labour need to do so?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

As expected, Stuart Meek has now moved back to the Chief Operating Officer position pending the end of the franchise.

Experience:
Managing Director (Interim) March 2024-2025 - 1 year 3 months
Chief Operating Officer August 2022 - Present - 2 yrs 10 months

Wonder who the new MD will be, could be someone from the GBR board since usually railway MDs come from the parent organisation.
I like to imagine Chris Green showing up to the launch day in the newly painted unit to announce he's coming out of retirement... but of course that is just a fairytale

 

[Zomboid]

You can understand why the Tories would want to differentiate GBR from BR, but I'm not sure if Labour need to do so?

If it's about politics, where's the political gain in removing the 'great'? It'd be a gift to the naysayers.

 

[OneOfThe48]

As expected, Stuart Meek has now moved back to the Chief Operating Officer position pending the end of the franchise.

Wonder who the new MD will be, could be someone from the GBR board since usually railway MDs come from the parent organisation.
I like to imagine Chris Green showing up to the launch day in the newly painted unit to announce he's coming out of retirement... but of course that is just a fairytale

Is the SWR - Network Rail Wessex Route alliance being set up at the same time?

I’d heard that a NR chap (name eludes me) might be the MD of both