SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

[HH]

Good points embers25. However, 99.99% of the staff at SWR (including managers) are the same as they were at SWT. I find it hard to believe that they suddenly turned incompetent, or that a couple of Directors changing has made such a difference either. Certainly hasn't been the case in my experience. I also find it hard to believe that NR are blameless here...

 

[Twotwo]

72 hour strike??

 

[CN75]

Decisions such as this usually have to be ratified at least at board level, if not at the holding company board. In this case there are two holding companies. It's possible that has to led to the negotiating team being given a shorter leash than normal, but that still shouldn't prevent deals being reached. If RMT spring new demands or suggestions in the meeting then they will need to be referred back, thus frustrating a handy negotiating tactic; maybe this is what they're complaining about...

The negotiations are theatrics, designed to look good on all sides for all audiences, but they are never going to achieve anything unless either side accepts a fundamental change in position.

From the very start SWR have said that in line with their contract, they want to keep a guard on their all of the trains, but when there isn’t one unexpectedly they don’t want to have to cancel the train and throw off the passengers. The RMT won’t (yet) accept that proposition. It’s got nothing to do with holding companies, or paymasters, or options available to the negotiators. One side must back down - it’s that simple. There is no third way here, it just looks good to the press, the guards and the passengers.

The fact is the RMT can’t make a local decision or deal without going back to their national executive for approval of it. If their own ‘negotiating team’ made any agreement seen as any extension of permitted DOO(P) with SWR, it would be seen as affecting the other companies in dispute; so then it would be rejected as acceptable by the RMT executive, whose members are elected by RMT branches across all the country. Mick Cash can’t just agree any deal on his own. Therefore such a deal would never be put to the SWR guard members in a ballot for a resolution, even if it would be accepted. The RMT are therefore just as out of options to negotiate on the key issue.

 

[pompeyfan]

The simple but inefficient way to keep passengers moving during disruption is full crew working along with extra spare/cover turns.

During this winter I predict near zero on cancellations due to lack of guard, and that’s because there has been a massive recruitment with some depots seeing uplifts of 18 guards. With the December timetable now not happening until at least May there’s no work available for them, so they’re likely to sit spare until needed.

 

[infobleep]

Nobody is forced to go on strike.

The recurring message that is coming across is that the RMT is having meetings with metaphorical monkeys rather than organ grinders. I don't know what the truth is but more openness from both sides would be welcomed.

You will never get that ever and I don't any government would want openness and transparency in such situations, lest it impacted on their agenda.

 

[theironroad]

72 hour strike??

Despite what the screenshot of the tweet says, it is NOT the bank holiday weekend.

 

[infobleep]

The simple but inefficient way to keep passengers moving during disruption is full crew working along with extra spare/cover turns.

During this winter I predict near zero on cancellations due to lack of guard, and that’s because there has been a massive recruitment with some depots seeing uplifts of 18 guards. With the December timetable now not happening until at least May there’s no work available for them, so they’re likely to sit spare until needed.

What about disruptions due to drivers being dslayed. Never hear companies like SWR saying what they want to do about that?

 

[Joe Paxton]

72 hour strike??

That's the RMT's plan, yes.

www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action

Friday 31 August to Sunday 2 September.

 

[theironroad]

Updated remaining dates for industrial action:

• 0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 18 August 2018
• 0001 Hours on Friday 31 August 2018 to 2359 Hours on Sunday 2 September 2018
• 0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 8 September 2018
• 0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 15 September 2018

 

[Dougal2345]

What about disruptions due to drivers being delayed. Never hear companies like SWR saying what they want to do about that?

They have their evil plans... in a secret bunker under Waterloo, those driverless trains are being quietly assembled (joke!).

Oh, so this strike will disrupt both ends of my holiday, going up to London to catch the Eurostar on Saturday and coming back on the Sunday in a fortnight... I'm not sure whether to be cross with SWR or the RMT, but whatever, I just know I feel a bit cross.

I just wish the Saturday emergency timetable would appear, so I can decide whether it will be possible to travel up early on Saturday in time to catch the Eurostar in the morning, or whether it will be more prudent to travel up on Friday night and pay the £50 extra for a hotel

[ah, the timetable's appeared - there is one train in the morning that gets me to London in time - but if there are any problems with that, I miss the Eurostar and my next two days' worth of train and hotel bookings are wasted, probably £300 or more...]

 

[infobleep]

They have their evil plans... in a secret bunker under Waterloo, those driverless trains are being quietly assembled (joke!).

Oh, so this strike will disrupt both ends of my holiday, going up to London to catch the Eurostar on Saturday and coming back on the Sunday in a fortnight... I'm not sure whether to be cross with SWR or the RMT, but whatever, I just know I feel a bit cross.

I just wish the Saturday emergency timetable would appear, so I can decide whether it will be possible to travel up early on Saturday in time to catch the Eurostar in the morning, or whether it will be more prudent to travel up on Friday night and pay the £50 extra for a hotel

I'd love to see a documentary on how they go about creating timetables for strikes. At which point are they able to say this is the staff we will have, now let's work out what trains we can run and at what times.

The times each Saturday don't seem to have changed on the whole but additional trains have been added.

So perhaps the focus by now is on can we run the trains we had on the previous timetable?

 

[Kite159]

Odd that the 09:21 & 10:21 Salisbury - Waterloo services on Saturday don't appear to be serving Woking looking at the timetable. Doesn't appear to be any other changes compared to previous strike days (hourly service with buses towards Exeter)

 

[Carlisle]

The RMT are therefore just as out of options to negotiate on the key issue.

So in other words the RMT negotiators entered these talks with zero authority and almost zero intention to concede anything really, merely a hope SWR might this time agree to back down to their unions longstanding red lines, which is all very well but as the disruption from these related disputes has now been ongoing nationally for over 2 years, it’s increasingly unlikley any credible elected government (of any colour) will simply give in completely, unless they’re at the point where they themselves are about to fall.

 

[infobleep]

So in other words the RMT negotiators entered these talks with zero authority and almost zero intention to concede anything really, merely a hope SWR might this time agree to back down to the unions longstanding red lines, which is all very well but as the disruption form all these disputes has been ongoing for over 2 years now, it’s increasingly unlikley a government of any colour will just give in completely

Then may the stalemate continue for as long as possible. Obviously it's easy for me to say this as someone who isn't on strike and losing money from striking.

 

[D1009]

Then may the stalemate continue for as long as possible. Obviously it's easy for me to say this as someone who isn't on strike and losing money from striking.

An easy thing to say, but why would you want to say it? In what way can indefinite continuation of the stalemate possibly benefit anyone?

 

[hassaanhc]

Then may the stalemate continue for as long as possible. Obviously it's easy for me to say this as someone who isn't on strike and losing money from striking.

And to hell with us passengers who actually use the railway to get to/from places?

 

[OxtedSignaller]

Remember that the Drivers have DOO(P) in their T&Cs as the default method of working. I honestly think there is more to it than running without a Guard in certain circumstances which is what I also heard. Surely as part of this Door Control will be undertaken by the Driver on suitable rolling stock similar to Anglia as I cannot imagine it will be looked on very favourably from a safety and competency point of view if once in a blue moon the driver undertakes dispatch when a guard is displaced.

 

[winks]

Last time the strikes were on the services were more reliable and quieter.

Couldn’t be more happy.

 

[adamello]

... - if the RMT want to get the public behind them,...

..Otherwise, all the general public and SWR's passengers are hearing is that their Guards are on strike again which means their trains will be cancelled again and want to know why their fares are going up again without anything to show for it. ...

And RMT are doing brilliantly by criticising Chris Graylings statement that changing the Fare Rise inflation rate, to be cheaper for passengers, is a bad thing...

 

[Helvellyn]

And RMT are doing brilliantly by criticising Chris Graylings statement that changing the Fare Rise inflation rate, to be cheaper for passengers, is a bad thing...

Yes, saying that using CPI rather than RPI for cost increases as well as fare increases actually makes sense, as much as it might not be liked. If the press start hammering that point and look at some of the pays deals rail staff have had over the last ten years when so many public sector workers were stuck on 1% sympathy could start to disappear even more. I didn't believe it when someone made the point that if I looked in the Guard's T&Cs (Guards Restructuring Initiative or GRI) from 2000 the agreed consolidated salary for a Commercial Guard was £20,000. Looking where things are now that has increased on average by £1k a year over the last eighteen years. I know that is for a 42 hour average working week, for working 24/7, etc. but I'm sorry, the owning groups are not raking in mega bucks any longer on rail and I don't believe we'd have the salaries we have now if BR was still here.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

They have their evil plans... in a secret bunker under Waterloo, those driverless trains are being quietly assembled (joke!).

..]

..and when that day does dawn literally a handful of control centre operators will be able to hold you all to ransom and demand seven figure salaries (many controllers passed the six figure mark some time ago). be careful of what you wish for.

 

[alastair]

Remember that the Drivers have DOO(P) in their T&Cs as the default method of working. I honestly think there is more to it than running without a Guard in certain circumstances which is what I also heard. Surely as part of this Door Control will be undertaken by the Driver on suitable rolling stock similar to Anglia as I cannot imagine it will be looked on very favourably from a safety and competency point of view if once in a blue moon the driver undertakes dispatch when a guard is displaced.

It seem that many, if not all, SWR empty stock trains run DOO. I remember a couple of years ago joining an Alton/Waterloo train at Farnham (class 450). After a few minutes we were all turfed off because there was no guard. The train then sped off empty. When this happens, who closes the doors and how is the train dispatched?

 

[Twotwo]

It seem that many, if not all, SWR empty stock trains run DOO. I remember a couple of years ago joining an Alton/Waterloo train at Farnham (class 450). After a few minutes we were all turfed off because there was no guard. The train then sped off empty. When this happens, who closes the doors and how is the train dispatched?

The platform staff using CD (close doors) and RA (right away) buttons located on the platform.

 

[nuts & bolts]

It seem that many, if not all, SWR empty stock trains run DOO. I remember a couple of years ago joining an Alton/Waterloo train at Farnham (class 450). After a few minutes we were all turfed off because there was no guard. The train then sped off empty. When this happens, who closes the doors and how is the train dispatched?

The platform staff using CD (close doors) and RA (right away) buttons located on the platform.

CD & RA signals not installed at all stations.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes, saying that using CPI rather than RPI for cost increases as well as fare increases actually makes sense, as much as it might not be liked. If the press start hammering that point and look at some of the pays deals rail staff have had over the last ten years when so many public sector workers were stuck on 1% sympathy could start to disappear even more. I didn't believe it when someone made the point that if I looked in the Guard's T&Cs (Guards Restructuring Initiative or GRI) from 2000 the agreed consolidated salary for a Commercial Guard was £20,000. Looking where things are now that has increased on average by £1k a year over the last eighteen years. I know that is for a 42 hour average working week, for working 24/7, etc. but I'm sorry, the owning groups are not raking in mega bucks any longer on rail and I don't believe we'd have the salaries we have now if BR was still here.

I strongly believe that if privatisation had never happened (I'm not a fan, incidentally) average salaries would be lower and there'd be a lot more DOO.

Until recently the private TOCs have been extremely risk averse when it comes to industrial relations. This has greatly benefitted staff in improving pay and conditions. BR was far from risk averse in this respect, utterly ruthless at times in fact, because it had nothing to lose.

 

[infobleep]

And to hell with us passengers who actually use the railway to get to/from places?

I'm a passenger too but as a passenger I want a guard on all my trains.

Here's another example of my one shouldn't get a smart ticket. It's not valid in London buses during the disruption. Previously I assume, due to a lack of detailed info saying it wasn't valid, I assume it had to be. I must add I think there was no info saying only paper tickets valid. I don't remember seeing any. If I'm incorrect then please say so.

Also if your wishing to get from Surbtion to Hampton Court, do they expect one to walk to Kingston to get the bus? Is ones ticket valid to Kingston railway station, in order to pick up the bus.

Transport for London
If you have a paper Single, Return or Season ticket between rail stations on the following bus routes, you can present it to the driver of the bus for travel in either direction at no extra charge:
- Route 111: Hampton – Hampton Court – Kingston
- Route 216: Sunbury – Hampton – Hampton Court – Kingston
- Route 290: Staines – Sunbury – Fulwell – Twickenham
- Route 411: Hampton Court – Kingston
- Route K2: Berrylands – Surbiton

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action

 

[Carlisle]

CD & RA signals not installed at all stations.

At some locations, platform staff will walk through the train, closing the doors as they go, then inform the driver the trais empty and ready to go

 

[cactustwirly]

They have their evil plans... in a secret bunker under Waterloo, those driverless trains are being quietly assembled (joke!).

Oh, so this strike will disrupt both ends of my holiday, going up to London to catch the Eurostar on Saturday and coming back on the Sunday in a fortnight... I'm not sure whether to be cross with SWR or the RMT, but whatever, I just know I feel a bit cross.

I just wish the Saturday emergency timetable would appear, so I can decide whether it will be possible to travel up early on Saturday in time to catch the Eurostar in the morning, or whether it will be more prudent to travel up on Friday night and pay the £50 extra for a hotel

[ah, the timetable's appeared - there is one train in the morning that gets me to London in time - but if there are any problems with that, I miss the Eurostar and my next two days' worth of train and hotel bookings are wasted, probably £300 or more...]

Get a ticket to 'London International CIV', so if there are any problems with your journey to St Pancras, Eurostar would be obliged to put you on the next train.

 

[D1009]

Get a ticket to 'London International CIV', so if there are any problems with your journey to St Pancras, Eurostar would be obliged to put you on the next train.

Does that apply even when the next train is fully booked, which is the case quite often this time of year?

 

[Dougal2345]

Get a ticket to 'London International CIV', so if there are any problems with your journey to St Pancras, Eurostar would be obliged to put you on the next train.

Not a bad idea thanks, although I'm going London-Berlin starting at 10:54, arriving 21:06, so if things did go wrong, taking a later Eurostar might leave me unable to get to Berlin at all the same day, which would then mess up my Sunday and Monday train bookings... I'm planning to use a free SWT 'Gold Card' weekend ticket to get up to London (hope they are still being accepted by SWR!), so I've decided travelling up to-night and £50 Travelodge in London is the safest plan...