SWT 456s, opportunities for new services?

[SansPareil]

I noticed a few weeks ago that some of the South West Trains class 456 training runs out of Strawberry Hill depot were shuttling back and forth between Shepperton and Twickenham, rather than between Shepperton and Kingston

When they were doing this they were arriving into Platform 3 at Twickenham, which is the slow London Bound platform, at around 15 minutes past the hour, Just after the clockwise Kingston Loop Line train. Departing back towards Shepperton from platform 3 using the crossover to the west of Twickenham Station to access the Kingston Loop at around 25 minutes past the hour. Just after the services to/from Windsor and Eton Riverside had departed from platforms 5/4 respectively, and shortly before the anticlockwise Hounslow Loop service was due into platform 3.

I was wondering if this was some sort of attempt to see if it could be achieved within the current service pattern. For simple training runs it seemed excessively risky in terms of the potential to disrupt other services, compared with just running to Kingston, or was there some other reason for not running to Kingston?

Could we potentially see the introduction of a Twickenham to Shepperton off peak shuttle running every hour or half hour using single 456s? The training runs clearly show it can be achieved within the current timetable, the improved frequency of services on the Shepperton Branch, with much greater connectivity to the Reading/Windsor lines would undoubtedly improve loadings off peak?

Has there been any discussion about whether the 456s will be used singly on some routes in the off peak, possibly at weekends?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would a 456 be able to run between Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier? I know that's off their normal area of use but it could free up the Desiro and 158 (or is it a 159) that SWT uses on the Lymington branch.

 

[Monty]

The possible use of the 456's on the Lymington branch have been discussed extensively in previous threads, the general consensus is that is not a viable option even if it does appear to be the ideal solution. The crews who work the Lymington branch already sign 158/9s and there is always one available to work the service. The hassle of moving for what is basically a non standard unit to the line and training the crew is just not worth it, in addition you'll need to send the thing back to Wimbledon everytime it needs an exam.

 

[SansPareil]

SWT yahoo group seems to be reporting the 456 may be going into service from Monday on the Ascot to Guildford services. Anyone able to confirm or deny?

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT yahoo group seems to be reporting the 456 may be going into service from Monday on the Ascot to Guildford services. Anyone able to confirm or deny?

SWT have confirmed the use on the Ascot to Guildford route previously:

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/longertrains.aspx

..but they seem to be starting a week earlier than in that announcement, as next week was definitely confirmed in the web chat a few days ago:

Question: 167
Why are you not using the green trains already? I know you've had problems with the 458/5s, but the 456s were in working order right up until their last day on Southern...
Answer:
The green 456 trains will be intoduced into passenger service next week. The time from January was required to do some modifications to make them compatible with our trains as well as traincrew training.

...and apparently they've also put posters up at stations indicating they start Monday; as is being discussed in our other ongoing 456 thread in the rolling stock section here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93187&page=8

That should be enough evidence...

 

[TEW]

Two 456s have also been stabled in the carriage sidings at Guildford since this afternoon.

 

[Aictos]

The possible use of the 456's on the Lymington branch have been discussed extensively in previous threads, the general consensus is that is not a viable option even if it does appear to be the ideal solution. The crews who work the Lymington branch already sign 158/9s and there is always one available to work the service. The hassle of moving for what is basically a non standard unit to the line and training the crew is just not worth it, in addition you'll need to send the thing back to Wimbledon everytime it needs an exam.

One slight little criticism of your post is the Class 456s have recently just been cleared for that little branch line, believe there was a NR document circulated recently backing this up.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I noticed a few weeks ago that some of the South West Trains class 456 training runs out of Strawberry Hill depot were shuttling back and forth between Shepperton and Twickenham, rather than between Shepperton and Kingston

When they were doing this they were arriving into Platform 3 at Twickenham, which is the slow London Bound platform, at around 15 minutes past the hour, Just after the clockwise Kingston Loop Line train. Departing back towards Shepperton from platform 3 using the crossover to the west of Twickenham Station to access the Kingston Loop at around 25 minutes past the hour. Just after the services to/from Windsor and Eton Riverside had departed from platforms 5/4 respectively, and shortly before the anticlockwise Hounslow Loop service was due into platform 3.

I was wondering if this was some sort of attempt to see if it could be achieved within the current service pattern. For simple training runs it seemed excessively risky in terms of the potential to disrupt other services, compared with just running to Kingston, or was there some other reason for not running to Kingston?

Could we potentially see the introduction of a Twickenham to Shepperton off peak shuttle running every hour or half hour using single 456s? The training runs clearly show it can be achieved within the current timetable, the improved frequency of services on the Shepperton Branch, with much greater connectivity to the Reading/Windsor lines would undoubtedly improve loadings off peak?

Has there been any discussion about whether the 456s will be used singly on some routes in the off peak, possibly at weekends?

I Live in Shepperton and agree that anything to improve services in this line would be great.

(There have been alot of renovations at Twickers recently, it's a shame they could not have opened platform 2 up as a London bound through platform, with Platform one kept as a bay for rugger trains. I think there would have been enough room to do these extentions which would have allowed more possible operations.)

Infact I was going to ask a question here. I travel on the 0730 from Shepperton via Twickenham to Richmond. This train stands at Twickers for about 5-8 mins to let a faster service from Windsor to overtake us. Normally that train is a blue 8 coach desiro, but in this past week, it has been a blue train, but with 10 coaches and it looks more like a juniper type train that is normally used on the WAT to Reading route. I am not sure what type of unit that was? I did not think it was a new class 456.

 

[gswindale]

Hi,

That sounds like it would be one of the 458/5 units if it looks like a Juniper but longer and blue.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Hi,

That sounds like it would be one of the 458/5 units if it looks like a Juniper but longer and blue.

Thank you, that would make sense. Am I correct in thinking these have been made using coaches from some of the Gatwick Expresses, that have now been replaced by the SWT Wessex Electrics. ? (Which I prefer rather than the white desiros that replaced those on the Weymouth route.)

 

[trentside]

Thank you, that would make sense. Am I correct in thinking these have been made using coaches from some of the Gatwick Expresses, that have now been replaced by the SWT Wessex Electrics. ? (Which I prefer rather than the white desiros that replaced those on the Weymouth route.)

That's right - the 458/5s are either completely rebuilt 460s or 458/0s with a carriage from a 460 added.

 

[Top Cat]

In answer to SansPareil, the units were being used between Shepperton and Twickenham instead of to Kingston for crew training due to Kingston Bay being out of use due to signalling work.

 

[SansPareil]

Thank you for the reply Top Cat, I imagined there was probably a more straightforward explanation. I'm surprised the crossover at Strawberry Hill wasn't used instead, perhaps that too was out of action due to signalling works. I did think it was interesting that this 'gap' in the timetable at Twickenham existed that allowed for the turning of services.

In response to stevieboy, I don't know if you have seen the Solum regeneration plans for Twickenham Station, but I believe these indicate 4 through platforms, but with platform 1 being lost to the redevelopment. There also seems to be some development going on next to the railway boundary adjacent to the old post office site. Hopefully this won't preclude future expansion and improvements at Twickenham. I certainly feel there is scope for improving frequencies by allowing some services to terminate from the west. In fact that seems to be the basis of some of the Crossrail 2 plans.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Thank you for the reply Top Cat, I imagined there was probably a more straightforward explanation. I'm surprised the crossover at Strawberry Hill wasn't used instead, perhaps that too was out of action due to signalling works. I did think it was interesting that this 'gap' in the timetable at Twickenham existed that allowed for the turning of services.

In response to stevieboy, I don't know if you have seen the Solum regeneration plans for Twickenham Station, but I believe these indicate 4 through platforms, but with platform 1 being lost to the redevelopment. There also seems to be some development going on next to the railway boundary adjacent to the old post office site. Hopefully this won't preclude future expansion and improvements at Twickenham. I certainly feel there is scope for improving frequencies by allowing some services to terminate from the west. In fact that seems to be the basis of some of the Crossrail 2 plans.

Hi, Yes I had heard something about regeneration at Twickenham Station, also in connection with the Rugby world Cup next year. I have also noticed the building works you mention by the post office area, I think that access from the country direction to platform 2 would still be possible though. Having 4 platforms, (two in either direction would be very useful.) At the moment it's 2 lines towards London, but just one, through platform 5, coming away from London. Here's hoping.

I also have noticed in the past couple of days, 2, two car, southern units calling at Twickenham around 0800 am, that appear to be operating the SWT to Guildford via Ascot which is usually a blue desiro or juniper I think, which are perhaps being renovated.