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SWT Train Fire

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bengley

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Nah, I'm not stupid. The problem is, if people are sitting on a train for a prolonged time, people get angry and might start becoming violent (see recent eurostar failures).

I admit, yes it is dangerous to get off a train, but I would always get off at the side where there is no parallel line, and if it was in the middle of a quad-track layout, I most probably wouldn't try getting off.
 
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GB

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Its one thing to get off the train when there is a genuine and real risk to life (such as in the links SWT Driver posted), but to get off the train when there is no or little immediate danger becuase you are late, angry, inconvenienced or what ever is idiotic and selfish in the extreme...and pretty much sums up the majority of the general travelling public to a T:roll:
 

Capybara

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Back in the 80s, I was on an HST into London. It was already running quite late but when we got past Reading there was a major signal failure. A shame they couldn't tell us before we left Reading really but there you are. So we were being moved one signal at a time under the signaller's instructions and taking ages to get anywhere. We got to a point between Twyford and Maidenhead where we were about two hours late and people's patience just went and they opened the doors (no central locking then, and no mobile 'phones of course) and took off across the fields. Within five minutes things were sorted out and we sped into Paddington. I was too late for what I was going for but I often wonder what happened to the tens of people who abandoned the train in the middle of nowhere.
 

SWT Driver

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Two 455's at Guildford today..

I must admit this snow is starting to really **** me off, I want to get back to the normal weather; Namely wet, windy, something that keeps kids INDOORS!
 

Daniel

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Spoke to the SWT controllers earlier, they mentioned 3 trains.. first one was at West Byfleet which is why it was announced as such!
 

TW7

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As far as i know, the following trains have caught on fire since the start of the month:

06/01 - 1W44 WOKING JN
06/01 - 2P69 HASLEMERE
06/01 - 1A26 BROOKWOOD
07/01 - 1Z26 WOKING
07/01 - 5B17 BASINGSTOKE
07/01 - 1T22 BERRYLANDS
08/01 - 5Y96 CLAPHAM JUNCTION
13/01 - 2G03 CLAYGATE
 

SWT Driver

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The 0458 from Guildford was one this morning, it got to London Road before the height limiting beam (Shoebeam for us oldies.) caught alight. It returned bang road to Guildford (Main). I know that spoke to the driver this morning.
 

TW7

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The ice forms a layer on top of the 3rd rail, when the pickup shoe tries to draw current it sparks and arcs like nobody's business.

That said, the 450's seem to be alot more prone to catching fire. 458's just seem to fail outright rather than catching fire lol
 

jon0844

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Arcing is a problem for everything, but I'd have thought you'd design a train not to catch fire as a result!
 

TW7

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Unfortunately, the Desiro's just are not able to cope with the temperature. They either loose the line light or catch fire. So much for german efficiency eh? :roll:
 

johnco

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I was on the train behind, and in fact the incident started about an hour earlier than that story says - we were stuck outside Surbiton between about 9:30 and 10:30 due to a 'fire on a train near Berrylands'. The line was then re-opened for a short while, during which time we stopped at Surbiton, and then just on the other side of Surbiton we stopped again, and the guard informed us that the fire had re-ignited and the fire brigade had been called.

We then sat there for about another hour and a half, most of which with no heating, before moving on at about 12:00.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh yes, another story here: http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/wimbledonnews/4839081.BREAKING_NEWS__Eye_witnesses_accounts_of_train_on_fire_at_Berrylands_station/

Well on 7 January I boarded at Esher at 09.55, after checking and being told there was a 3 minute delay.We halted after about 200 yds, and stayed there for nearly three hours without toilet or refreshment facilities, and with no heating for most of the time. Our guard was abandoned by SWT, and apart from several messages about the delay being due to a train breakdown at WIMBLEDON, we never received any info about the possible length of the delay. About an hour later we were told that the breakdown at WIMBLEDON had been towed away, and we would proceed. When the train did not move for about half an hour we were then told that another train had caught fire at Berrylands, and the fire brigade had been called. We eventually rolled into Surbiton at about 12.40. I was livid to find out later that SWT now claimed that the Berrylands fire had broken out about 09.15, before my train had even started its journey at Woking, and there was no further reference to the WIMBLEDON breakdown. No-one on my train that I spoke to had received any warning of any delays. This appears to be monumental incompetence by SWT in its information systems, and management, which can't be excused by weather conditions. Has anyone alse any idea what SWT were covering up and why? Thousands of passengers were needlessly inconvenienced, including some who had spent all day the previous day at Heathrow sitting on aircraft that went nowhere. Maybe SWT should be researching the risk of passengers developing DVT on their trains?
 
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fgwrich

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Obviously not serious fires? How so many?


Alot...SWTDriver, Do you want to reveal how many 450s have 'flammed' over the past few weeks or i ?

And the 450/5 is now going on a winter holiday to scotland-thanks to said fire which has pretty much gutted the wiring under the floor...

Isnt it odd how the Desiro Family is built by Siemens in germany, a country used to winter snow, operates over varients of the Desiros in other cold (and hot) countries such as Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Russia, Switzerland, The USA, Greece and of course Germany to name a few, yet when it comes to the uk, the countries most over engineerd train just loses it in a series of fires and shoe dropping events...

Albiet, we are the only country to operate dc desiors of course...

As you said ralph...must be the efficient German snow vs the Anti Eurostar English mess we call snow... ;)
 

SWT Driver

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Electrics not that often, when they go up it's usually down to bad weather a motor seizing, brakes getting too hot or in AC transformers (rare).

Diesels not often, but slightly more than an Electric as you have a hot diesel engine & fuel & oil at high pressures, so if one of those pipes happen to burst then Boom or loads of acrid smoke!
 

A0wen

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Alot...SWTDriver, Do you want to reveal how many 450s have 'flammed' over the past few weeks or i ?

And the 450/5 is now going on a winter holiday to scotland-thanks to said fire which has pretty much gutted the wiring under the floor...

Isnt it odd how the Desiro Family is built by Siemens in germany, a country used to winter snow, operates over varients of the Desiros in other cold (and hot) countries such as Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Russia, Switzerland, The USA, Greece and of course Germany to name a few, yet when it comes to the uk, the countries most over engineerd train just loses it in a series of fires and shoe dropping events...

Albiet, we are the only country to operate dc desiors of course...

As you said ralph...must be the efficient German snow vs the Anti Eurostar English mess we call snow... ;)

I think you actually identified the reason for the problems - the 3rd rail system is more prone to icy conditions than the OHL. I'm sure somebody will correct me, but I can't think of any other country which uses the 3rd rail as extensively as the UK on 'main lines'. I'm pretty sure it's only used in Europe on 'metro' type services in and around major cities.
 

johnco

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People who decide to get off a train and walk up the tracks are idiots because they are putting themselves in danger, along with anybody else that decides to follows them, it would be interesting if one of these idiots lets themselves off the train and a child followed them and was electrocuted, who would be at fault.
When the problem was sorted there were further delays when the power had to be turned off again to remove these idiots causing further delays to sensible people who can wait patiently.

As for your dying relative line again :roll:, IF there was anyone on the train with a dying relative, did they tell the train crew this or is this your normal headline grabbing what could have, might have headline! Try sticking to FACTS or do you want to be a tabloid "journalist" :lol:

Forcing doors open and abandoning a train to walk to the nearest station can't be defended. Sometimes however it is understandable, particularly where the incredible incompetence of the train operating company has driven passengers to desperation. Having boarded a train more than half an AFTER the time SWT has given for the start of the Berrylands train fire, no prior warning was given by SWT of the substantial delay which must ensue.
As the train did not start from Woking until twenty minutes AFTER the fire started, everyone on the train should have been forewarned. We, and our guard, were totally abandoned by SWT, who gave no information at any time about the possible length of the delay. So several thousand passengers on a large number of trains were trapped needlessly in a situation from which there
was no escape, many desperately trying to catch ongoing flights or train connections, and others with pressing work commitments. While many had mobile phones, we were all denied any information to pass on to contacts, or replan our journeys.Will any rail experts tell me seriously that the operating company couldn't say whether we might be trapped there for 5 minutes or five hours???? Well many forced the doors (although I did not), in sheer desperation, and SWT didn't even broadcast any warnings whilst this was going on!!! Whilst this was reprehensible, so was the incompetence of SWT which provoked it. And the current was switched on long before we moved into Surbiton, so it didn't add to the delay. My four minute journey took nearly three hours, due to SWT witholding information!.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
People who decide to get off a train and walk up the tracks are idiots because they are putting themselves in danger, along with anybody else that decides to follows them, it would be interesting if one of these idiots lets themselves off the train and a child followed them and was electrocuted, who would be at fault.
When the problem was sorted there were further delays when the power had to be turned off again to remove these idiots causing further delays to sensible people who can wait patiently.

As for your dying relative line again :roll:, IF there was anyone on the train with a dying relative, did they tell the train crew this or is this your normal headline grabbing what could have, might have headline! Try sticking to FACTS or do you want to be a tabloid "journalist" :lol:

Forcing doors open and abandoning a train to walk to the nearest station can't be defended. Sometimes however it is understandable, particularly where the incredible incompetence of the train operating company has driven passengers to desperation. Having boarded a train more than half an AFTER the time SWT has given for the start of the Berrylands train fire, no prior warning was given by SWT of the substantial delay which must ensue.
As the train did not start from Woking until twenty minutes AFTER the fire started, everyone on the train should have been forewarned. We, and our guard, were totally abandoned by SWT, who gave no information at any time about the possible length of the delay. So several thousand passengers on a large number of trains were trapped needlessly in a situation from which there
was no escape, many desperately trying to catch ongoing flights or train connections, and others with pressing work commitments. While many had mobile phones, we were all denied any information to pass on to contacts, or replan our journeys.Will any rail experts tell me seriously that the operating company couldn't say whether we might be trapped there for 5 minutes or five hours???? Well many forced the doors (although I did not), in sheer desperation, and SWT didn't even broadcast any warnings whilst this was going on!!! Whilst this was reprehensible, so was the incompetence of SWT which provoked it. And the current was switched on long before we moved into Surbiton, so it didn't add to the delay. My four minute journey took nearly three hours, due to SWT witholding information!.
 

royaloak

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Okay we get it, no need to post twice :roll:, of course "control" knew straight away what was happening and how long things were going to take because they have a crystal ball up there don't they!
What started as a straight forward "train fire" escalated and took a lot longer to sort because of this, normally a problem like this can be sorted reasonably quickly but once the fire brigade are on site it takes hours and closes ALL lines in the area, THAT is when control knew it had gone base over apex and not before.
Of course if you can do better get a job in control and show them how it is done WITHOUT the benefit of hindsight!

Normally a "train fire" isn't a fire at all just line filters melting which makes lots of smoke but not a major problem, unless you work for Siemens that is.
Had a passenger inform me the train was on fire after we had followed a steam train through a tunnel :lol:.
 

TW7

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Forcing doors open and abandoning a train to walk to the nearest station can't be defended - full stop.

People need to take more accountability for their actions. Just for the record, the people who exited the trains actually delayed the traction current being recharged (by quite a considerable amount of time)
 

johnco

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Forcing doors open and abandoning a train to walk to the nearest station can't be defended - full stop.

People need to take more accountability for their actions. Just for the record, the people who exited the trains actually delayed the traction current being recharged (by quite a considerable amount of time)

As I said, I fully agree that it is indefensible. But while we are talking about accountability, what about the incredible incompetence of SWT in packing more and more passengers into the queue of backed up trains, without any prior warning, or any information once they were trapped. This is what forced passengers to act in sheer desperation. Does anyone else think that the fare paying passengers merit some consideration, and that way in which SWT mismanaged their duty of keeping passengers informed ought also to be accountable?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Very strong candidate for the most crass,idiotic and downright selfish moronic comment I've ever seen on here.
When things go wrong,leave it to the professionals - it's no help when people start whining on about "I have somewhere important to be/My mothers dying/My wife's about to give birth" - IT DOESN'T SPEED THINGS UP !!
I know it's frustrating but that's the way it is.I've been involved in many of these incidents and when the public decide to take things in hand,chaos ensues.Period.

Looking through the posts here there is obviously a major gap in understanding and a serious attitude problem by some railway professionals. Most passengers accept the technical problems have to be properly dealt with, and may be complicated. As passengers, however, we have the right to be kept as fully informed as possible about any delays and their consequences. We pay fares, and therefore rail employees wages, and we have some rights to be kept properly informed, despite the contemptuous views expressed by some rail managers. We are not cattle, although some rail employees seem to feel otherwise!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Its one thing to get off the train when there is a genuine and real risk to life (such as in the links SWT Driver posted), but to get off the train when there is no or little immediate danger becuase you are late, angry, inconvenienced or what ever is idiotic and selfish in the extreme...and pretty much sums up the majority of the general travelling public to a T:roll:

You have totally missed the point!! Only the most stupid person would question the expertise of the professional on technical rail issues. As far as many of us are concerned, the issue is about being locked up and denied any information, hour on hour, and being denied the opportunity to mitigate the damage to our lives! I was on a train stuck in the Berrylands fire for nearly three hours and we and our guard were totally abandoned by SWT who gave no information. I and most of the other passengers wouldn't even have boarded the train if SWT information systems were on the ball! Has any of the professionals, managers, drivers etc any comments about our right to know, as our exorbitant fares are paying these people's wages? Offensive language doesn't help to solve anything!! Both before and during the dangerous and senseless evacuation of my train by some passengers, whilst some of us tried to persuade others not to *jump ship* no warnings were broadcast on the train, so we were trying to do SWTs job for them. Any comments?
 

TW7

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Johnco, your point is not being disputed by myself sir. Obviously, keeping ALL passengers informed should be a key goal. In reality, the nature of that particular train fire (combined with the extreme weather across the area) caused the system to go into meltdown.

Its also worth noting, that when the mainline is disrupted like it was. Trains are usually diverted via Chertsey. However the first proving train failed at Chertsey due to ice on the Conrail, so diverting trains was not an option.

Hope this has not dented your confidence in using the train, as it was an extreme set of circumstances.
 

johnco

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Okay we get it, no need to post twice :roll:, of course "control" knew straight away what was happening and how long things were going to take because they have a crystal ball up there don't they!
What started as a straight forward "train fire" escalated and took a lot longer to sort because of this, normally a problem like this can be sorted reasonably quickly but once the fire brigade are on site it takes hours and closes ALL lines in the area, THAT is when control knew it had gone base over apex and not before.
Of course if you can do better get a job in control and show them how it is done WITHOUT the benefit of hindsight!

Normally a "train fire" isn't a fire at all just line filters melting which makes lots of smoke but not a major problem, unless you work for Siemens that is.
Had a passenger inform me the train was on fire after we had followed a steam train through a tunnel :lol:.

Hey, go easy! The only reason why it was posted twice was that the website told me (incorrectly) that I was not logged in when I clicked on "Submit" the first time. Without knowing what those in "control" actually did to ensure that passengers were warned promptly that there was going to be a significant delay, I couldn't comment on their contribution. Are you seriously trying to tell me that with trains backed up all the way from Wimbledon to Esher (and probably beyond) including eleven trains between us and the train on fire at Berrylands, no-one in SWT had the faintest idea that there was a significant delay let alone the minimum amount of time (five minutes or five hours?) it might take to clear??? I have commuted in this region for about 50 years, and the most consistently appalling feature for passengers is the abject failure of SWT (despite its computers, mobile phones, radios and public address systems) to provide any useful information about delays and routings. Even British Rail, whatever its alleged failings, never treated passengers with so much contempt, and so little consideration, and they didn't have all this sophisticated technology!!! SWT keep apologising with weasel words by raising irrelevant issues (such as adverse weather, train breakdowns etc) to try to excuse their abject failures in communication, but don't appear to have the motivation or ability to improve their performance!
 
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royaloak

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One of the main problems now is that when the laid out plans don't work nobody dare make a decision for fear of reprisals from them upstairs. The circumstances after Berrylands were exceptional in the extreme especially when the "get out of jail card" of Chertsey got mullered, although that doesn't excuse the lack of information given to passengers, although with the power off how long do the batteries last and keep the PA serviceable?
 

GodAtum

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Forcing doors open and abandoning a train to walk to the nearest station can't be defended - full stop.

People need to take more accountability for their actions. Just for the record, the people who exited the trains actually delayed the traction current being recharged (by quite a considerable amount of time)

But if there is a serious train crash like Potters Bar you would not want to stay on the train?
 
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