SWR Class 458 to be retained

[OneTrackMinded]

Are you saying trains are going into service with part of their braking system not functioning ?

Probably something to do with the motors. They're very dodgy, catch on fire a lot. Happened at Clapham Junction when I was there and they had to call the fire brigade as a safety precaution, even though there was just smoke.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Are you saying trains are going into service with part of their braking system not functioning ?

No problem, they've always got the friction brake…

I know they've got a Regen Brake Permitted switch.

 

[Bigfoot]

Are you saying trains are going into service with part of their braking system not functioning ?

Regen brake isolation just means the friction brake compensates proportionately.

It's really not a big thing, much like the airline industry there are things which are allowed to not work and still be safe for passenger service.

It's perfectly possible to run with brakes isolated completely as long as the rules are followed.

A molehill that isn't a mountain in the slightest.

 

[Goldfish62]

Regen brake isolation just means the friction brake compensates proportionately.

It's really not a big thing, much like the airline industry there are things which are allowed to not work and still be safe for passenger service.

It's perfectly possible to run with brakes isolated completely as long as the rules are followed.

A molehill that isn't a mountain in the slightest.

Indeed, most Networkers had their rheostatic braking isolated after a few years service due to overheating issues.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

If the 458/5s were to be put into storage. I think there are 8 left. I wonder if there is another rail operator who would use the 458/5s for temporary use?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If the 458/5s were to be put into storage. I think there are 8 left. I wonder if there is another rail operator who would use the 458/5s for temporary use?

There are only five still on lease with SWR.

 

[southern442]

There are only five still on lease with SWR.

What's happening with the other three? SWR need all the help they can get!!!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

What's happening with the other three? SWR need all the help they can get!!!!

Off lease and out of miles.

 

[Siemens Staines]

What's happening with the other three? SWR need all the help they can get!!!!

All three are at Long Marston. There is only one diagram for two of the five remaining units, with the other three being spare every day, presumably to eek out their remaining mileage. I notice that 458536 has now been inactive since the beginning of the month.

 

[43096]

All three are at Long Marston.

I know one went (534) but did the other two actually move?

There is only one diagram for two of the five remaining units, with the other three being spare every day, presumably to eke out their remaining mileage. I notice that 458536 has now been inactive since the beginning of the month.

If ever evidence was needed of the fact that SWR and DfT couldn’t care less about passengers it is the failure to authorise overhauls on the remaining 458/5s that shows it. Plenty of 455s have gone for “unplanned” overhauls, but not the 458s. Why?

 

[cactustwirly]

I know one went (534) but did the other two actually move?

If ever evidence was needed of the fact that SWR and DfT couldn’t care less about passengers it is the failure to authorise overhauls on the remaining 458/5s that shows it. Plenty of 455s have gone for “unplanned” overhauls, but not the 458s. Why?

You'd have thought the 458s would be cheaper to overhaul as they'd have less corrosion

 

[Siemens Staines]

I know one went (534) but did the other two actually move?

The dates I have down for the three are;
13.09.24 458534 5Q94 0626 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 37884 + 37510
10.12.24 458531 5Q99 0627 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 57310
18.02.25 458532 7Q99 0623 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 37901 + 37510

but happy to be corrected if I have missed something?

 

[Wolfie]

You'd have thought the 458s would be cheaper to overhaul as they'd have less corrosion

Perhaps more drivers trained on 455s?

 

[swr444]

Perhaps more drivers trained on 455s?

i think it's more to do with the 458/5s being a microfleet now and will be displaced by the 701s first

 

[Invincible]

i think it's more to do with the 458/5s being a microfleet now and will be displaced by the 701s first

SWR seem more confident in sorting out the 701 problems and staff training to fully roll them out in 2 years time to retire the 455s and 458s.
I travelled on a 458/5 the other day, and from a passenger viewpoint they are better than a 455 with toilets and air con. Guess the 458/5 could be serviced alongside the 458/4s. They don't need a repaint or new interior just for 2 years, as long as they get serviced and checked for corrosion, but guess the re-leasing arrangements require a full overhaul? OK if they will get say 10 years more life, but not worth it for saying 2 years?.

 

[Stephen42]

SWR seem more confident in sorting out the 701 problems and staff training to fully roll them out in 2 years time to retire the 455s and 458s.
I travelled on a 458/5 the other day, and from a passenger viewpoint they are better than a 455 with toilets and air con. Guess the 458/5 could be serviced alongside the 458/4s. They don't need a repaint or new interior just for 2 years, as long as they get serviced and checked for corrosion, but guess the re-leasing arrangements require a full overhaul? OK if they will get say 10 years more life, but not worth it for saying 2 years?.

Most fleet are subject to mileage based overhauls and if a train reaches that mileage the overhaul can't be pushed back. Each type of overhaul will be different but will be a combination of inspection and replacing some parts alongside other activities. Interiors usually wouldn't be mileage based. With 701 training due to resume, the 458/5s remaining service life is probably months not years now. Without the 701 training delay they might have all gone already.

The 455s on the flip side are a much larger fleet and will take until at least the end of this year to replace if not longer. The units recently overhauled can be used more intensively which could delay when other 455s need overhauls. SWR would probably be hoping to be able to withdraw 455s as they become due for overhauls in the near future.

 

[WarrenTManager]

You'd have thought the 458s would be cheaper to overhaul as they'd have less corrosion

Corrosion isn’t in the overhaul scope. There are more bogies, two more motors, intermediate couplers, the end couplers are more expensive on a 458/5. With the /4 now starting C4 lead times for 75mph gearboxes is lengthy.

8536 is now off lease (and off topic 5902)

 

[43096]

The dates I have down for the three are;
13.09.24 458534 5Q94 0626 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 37884 + 37510
10.12.24 458531 5Q99 0627 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 57310
18.02.25 458532 7Q99 0623 Wimbledon Park - Long Marston by 37901 + 37510

but happy to be corrected if I have missed something?

Ta. I must have missed those last two!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

8536 is now off lease (and off topic 5902)

It’s got to be extremely inefficient to maintain a microfleet of four units for a single paired diagram a day. We surely can’t be far off the remaining four going too now?

 

[driverd]

It’s got to be extremely inefficient to maintain a microfleet of four units for a single paired diagram a day. We surely can’t be far off the remaining four going too now?

Interesting way of working it, though makes sense if they're winding the fleet down.

It doesn't have to be inefficient, though. For instance, northern have maintained a micro-fleet of 7x 155s for year without any great drama. The same could be said for TPEs historic 9x 170s, or GCs 2x 221/(historic) 3x HSTs. A micro-fleet doesn't have to be inefficient, infact, a microfleet on a favourable lease could be more cost effective than an extension of an existing fleet. Daily efficiency really comes down to how interchangable the overall fleet is.

 

[cactustwirly]

Corrosion isn’t in the overhaul scope. There are more bogies, two more motors, intermediate couplers, the end couplers are more expensive on a 458/5. With the /4 now starting C4 lead times for 75mph gearboxes is lengthy.

8536 is now off lease (and off topic 5902)

I was thinking the 455s are 40 year old steel, surely it would be an issue if corrosion was discovered during overhaul?
They wouldn't be able to release a unit with a corroded body

 

[WarrenTManager]

I was thinking the 455s are 40 year old steel, surely it would be an issue if corrosion was discovered during overhaul?
They wouldn't be able to release a unit with a corroded body

The corrosion is found usually on exam way before an overhaul. The overhaul is pretty much new bogies, new brake control units, new couplers, a few odds and sods and back out.

 

[Siemens Staines]

8536 is now off lease

Thank you for the update. I think that this is 458536 final passenger service, vice 701 in the days when this service still ran.

Thursday 3rd April 2025
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo

Realtime Trains | 2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo | 03/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 2H96 0800 departure from Shepperton to London Waterloo on 03/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Wolfie]

The corrosion is found usually on exam way before an overhaul. The overhaul is pretty much new bogies, new brake control units, new couplers, a few odds and sods and back out.

When you say "new" l assume that in the main in reality a swap-out for refurbished components?

 

[NSEWonderer]

Some potential news to be confirmed, by around early may the 458/4s will be able to do Readings and Shepperton via Twickenham.

 

[swr444]

Some potential news to be confirmed, by around early may the 458/4s will be able to do Readings and Kingston / Shepperton.

That’s good, means they can be used on diverted 2C/U for engineering work via Kingston

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I think that at the moment these are the most comfortable trains on SWT services through Feltham

 

[TEW]

Some potential news to be confirmed, by around early may the 458/4s will be able to do Readings and Kingston / Shepperton.

Shepperton is via Twickenham but not via Kingston/ Wimbledon. There is a gauging issue at Clapham Junction on the down main slow which means they will not be cleared on routes through Wimbledon.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Shepperton is via Twickenham but not via Kingston/ Wimbledon. There is a gauging issue at Clapham Junction on the down main slow which means they will not be cleared on routes through Wimbledon.

Ah makes sense

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Some potential news to be confirmed, by around early may the 458/4s will be able to do Readings and Kingston / Shepperton.

Assuming none will be booked though?