SWT calling at Wimbledon

[NSE]

I regularly travel through Wimbledon but don't often use it. However I ended up using it a lot over the past weekend. Whilst here, I was able to see just how many passengers get off northbound services towards Waterloo. It just got me thinking, is there scope for longer distance services to stop? I'm not expecting Weymouth and Exeter services, but maybe something like the half hourly Basingstoke service. Of course, it would probably have to switch to using the slow lines, and I know the SWML isn't exactly flush with capacity. But it would mean that passengers heading north could change onto Tube/Tram and (I know it's not a key Thameslink station) the ever expanding Thameslink network.

It's purely a hypothetical wonder, I know there are services to Woking and Guildford, and changes can be made at Surbiton heading south. But I just wondered.

 

[455driver]

You have answered your own question, there isn't the capacity because if a train stopped it would have to drop back into another path, all of which are taken, it can't switch to the slow lines because all paths are taken again.

The reason the Surbiton calls are possible is because the Kingston/Shepperton/Epsom services have turned off the mainline freeing up paths on the slow lines.

Edit-
Eventually something is going to have to change because the number of people wanting Wimbledon and Clapham jn is increasing all the time and that just puts more pressure on the stoppers from Surbiton/Woking.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There just isn't the capacity on the slow lines to add 2-4 trains per hour plus moving from the fast to slow lines effectively blocks both lines for 2-3 minutes which is just not practical. On Sundays there Basingstoke/Alton splitters do stop at Wimbledon but only on the fast lines.

 

[NSE]

Yeah I figured capacity would be the answer. It just seems like a big station where the connections could be well used. Mind you, I s'pose its equally easy to get to Surbiton or Clapham

 

[James Wake]

On Sundays, the half hourly Basingstoke/Alton services call at Wimbledon in both directions on the fast lines, but of course there is less capacity on a Sunday. Usually quite a few get off, I once did coming from Fleet to Wimbledon, then caught a tram as there were no trains between Victoria and Croydon via Clapham Junction, so I picked up a Sussex Coast service at East Croydon instead.

 

[NSE]

Yeah thats the sort of connection I was thinking could be used. I know its quick to Clapham Junction and trains from there are quick to Croydon etc, but for I'd imagine that when you combine the passengers on the tram route, the District line and the Thameslink loop, there would be scope for a Basingstoke stopper every day. But like you say, its the capacity that kills it.

 

[Bertie the bus]

There just isn't the capacity on the slow lines to add 2-4 trains per hour plus moving from the fast to slow lines effectively blocks both lines for 2-3 minutes which is just not practical. On Sundays there Basingstoke/Alton splitters do stop at Wimbledon but only on the fast lines.

Presumably they'd have to cross from the fast to the slow and then back to the fast again after Wimbledon as there wouldn't be capacity at Waterloo for them to use the suburban platforms.

 

[NSE]

Presumably they'd have to cross from the fast to the slow and then back to the fast again after Wimbledon as there wouldn't be capacity at Waterloo for them to use the suburban platforms.

I guess the only way would be something like speed up and extend existing the Woking slows to Basingstoke and switch to 450 operation if possible. But then you'd be duplicating the current Basingstoke ones just to add in Wimbledon stops. Maybe the Basingstoke ones could then themselves be sped up and sent as a local terminator towards Southampton.

Ahh pipe dreams. Fantastic in our heads eh :P

 

[HarleyDavidson]

There just isn't the capacity on the slow lines to add 2-4 trains per hour plus moving from the fast to slow lines effectively blocks both lines for 2-3 minutes which is just not practical. On Sundays there Basingstoke/Alton splitters do stop at Wimbledon but only on the fast lines.

And that stop screws up the following Portsmouth (EH)/Poole, which almost always gets stopped on the signal outside Wimbledon waiting for the Basing/Alton to get out of the way. Another stunning bit of planning by the TPU! :roll:

 

[Feathers44]

And that stop screws up the following Portsmouth (EH)/Poole, which almost always gets stopped on the signal outside Wimbledon waiting for the Basing/Alton to get out of the way. Another stunning bit of planning by the TPU! :roll:

But for the parents with kids standing on the bridge just outside Wimbledon on a Sunday (yes, that used to be me) that means you get a look at a nice "fast train" sitting on the up fast for a bit before it's allowed to move on.

(The kids are now basically teenagers so standing on a bridge looking at a stationary train is no longer an acceptable activity. Riding on a train is still OK, however.)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yep, the perfect place for the local yobbos to urinate & spit on the train and throw stones at it and if you think that the CCTV camera stops them doing it, you've gotta be joking.

I mean even I've been flashed by a guy there, he gotta a rather curt response from me when I shouted at him, "hold on, I need a moment to assemble my microscope so I can see what you're showing me".

 

[TEW]

And that stop screws up the following Portsmouth (EH)/Poole, which almost always gets stopped on the signal outside Wimbledon waiting for the Basing/Alton to get out of the way. Another stunning bit of planning by the TPU! :roll:

Not that that really matters, as Poole & Portsmouth trains sit at Woking for nearly 10 minutes on a Sunday normally anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

It seems like the xx42 Basingstoke service from Waterloo should stop at Wimbledon off-peak but doesn't. The xx12 stops at Clapham Junction and both the xx15 and xx45 Portsmouth line services call at Clapham Junction also so there would appear to be scope for the Wimbledon stop on the fast line. However, I guess that it would be an operational inconvenience and maybe the corresponding up service would be less easy to path.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It seems like the xx42 Basingstoke service from Waterloo should stop at Wimbledon off-peak but doesn't. The xx12 stops at Clapham Junction and both the xx15 and xx45 Portsmouth line services call at Clapham Junction also so there would appear to be scope for the Wimbledon stop on the fast line. However, I guess that it would be an operational inconvenience and maybe the corresponding up service would be less easy to path.

You can't because you have the xx:45 to Portsmouth & xx:15 to Haslemere to pass through Wimbledon, just 3-4' behind it, if they get delayed then they knock the following 1Pxx (xx:00 & xx:30) services, the xx:30 (which already takes a thundering great hit due to stupidity by TPU in making it follow the stopper to Haslemere from Guildford) to do a 13' journey from Guildford to Haslemere, which thanks to them takes 20'!

Also the xx:45 & xx:15 are closely followed by 1Lxx to Sarum & Exeter/Bristol (Yeovil/Gillingham), which are again closely followed by 1Axx to Alton (Woe betide anyone who delays them!) and we come full circle to 1Pxx & 1Wxx, which again are followed by 1Txx or 1Bxx.

So there's absolutely NO space to stop the 2Lxx services at Wimbledon, that's why SWT keep telling passengers (which unfortunately is rather like talking to a brick wall) that they can't stop anymore at Clapham as it would cause congestion and it already does!

 

[JonathanH]

You can't because you have the xx:45 to Portsmouth & xx:15 to Haslemere to pass through Wimbledon, just 3-4' behind it, if they get delayed then they knock the following 1Pxx (xx:00 & xx:30) services, the xx:30 (which already takes a thundering great hit due to stupidity by TPU in making it follow the stopper to Haslemere from Guildford) to do a 13' journey from Guildford to Haslemere, which thanks to them takes 20'!

Also the xx:45 & xx:15 are closely followed by 1Lxx to Sarum & Exeter/Bristol (Yeovil/Gillingham), which are again closely followed by 1Axx to Alton (Woe betide anyone who delays them!) and we come full circle to 1Pxx & 1Wxx, which again are followed by 1Txx or 1Bxx.

So there's absolutely NO space to stop the 2Lxx services at Wimbledon, that's why SWT keep telling passengers (which unfortunately is rather like talking to a brick wall) that they can't stop anymore at Clapham as it would cause congestion and it already does!

Yes, so it would seem (and has been the case for the last 11 years). However, in the case that the xx42 can't stop at Wimbledon, why does the xx12 from Waterloo stop at Clapham Junction? Surely the effect of this is to delay the xx15 service.

 

[455driver]

Yes, so it would seem (and has been the case for the last 11 years). However, in the case that the xx42 can't stop at Wimbledon, why does the xx12 from Waterloo stop at Clapham Junction? Surely the effect of this is to delay the xx15 service.

Yes it does which is why the xx15 will take its time from Waterloo, there is no point going anywhere near linespeed because you know you will catch the xx15 up as it makes its call at CLJ.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You only need to achieve about 45 mph between Waterloo - Clapham with an xx:15, because if you go much faster you just end up stopping outside Clapham and then running on a mix of double yellows & single yellows between there and Surbiton!

 

[JonathanH]

You only need to achieve about 45 mph between Waterloo - Clapham with an xx:15, because if you go much faster you just end up stopping outside Clapham and then running on a mix of double yellows & single yellows between there and Surbiton!

Yes, but I suspect that despite this the xx15 still gets to Woking on time. Whether it causes that journey to be slow or not is just lost in the way that South West Trains padded out the timetable in December 2004.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You can drive a xx:45 or xx:15 at no more than 80 mph between Surbiton & West Byfleet and then coast into Woking arriving exactly on time.

If you do the full 90 from Hampton Ct junction, you will get stopped outside Woking because of yet more poor timetabling as there's a conflict between it and the 2Fxx to Woking bay. You can do 90 to Oatlands, shut off and let it coast and hope that the 2Fxx is on time.

The 2004 timetable TBQH is [censored], I can remember the better times when Guildford was 30' dead, Pompey was just 75', Southampton Ctl 80', Bournemouth ~105'.

 

[hassaanhc]

The connections at Weybridge are quite diabolical too.

The 2Lxx stopper from Basingstoke towards Waterloo arrives at Weybridge 2 minutes after the 2Sxx stopper towards Chertsey and Hounslow has left :roll:. Only for the 2Sxx to wait for 9 minutes three stops later at Virginia Water to allow a 2Cxx from Reading to overtake. Departing later from Weybridge doesn't work either as the incoming train is waiting impatiently to get in!
Going from a 2Sxx service from Chertsey to a 2Lxx service towards Basingstoke isn't much better, with a 4 minute connection. However, it doesn't meet Minimum Connection Time (MCT), so journey planners enforce a wait of 20 minutes for the 2Fxx stopper to Woking.
In the peaks there are also issues with the xx02/xx32 2Fxx extras missing the 6 minute connection onto the 2Sxx services, which are retimed from xx03/xx33 to xx07/xx37 for the peak period. At least it allows a tight 2 minute connection from the 2Lxx services from Basingstoke!

Timekeeping can also be poor on the 2Oxx services from Waterloo towards Kingston via Richmond, missing the 5 minute connection at Teddington for the 2Hxx service to Shepperton.

Luckily at Hounslow I haven't really noticed any issues with the Mon-Sat timetable in the almost 2 years I've been using the line regularly. Ok the timetabling at Barnes can be a bit better, as all trains turning right towards Barnes Bridge have to wait for something to cross in front, which sometimes delays our train, but the timetable usually holds well. I'm not bothered by the 2004 change that changed the 2tph fast via Brentford (taking 30 minutes) into all station stoppers (taking 40 minutes). Making the intermediate stations 4tph caused usage on the line to significantly increase. However, the line is quiet off-peak, and even most of the peak direction services I use (out from Waterloo in the evening usually) are only wedged as far as Putney (if that).
The Sunday timetable saw no change however, with the 1tph frequency remaining unchanged. At least it is finally being amended to give 2tph from 1200 until 2100.