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SWR December 2022 Timetable Consultation

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miklcct

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For those living on the line between Clapham Junction and Woking they are considerably more convenient then heading to Paddington and getting the train to Bristol from there.
Won't SWR continue to run the Salisbury to London Waterloo trains where you can transfer at Salisbury for other trains to Bristol?

If you live on the line between Clapham Junction and Woking you shouldn't consider using London Paddington at all. I believe you can still take SWR main line trains to Salisbury or Reading and transfer to GWR services there.
 
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Morgsie

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I am confused regarding the London Waterloo to Weymouth SWML proposals so can someone clarify please as in what is being proposed? Are they proposing ommitting Brockenhurst or Brock in the morning if so what will happen to those students who travel by train from places like Wareham, Hamworthy, Poole, Parkstone and Branksome to Brock College? Page 32 of the document.

I would not be surpriised if former BBC South Today reporter now MP, Richard Drax, responds given he wants London to Weymouth journeys sped up and has made comments on this in the past.
 

miklcct

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I am confused regarding the London Waterloo to Weymouth SWML proposals so can someone clarify please as in what is being proposed? Are they proposing ommitting Brockenhurst or Brock in the morning if so what will happen to those students who travel by train from places like Wareham, Hamworthy, Poole, Parkstone and Branksome to Brock College? Page 32 of the document.

I would not be surpriised if former BBC South Today reporter now MP, Richard Drax, responds given he wants London to Weymouth journeys sped up and has made comments on this in the past.
The AM Peak Weymouth to London train will run non-stop from Bournemouth to Southampton to join a stopper departing from Bournemouth to Southampton, at 2tph.

Which means passengers need to transfer at Bournemouth for the following stopper for Brockenhurst.
 

PTR 444

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The AM Peak Weymouth to London train will run non-stop from Bournemouth to Southampton to join a stopper departing from Bournemouth to Southampton, at 2tph.

Which means passengers need to transfer at Bournemouth for the following stopper for Brockenhurst.
According to the document, one of the evening peak tph detached at Southampton is extended to Poole, so Brockenhurst maintains its link to Branksome and Parkstone then.

No mention on whether the morning Weymouth - Brock stopper is being retained though. Would be a huge inconvenience if it gets scrapped as I know quite a few Brockenhurst college students who live west of Poole.
 

Morgsie

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The AM Peak Weymouth to London train will run non-stop from Bournemouth to Southampton to join a stopper departing from Bournemouth to Southampton, at 2tph.

Which means passengers need to transfer at Bournemouth for the following stopper for Brockenhurst.

According to the document, one of the evening peaks detached at Southampton is extended to Poole, so Brockenhurst maintains its link to Branksome and Parkstone then.

No mention on whether the morning Weymouth - Brock stopper is being retained though. Would be a huge inconvenience if it goes as I know quite a few Brockenhurst college students who live west of Poole.
Reason why I asked this as students who attend Brock College use the train from Dorset though do not know the numbers. I used to catch the the all stops slam door trains that started from Wareham at Poole back around 2003 or 2004.
 

miklcct

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According to the document, one of the evening peak tph detached at Southampton is extended to Poole, so Brockenhurst maintains its link to Branksome and Parkstone then.

No mention on whether the morning Weymouth - Brock stopper is being retained though. Would be a huge inconvenience if it gets scrapped as I know quite a few Brockenhurst college students who live west of Poole.
The level of inconvenience will depend on how SWR schedule the trains between Bournemouth and Southampton.

If the timetable is made such that the stopper from Bournemouth will depart just after the express, and arrive at Southampton when the next express catches up and joins it, it will just be a minor inconvenience as only a cross-platform interchange from platform 2 to 1 is needed at Bournemouth.
 

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Reason why I asked this as students who attend Brock College use the train from Dorset though do not know the numbers. I used to catch the the all stops slam door trains that started from Wareham at Poole back around 2003 or 2004.
I used to be a Brock college student myself and have to say the train was very convenient from Hamworthy. While a savvy rail traveller like myself could cope with a short same-platform change, I’m not sure the same can be said for dozens of other typical students, particularly those who have to lug sports gear or musical instruments with them!
 

miklcct

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While a savvy rail traveller like myself could cope with a short same-platform change, I’m not sure the same can be said for dozens of other typical students, particularly those who have to lug sports gear or musical instruments with them!
If they can't cope with a simple cross-platform interchange than they shouldn't be travelling by train. We are talking about college students, not primary school students, right?

What do you think it will happen if they need to commute on other railways which involves walking between parts of stations, or even worse, out of station interchange?

I have seen worse examples where a through service is permanently split into connecting services where cross-platform interchange is only available half of the time (because trains depart from alternate platforms at a terminus), resulting in major inconvenience because passenger need to check the display and run to the other platform if needed to catch a departing train! Such inconvenience drove some passengers to take a bus instead of trains!
 
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PTR 444

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If they can't cope with a simple cross-platform interchange than they shouldn't be travelling by train. We are talking about college students, not primary school students, right?

What do you think it will happen if they need to commute on other railways which involves walking between parts of stations, or even worse, out of station interchange?

I have seen worse examples where a through service is permanently split into connecting services where cross-platform interchange is only available half of the time (because trains depart from alternate platforms at a terminus), resulting in major inconvenience because passenger need to check the display and run to the other platform if needed to catch a departing train!
If the connections become too poor or inconvenient, then most will just choose to drive instead. Not like many 17-18 year-olds will want to miss out on the freedom they gain as soon as they pass their test!
 

Bald Rick

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It all looks pretty sensible to me. Providing a service that, overall, meets the expected demand (and more), will perform well, and costs the taxpayer less.

Surely more proposals like this will follow in the next couple of years.
 

miklcct

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If the connections become too poor or inconvenient, then most will just choose to drive instead.
Are all 17-18 year-olds in the region so rich that they can afford a car, monthly parking near home and ridiculous insurance premiums once they pass their test?!
 

swt_passenger

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The AM Peak Weymouth to London train will run non-stop from Bournemouth to Southampton to join a stopper departing from Bournemouth to Southampton, at 2tph.

Which means passengers need to transfer at Bournemouth for the following stopper for Brockenhurst.
The joining of fast and slow portions at Southampton in the am peak has been the normal operation for many years, pre COVID. It would be happening already if there weren’t so many temporary service reductions.
 

infobleep

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I don't know if you've seen this thread:
but the study that refers to (linked from the first post) includes discussion of the issues involved in stopping fast trains at Clapham Junction (section 6.2.9)
No I haven't yet as I was too busy with work to read it in more detail. I do plan to.
 

HamworthyGoods

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The joining of fast and slow portions at Southampton in the am peak has been the normal operation for many years, pre COVID. It would be happening already if there weren’t so many temporary service reductions.

Indeed the joining of portions at Southampton in the AM peak goes back to the first Wessex Electric timetable.
 

Class 170101

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Given the consultation is in the public domain just respond as other to the first Question. Whether they choose to take notice of what anyone says who knows.
 

PTR 444

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Are all 17-18 year-olds in the region so rich that they can afford a car, monthly parking near home and ridiculous insurance premiums once they pass their test?!
Well I guess most use their parents’ vehicle. During my first two years of college, I caught the bus from Wimborne and by the end of that time, all the fellow students I’d become friends with had ditched the bus in favour of the car. I don’t blame them either as it went all round the houses through Ferndown and St Leonard’s, whereas a car can just whizz up the A31 bypassing all the villages en route.

As someone who prefers not to go through the hassle of driving, but still found the bus very inconvenient, I switched to the train for my last two years. Made friends again but unlike before they did not switch to the car when they passed their test. Why could that be? Well from Hamworthy, a fast train beats the car to Brockenhurst by at least 10 minutes due to the haphazard quality of roads in the BCP area, only made 100 times worse by morning congestion. I don’t think I would ever consider driving for a commute of more than half an hour when the destination has a decent rail service at its disposal.
 

infobleep

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I don't know if you've seen this thread:
but the study that refers to (linked from the first post) includes discussion of the issues involved in stopping fast trains at Clapham Junction (section 6.2
I've now started to read it. Very interesting.

However, I note the following in the SWR consultation document that off-peak only one Portsmouth train will stop at Clapham Junction, this being the semi-fast service.

This is on page 31 and is the document referred to in the first post.

Before covid-19, two semi-fast services was stopping at Clapham Junction and 2 fast secures, didn't so why can't they stop there? On a Sunday the fast service currently stops at Clapham Junction.

Or will they vastly improve the connection at Woking, so you sont have to wait over 20 minutes for the next train to Clapham Junction, as one does currently in place of the x04 direct?

Don't tell me they are just going to introduce the emergency timetable, again, where you have a train from Guildford to London at roughly x35 and x49. The x49 being fast and the x35 being semi-fast.

I appreciate for many years trains don't stop at Clapham Junction but these days there are good connections. For example, getting onto the West London Line, never mind going to Croydon and other places in south London.

Why should someone have to go in and out of London, with the additional costs that involves, which is both monetary and time? Note I'm talking off-park here.
 

ivorytoast28

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Don't tell me they are just going to introduce the emergency timetable, again, where you have a train from Guildford to London at roughly x35 and x49. The x49 being fast and the x35 being semi-fast.
That's what I really hope they don't do but given the timetabelling constraints the fast will always be just behind the stopper so I suspect it will be. The stopper has traditionally felt like the busier one, so everyone who has had to wait 30 minutes at Guildford piling on doesn't seem a great idea. Perhaps, it is less busy now people aren't commuting as much and the fasts stop at Godalming, but even there the stopper will be the next train for a 30 minute gap.
 

HamworthyGoods

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If I followed this correctly is the peak at Milford and Witley dropping from 2tph to 1tph?

Looking at the table on page 29 it has Portsmouth Direct peak as 4tph and elsewhere listed as 2tph are fasts so I would hazard a guess the other 2tph are slow but the calling pattern isn’t listed.


Don't tell me they are just going to introduce the emergency timetable, again, where you have a train from Guildford to London at roughly x35 and x49. The x49 being fast and the x35 being semi-fast.

The document says there is 2tph fast and 1tph slow on the Pompey Direct which is what’s running today, the difference seems to be the fast which only goes to Haslemere once an hour is retired to Portsmouth.
 

infobleep

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Looking at the table on page 29 it has Portsmouth Direct peak as 4tph and elsewhere listed as 2tph are fasts so I would hazard a guess the other 2tph are slow but the calling pattern isn’t listed.




The document says there is 2tph fast and 1tph slow on the Pompey Direct which is what’s running today, the difference seems to be the fast which only goes to Haslemere once an hour is retired to Portsmouth.
I see what you are saying. I'm reading the document on my mobile and I misread it.

I was expecting a separate up and down section but with the fast and slow combined under each hot. However, they included up and down under the same section but with fast and slow separated, so reverse of what I expected.

I would still like 2 trains an hour to Clapham Junction but I guess if they have no intention of changing the timetable, bear removing services completely and maybe adding in some additional stood here on existing service, it won't be possible.

Playing devils advocate I thought have thought there would be more demand to Clapham Junction than do or from Farncombe.

No doubt on Sunday's there will continue to be 2 trains an hour, thus giving passengers a better Sunday service than they will get Monday to Friday.
 

slicedbread

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Looking at the table on page 29 it has Portsmouth Direct peak as 4tph and elsewhere listed as 2tph are fasts so I would hazard a guess the other 2tph are slow but the calling pattern isn’t listed.

It doesn't seem to make sense. The table list 4tph in the peak and 3tph off-peak for the Portsmouth Direct
Yet on page 30 it says 2tph are fast in the peak and off peak and 1tph is slow in the peak and off-peak. For waterloo-Guildford-Portsmouth.
 

AverageTD

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Incredibly unimpressed with the shafting of the Hounslow loop services. Twickenham and Richmond are basically down to 4tph to Waterloo as the ex Kingston Loop follows closely behind the Reading. I'd hope the stopper gets pushed back a few minutes as it's still 7 minutes ahead at Barnes junction by the time the Windsor arrives. Also hard to imagine Mortlake coping with 2tph off peak, always seems to be a decent loading and a vastly inferior service ain't tempting many people back to trains.

Elsewhere at least there are small gains, but ultimately things aren't looking good. I notice SWR quoted the peak congestion between Wimbledon and Waterloo as a major, but isn't that one of the main selling points of getting the 701s in with their ABDO, to be able to cope with that level of service?
 

infobleep

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Currently, although there are fewer semi-fast or fast services from Surbiton in the evening peak, there are such services between 19:00 and 19:59, whereas, before covid-19, such services didn't run.

However, looking at the Alton section it says the service levels reflect the May 2019 and for the Basingstoke section, it says the off-peak service levels reflect as the May 2019 timetable. Some shoulder peak trains are withdrawn to reflect reduced commuter demand and to reduce costs.

Does anyone know what these shoulder peak services are?

if they could avoid reverting back to no Alton train stopping at Surbiton between 16:41 and 20:10, that would be good. Given in the off-peak 2 hours an hour stop there.

I'm glad to see Surbiton remains in the evening peak for Woking.

I've not checked the Woking stoppers yet.

One final point.for now. Is there to be a revival of park time travel patronage? Will services revert to being busier at the peak compared to off-peak? I ask because the plan is to still run more trains at the peak.
 

pompeyfan

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I think what it comes down to is everyone wants to look after their own journey and stuff everyone else. Personally I’m disappointed there’s not faster services to London on the direct, also disappointed there’s not fast services between major Hampshire areas, but I can understand that meeting my requirements results in shafting others. In the same way some want additional calls on faster services, subsequently slowing down other people’s journeys.
 

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With the Bristol services going, I've read GWR are going to extend some early morning / late night services to compensate.
 

infobleep

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I think what it comes down to is everyone wants to look after their own journey and stuff everyone else. Personally I’m disappointed there’s not faster services to London on the direct, also disappointed there’s not fast services between major Hampshire areas, but I can understand that meeting my requirements results in shafting others. In the same way some want additional calls on faster services, subsequently slowing down other people’s journeys.
I only want calls on faster services to maintain the number of calls to a station as it was pre-covid-19 rather than to increase the number of calls.

It is not as if Clapham Junction is a minor station and there were 2 calls there prior to 'covid-19. 1 an hour if rubbish, given the alternative for the missing train service currently involves a 21-minute wait at Woking. The journey itself on the direct is only 39 minutes.
 
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infobleep

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If you're referring to contributors on here I think that's a rather cynical view.
Another cynical view that I have but hope they don't put in place is that they are just going to cut services out of the existing timetable as that is quick and easy rather than recast it to make fewer services work for passengers, e.g. that Clapham Junction call I keep mentioning.

Currently, the fast service can't call there and there is an Alton service that is ½ minute to close following it.

A thread discussing this can be found found at
 
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