SWR Longest Strike - December 2019

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by theironroad, 2 Dec 2019 at 12:51.

  1. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    So today is day 1 of the SWR month long December strike after 38 days of other strikes over the past couple of years. One news report suggested it is the longest continuous strike in railway history, but I've not checked that c!aim tbh.

    How are people's experiences of travelling so far and will it affect where you work in the future or change travel patterns long term?

    Plenty of tweets suggesting overcrowding and long queue at some stations, how's it been for RFers?

    This is NOT a thread for more endless discussion about the pros and cons of DOO/DCO or any other variety, just about how people are getting on or maybe looking for some tips and advice from fellow passengers.
     
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  3. duncanp

    duncanp Member

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    I don't suppose this incident at Woking helped matters

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-50627294

    After the incident in London on Friday, you would have thought that some people would be a bit more careful.

     
  4. zoneking

    zoneking Member

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    Awful so far. Various reports of cancelled and short trains. Short trains should not be happening. All trains should be max length. Signal failure (again) in Wokingham area. Us fare paying passengers/customers being treated like dirt yet again. Most of what I want to say is unprintable.
     
  5. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Live departure boards on National Rail Enquiries don't show anything cancelled. Is this because they show a reduced timetable and actually many normal services have béen cancelled?
     
  6. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Just glad at the end of last year I refused to continue to be forced to have to cart myself to Guildford from Hull every Monday and Friday.
     
  7. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Wow, hadn't realised about that. Wouldn't be great at the best of times. I wonder why he was carrying it?
     
  8. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Unfortunately, signalling will fail and other infrastructure issues will continue, but agree there's really no reason for short formed trains, especially into Waterloo.
     
  9. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    The revised strike timetable is uploaded into the main database* so only trains planned to run will show up and it's only on these trains that delay repay can be c!aimed.

    * For reasons swr should explain, these are often only uploaded at very short notice especially for weekends which gives people checking in advance a false set of results of trains that may or may not operate.
     
  10. kristiang85

    kristiang85 Member

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    This morning wasn't too bad in terms of crowding on the fast line; I got on at Basingstoke. I had a seat (from being at the end of the platform; I can never fathom why people want to play sardines for an hour just to be in the front), and generally the travelling public were good natured and calm. But for the suburban lines it looked a lot more chaotic.

    The train was late however (by the magic 14 minutes and 45 seconds off the amended timetable), and given my normal service was cancelled, I arrived 33 minutes later than I normally do. But SWR are giving out diddlysquit for season ticket holders with these kind of inconveniences, so this will grate with me as the month goes on. I'm certainly going to pull a Section 75 on them after this has all finished, especially as some of my planned evenings in London over the Christimas period are going to be ruined by their early final services.
     
  11. embers25

    embers25 Established Member

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    The 0510 from Exeter was cancelled as far as Salisbury, but it's ok as the next train was in FOUR hours! Stagecoach appear to be running some/all of the strike buses in Exeter this time (first Kernow did last time) which, given they have been struggling with driver availability for weeks in Exeter, with numerous cancellations, doesn't bode well for our local bus service.
     
  12. headshot119

    headshot119 Established Member

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    I'm not sure that's quite accurate, if people have booked ahead of time and have an itinerary that's what they should be claiming against.
     
  13. Bensonby

    Bensonby Member

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    indeed, surely compensation should be made against the time of trains advertised at the time of purchase as a basic tenant of consumer law?


    People have been querying compensation due to season ticket holders on Twitter and they are being advised it will be down to delays against the “amended timetable”. I have explicitly queried this but not had a reply.
     
  14. 43066

    43066 Member

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    It does seem ridiculous not to maximise the lengths of all trains running.

    Any idea what the reasoning behind the short forming is (if any!)?
     
  15. SWT_USER

    SWT_USER Member

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    A lengthier commute for me from Ashford as the only trains stopping are all stations from Windsor to Waterloo, but overall I don't have it too bad as I still get a seat. The train was full and standing by Isleworth and leaving people behind after Brentford.

    In my case it was already 11 minutes late at Ashford and lost a further 10 minutes before Waterloo due to the extended dwell times.
     
  16. 3141

    3141 Established Member

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    I travelled from Overton to Waterloo on the 0955. This train had started at Salisbury at 0921. Normally it would have started from Exeter at 0725 and would not have stopped at Overton. It had 8 coaches. Some people were standing but I found a seat without difficulty. It arrived at Waterloo one minute later than scheduled. I returned on the 14.20 which had 9 coaches. I was in coach 2 which had plenty of unoccupied seats. But I'd expect peak hour trains to be much busier.
     
  17. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Could you elaborate as to what a Section 75 is, please?
     
  18. duncanp

    duncanp Member

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    Possibly a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

    Although that only covers purchases over £100.
     
  19. SWT_USER

    SWT_USER Member

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    I seem to remember a story of a successful S75 claim during the Southern strikes a couple of years ago - American Express were the card issuer in that case I think.
     
  20. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Thanks.
     
  21. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Swr Twitter claims delay repay is against revised timetable and I understand that if the normal timetable is cancelled and a new one issued (same with severe weather,) then the new timetable is the benchmark. annual and monthly season ticket holders seem to be putting pressure on swr for some form of compensation which doesn't seem unreasonable.

    For advance tickets, the normal advice has been to travel on a train near the original time, but that's seems flexible.

    No doubt customer services will be inundated and consider c!aims on a case by case basis.
     
  22. Joe Paxton

    Joe Paxton Established Member

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    I think that was more about Amex and their generous approach to customer service rather than an acceptance that a S75 claim was valid in such circumstances. Despite much talk, I don't think it was repeated elsewhere with other card issuers (i.e. other than Amex).
     
  23. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    It might be in the mind of SWR, but I would be quite surprised if a Judge, of they were ever asked, came to this view.
     
  24. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    I think so too... however.

    Claims made under the Consumer Credit Act, where there is strong supporting evidence that the service isn't being delivered and the customer is eligible (that is they paid by credit card for a service worth a qualifying amount) are a matter of law rather than of customer service.

    If a proper claim is made to the card issuer and the consumer does not like their decision, they could complain to the Financial Ombudsman. Of course, the Ombudsman cannot change any card scheme rules or make enforcement of them, but they can look at:
    - Has the card issuer complied with the law?
    - Has the card issuer treated the customer fairly at every stage of the process?
    - What is standard industry practice?

    The American Express case can therefore become relevant to the third point.

    I do not know how much exactly could be claimed back, but there is solid evidence to go in support of any claim, not least SWR's website which admits that almost half of all services are not running.

    Others will know more than me about the role of the Financial Ombudsman and the Consumer Credit Act.

    Anyone who is unhappy with the service who was lucky enough to have bought a season ticket using a credit card has at least four bites of the cherry that come at no cost:

    1. Complain to SWR claiming a partial refund, and exhaust their normal complaints procedure.
    2. Complain to the Rail Ombudsman about the claim you made if SWR wouldn't pay.
    3. Make a claim under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act to your card issuer.
    4. Complain to the Financial Ombudsman about the decision made by your card issuer if you don't like it.

    Even if all four opportunities failed, you could still I believe make a claim at the County Court. You might like to think carefully about doing that though after going through all of the above.

    If the season ticket is for a journey where there are no trains, or next to no trains (e.g. If it is a season ticket from Wanborough or Chandlers Ford) then the case for a claim under Section 75 would become overwhelming. If a season ticket is bought for travel from a particular station which then doesn't have any trains for a whole month, meaning that the ticket cannot be used, it shouldn't be too difficult to get a judgement either.
     
    Last edited: 3 Dec 2019 at 00:56
  25. Alex C.

    Alex C. Member

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    The Financial Ombudsman are generally pretty pro-consumer as well and their decisions are binding. I could only find one decision that has been published where they ordered a bank to repay 50% of the prorata season ticket cost due to the industrial action - link here: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/237638/DRN9994576.pdf - they have probably dealt with similar cases but only cases which are appealed by either party are published.

    I would encourage anyone who has paid with a credit card to make a section 75 claim with their credit card provider, and to make a formal complaint if this is not successful. Each complaint costs the credit card issuer around £550 just to be dealt with (free to the consumer) and as such, they will likely pay up quickly if they think it is due.

    I would also imagine that given the number of city professionals who commute into London, there will be some sort of test case through the courts before long.
     
  26. Horizon22

    Horizon22 Member

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    I'm looking to get home to family after my shift on Christmas Eve and am not looking forward to that at all.
     
  27. SWT_USER

    SWT_USER Member

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    Second day of the strike and second day the 06.48 has left Windsor over 10 minutes late and the following 07.18 has started short at Staines. Looks like something has done wrong with planning the ECS moves to form these services.
     
  28. zoneking

    zoneking Member

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    Both the 06.34 and the 07.04 from Epsom to Waterloo were cancelled this morning. Shortage of train crew was the reason. People from Epsom itself have an alternative (Southern to Victoria or London Bridge), but people in some of the stations further down, such as Worcester Park, do not.
     
  29. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    As I'd imagine many top judges, leading barristers and legal counsel are daily commuters on SWR's patch and many, many more individuals and groups popping up since first took over I'm sure someone has already tried and tested it, I'd be surprised if not.
     
  30. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    does anyone but me find it funny that the bloke in the story is called mr bangs??
     
  31. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Can we leave discussions about compensation and Section 75 to a separate thread please, if any so wishes to discuss it strongly.

    Please bear in mind the topic of this thread and try not to stray too far.

    Same applies in respect of discussions about the dispute itself.
     

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