SWT Ticket offices "not allowed" to give passengers copy of NRCoC

[maniacmartin]

I was at Clapham Junction ticket office this morning, because I wanted to get a paper copy of the NRCoC. The clerk went to look for a copy, but couldn't find one. She then decided to print a copy off for me, but found some sort of note in the computer system that said that they were not allowed, and went to find a supervisor.

Despite me showing the reverse of my ticket that states that the NRCoC is available at all staffed ticket offices, the supervisor said that they were not allowed to print the NRCoC off to give me a copy, nor were they prepared to print the note syaing that they were not allowed, nor was he prepared to put it in writing that he refused to give me a copy, but invited me to write to their customer services address.

I then asked whether it was SWT policy to refuse to give passengers a copy of the NRCoC, and was told that it was, because the NRCoC is written by ATOC., and that it could only be obtained from their customer services department by post.

How can I get CLJ staff to give me a copy of the NRCoC?

 

[yorkie]

That's not in line with SWTs policy

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/passengerscharter.aspx

Copies of this Passenger's Charter and the National Rail Conditions can be viewed using the links provided, free of charge from staffed stations or our Customer Service Centre.

Perhaps SWT Customer Services could be contacted, to enquire if this policy still applies, and if so would it be possible to remind Clapham Junction of the location of Company policies, so that they can be fully complaint in future?

 

[Ferret]

That's not in line with SWTs policy

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/passengerscharter.aspx


Perhaps SWT Customer Services could be contacted, to enquire if this policy still applies, and if so would it be possible to remind Clapham Junction of the location of Company policies, so that they can be fully complaint in future?

Did somebody in the office get confused between NRCoC and FRPP?!

 

[maniacmartin]

They did give me a copy of the Passenger Charter though, even though I didn't ask for it! If only I'd looked on page 3 of it before I left the station.

I will try again tonight, showing them the paragraph in the charter

 

[district]

I have had problems with both Southeastern and First Great Western with them refusing to issue me with the NRCOC. Southeastern gave me out of date copies on a number of occasions, and when I explained that my ticket said I should be able to get it, told me that my ticket was printed on 'old stock' and this no longer applies.

First Great Western told me I could only read the NRCOC at the window and also said ''ATOC haven't given us any to give out''.

 

[maniacmartin]

I've just called SWT customer services who claimed that I definately should have been given a copy if they had some available, but that station staff are not allowed to print off a copy if there are none in stock.

Also, the customer services had no copies of the NRCoC in stock to post to me, nor were they allowed to print it out. He said that I could get it from the website though.

The advisor was unable to comment on when they may get more copies back in stock.

My local London Overground station also has no copies available.

Is this worth taking to London Travelwatch?

 

[yorkie]

Quite possibly.

Do the London Overground staff at your local station actually admit the NRCoC applies, and do they agree that London Overground complies with it? Given my experiences of LO stations and what I've heard, you'd do well to get them to admit that, let alone get a copy of it!

 

[Flamingo]

Well, as you have access to a computer, why not save the environment and look at it online?

 

[yorkie]

Well, as you have access to a computer, why not save the environment and look at it online?

That would be fine if all staff were familiar with it and adhered to it Unfortunately it's not uncommon on certain lines in that area to be refused basic rights by staff who think the NRCoC does not apply to them, or their Company. Therefore, it can be useful to carry a physical copy.

 

[wibble]

SWT's policy is not to have the NRCoC available in leaflet racks - I believe the print version was withdrawn several years ago.

However, if a customer requests a printed copy from the ticket office, the clerk should print one if they are able to.

 

[snail]

I'm not surprised there are instructions to not print off copies because of the expense but there should be 'official' booklets available to the public.

Note also that there is a difference between 'viewed' and 'obtained'. I read that as saying you can go to an office and look at a copy but not necessarily take that copy away with you.

 

[Flamingo]

Note also that there is a difference between 'viewed' and 'obtained'. I read that as saying you can go to an office and look at a copy but not necessarily take that copy away with you.

That would be my interpretation as well, I have to say.

 

[maniacmartin]

I need a physical copy as I need it to justify the route I take, and some staff won't accept a hand printed one as proof of the rules. My ticket says "copies of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and Permitted Routes are available at Ticket Offices".

The argument is moot anyway, as they wouldn't even let me look at a copy.

Also, how does the website help someone who wants a ticket for immediate travel? Are you suggesting that passengers should be obliged to use a computer to download a copy?

 

[Flamingo]

Just a thought (hypothetical) but if they were available to view, but at a charge for a physical copy, would that be acceptable, does anybody think?

 

[yorkie]

That definitely needs to go to London Travelwatch - unless, of course, LO take steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

 

[maniacmartin]

That definitely needs to go to London Travelwatch - unless, of course, LO take steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

This thread was about South West Trains. (but LO also refuse to let passengers view it)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just a thought (hypothetical) but if they were available to view, but at a charge for a physical copy, would that be acceptable, does anybody think?

Should I have to pay to get a copy of the contract I've entered into? I don't think so. In fact I don't think a contract can even be formed unless both parties have a copy or access to its terms, under contract law. (But I am not a lawyer).

I've spent a considerable amount of money on an annual season ticket, and its not good customer service to then try to charge for a copy of the contract that governs it.

 

[Ediswan]

Do 'proper' printed copies (rather than computer printout) of the current conditions actually exist ?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The advisor was unable to comment on when they may get more copies back in stock.

My local London Overground station also has no copies available.

I was under the impression that hard copies were no longer being printed or distributed, and that the latest version is only available online (hence the change of wording to "may be viewed", as there are not going to be any copies to give out any more). I think I read that on here somewhere - or am I wrong?

 

[maniacmartin]

Where has the wording changed to "may be viewed"? My ticket doesn't have that wording, nor does SWT's charter.

I've just looked at the back of a different ticket collected from a CLJ TVM this week though, and note that worringly, its reverse just says "Information also available from staffed stations". However, I don't think that can override whats written on my ticket, nor their Passenger Charter.

 

[wibble]

Do 'proper' printed copies (rather than computer printout) of the current conditions actually exist ?

No - these stopped several years ago.


SWT have sent a brief to staff this afternoon reminding staff that they must print a copy of the NRCoC if a customer requests one, if they are able to do so.

 

[maniacmartin]

SWT have sent a brief to staff this afternoon reminding staff that they must print a copy of the NRCoC if a customer requests one, if they are able to do so.

Perhaps me putting them on the spot on Twitter prompted them to do that.

 

[district]

No - these stopped several years ago.

Not true. The last edition of the NRCoC was made into a booklet, which I have a couple of copies of.

 

[sheff1]

Just a thought (hypothetical) but if they were available to view, but at a charge for a physical copy, would that be acceptable, does anybody think?

Possibly, but as the NRCoC form part of the Terms & Conditions under which tickets are sold and purchased you most definitely should be able to view them at any ticket office even if only electronically. A problem in itself, of course, when at many stations all the devices which would provide electronic access are located in areas not accessible to the public !

It is not that long ago that copies of the NRCoC were regularly displayed in leaflet racks at stations. Their removal is most unhelpful when, as others have said, some staff will not accept a home printed versions as valid.

 

[maniacmartin]

https://twitter.com/maniacmartin/status/289387266944684033

 

[Flamingo]

Fair enough, especially as staff do not get issued them either (at least we don't!).

 

[maniacmartin]

Of course if the station just print it out and don't stamp it with a station stamp then I'm no better off, as staff can still claim its a home printed version that I could have cooked up myself anyway.

 

[All Line Rover]

Of course if the station just print it out and don't stamp it with a station stamp then I'm no better off, as staff can still claim its a home printed version that I could have cooked up myself anyway.

I'm bemused that staff would make such a claim. It's never happened to me. If someone claimed my printout of the NRCoC, which was printed using a laser printer on high quality paper, was a fake, I'd ask them to show me their own copy of the NRCoC and point me to the supposed differences!

 

[AndyLandy]

I'm bemused that staff would make such a claim. It's never happened to me. If someone claimed my printout of the NRCoC, which was printed using a laser printer on high quality paper, was a fake, I'd ask them to show me their own copy of the NRCoC and point me to the supposed differences!

In the case of a dispute, they should be able to look up the specifics using their own access to the NRCoC. Assuming you are on the level, what they find will be the same as in your printout. They have no need to trust the validity of what you present if they can verify the document themselves.

 

[maniacmartin]

In the case of a dispute, they should be able to look up the specifics using their own access to the NRCoC. Assuming you are on the level, what they find will be the same as in your printout. They have no need to trust the validity of what you present if they can verify the document themselves.

What happens often on London Overground is that they claim the NRCoC doesn't exist or doesn't apply to them, so they cannot look it up. Whereas if I had my own copy, I could go straight to Appendix D.

 

[Zoidberg]

What happens often on London Overground is that they claim the NRCoC doesn't exist or doesn't apply to them, so they cannot look it up. Whereas if I had my own copy, I could go straight to Appendix D.

Do you mean Appendix C ? The "From May 2012" version (I think it's the current version) doesn't have an Appendix D.

Appendix C is "LIST OF TRAIN COMPANIES TO WHICH THESE CONDITIONS APPLY"