Taking bikes aboard Great Northern trains

[hypercolius]

Recently I came to be aware of a rather idiotic rule which Great Northern and Thameslink advertise on their website. They claim that it is banned to carry non-folding bikes on trains during peak times. This is despite multiple places on their trains where, if bikes are put, they will occupy the absolute minimum amount of space. Even more unacceptable is their suggestion to have 2 bikes, one at each end of the journey, to avoid problems.
I carry my bike with me at peak times on their trains irrespective of this (every time I tried, platform staff just couldn't care less, and the same applied to Great Northern drivers and conductors), and the worst that happened was some old men who clearly couldn't mind their own business got offended by it (and got ignored).
Do any other operators threaten similar 'rules'? In my personal experience, Greater Anglia, Crosscountry, Avanti West Coast, LNER and London Northwestern do not have 'rules' like this at all and exist rather comfortably (some of them on far busier routes that Great Northern serves). Does Northern have anything similar?

 

[punxsutawny]

As somebody who commutes regularly on Thameslink trains which are standing room only well before London, I think this rule is more than reasonable; there is no room to park a bike on these trains when they are full and passengers are being packed in like sardines already!

 

[Hadders]

Bikes on Great Northern and Thameslink services at peak times would be a nightmare, they have quite rightly been banned for years.

It’s hard enough finding enough space for passengers at peak times let alone bikes as well.

 

[Twotwo]

I don't generally say anything unless the train is really busy and its an inconvenience for other passengers. Then I'll make an announcement that this train won't be going anywhere until the bike comes off. I think that's fair.

 

[miklcct]

Recently I came to be aware of a rather idiotic rule which Great Northern and Thameslink advertise on their website. They claim that it is banned to carry non-folding bikes on trains during peak times. This is despite multiple places on their trains where, if bikes are put, they will occupy the absolute minimum amount of space. Even more unacceptable is their suggestion to have 2 bikes, one at each end of the journey, to avoid problems.
I carry my bike with me at peak times on their trains irrespective of this (every time I tried, platform staff just couldn't care less, and the same applied to Great Northern drivers and conductors), and the worst that happened was some old men who clearly couldn't mind their own business got offended by it (and got ignored).
Do any other operators threaten similar 'rules'? In my personal experience, Greater Anglia, Crosscountry, Avanti West Coast, LNER and London Northwestern do not have 'rules' like this at all and exist rather comfortably (some of them on far busier routes that Great Northern serves). Does Northern have anything similar?

Unfortunately this rule also exists on other commuter operators like Greater Anglia or London Northwestern, at least on paper, which makes using my own bike for part of the commute totally impossible if working in Central London and making triangular journeys (my typical journeys are from my home to office on tube, Farringdon to Kentish Town on Thameslink to go to Gospel Oak, and Gospel Oak back home off-peak - I used to hire a bike from Kentish Town to ride to Gospel Oak but the bike hire company has introduced a new fee which tripled the cost, and I no longer use it as a result as it isn't worthwhile to pay a fortune for that).

Travelling to/from Cambridge, London Liverpool Street or Stratford?​

Full-size bikes are not allowed on trains during these busy periods:

Cambridge​

• Arrivals between 07.45 - 08.45 Monday to Friday (not including bank holidays).

London Liverpool Street​

• Arrivals between 07.45-09.45 (Monday-Friday)
• Trains leaving between 16.30-18.30 (Monday-Friday)

Except for Intercity services, as long as you have a cycle reservation.

Stratford​

• Arriving between 07.45-09.45 (Monday-Friday)
• Trains leaving between 16.30-18.30 (Monday-Friday)

Except for Intercity services, as long as you have a cycle reservation.

Full-size bikes cannot be taken on any train arriving in London Euston between 07:00 and 09:59 or departing from London Euston between 16:00 and 18:59 from Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays).

 

[pelli]

Do any other operators threaten similar 'rules'? In my personal experience, Greater Anglia, Crosscountry, Avanti West Coast, LNER and London Northwestern do not have 'rules' like this at all and exist rather comfortably (some of them on far busier routes that Great Northern serves). Does Northern have anything similar?

Typing "[Train Operating Company] bikes" into my favourite search engine and clicking the top result yielded the following, which for the vast majority of operators can be summarised as non-folding bikes not being allowed at peak times in the peak direction on commuter services for London (and Cambridge, and partly Oxford and Birmingham), while long-distance services have a limited number of bike spaces per train:

Great Northern: "To make sure there is space for all our passengers at times when our trains are busiest, we don’t allow non-folding bikes: [...] • on trains south of Stevenage or Hertford North timed to arrive in London between 07:00 and 09:30 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays • on trains timed to leave London between 16:00 and 19:00 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays • on trains that are timed to arrive at Cambridge station between 07:45 and 08:45 Monday to Friday (except on public holidays) from King's Lynn, Watlington, Downham Market, Littleport, Ely, Waterbeach or Cambridge North"

Greater Anglia: "Travelling to/from Stratford, Liverpool Street or Cambridge station? Full-size bikes are not allowed during these busy periods. [...] • Cambridge: Arrivals between 07.45 - 08.45 Monday to Friday (not including bank holidays). • London Liverpool Street: Arrivals between 07.45-09.45 (Monday-Friday), Trains leaving between 16.30-18.30 (Monday-Friday), Except for Intercity services, as long as you have a cycle reservation. • Stratford: Arriving between 07.45-09.45 (Monday-Friday), Trains leaving between 16.30-18.30 (Monday-Friday), Except for Intercity services, as long as you have a cycle reservation."

CrossCountry: "Space for bikes on trains is limited so, to make your journey easier, make a reservation for your bike in advance. [...] On most of our trains we have two reservable bike spaces and one further space for unreserved bikes. [...] Bikes must be carried in the designated area of the train"

Avanti West Coast: "bike reservations are mandatory but free of charge. [...] Each Voyager and Pendolino can carry up to 4 bikes."

LNER: "To make sure everyone can travel safely, you must reserve a space for your bike before you board our trains. [...] The number of bike spaces on each train is limited. [...] 5-coach Azuma: Two spaces in Coach K or D, 9-coach Azuma: Four spaces in Coach K, 10-coach Azuma: Two spaces in Coach K and two spaces in Coach D"

London Northwestern Railway: "Full-size bikes cannot be taken on any train arriving in London Euston between 07:00 and 09:59 or departing from London Euston between 16:00 and 18:59 from Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays)."

Northern Railway: "At present, our cycle spaces operate on a first-come, first-served basis, so there is no need to book in advance. Currently, our trains can only carry a maximum of two bikes per train"

Some more London-centric operators:

c2c: "Cycles are not permitted on weekday services arriving in London Fenchurch Street between 07:14 and 09:30, or leaving London Fenchurch Street between 16:30 and 18:35"

Chiltern: "On Mondays to Fridays you can also use most of our trains. The only exceptions are our busiest peak hour services. [...] bikes are not allowed at any point during the journey on any train: • Arriving London Marylebone, Oxford or Birmingham Moor Street from 0745 to 1000. • Leaving London Marylebone, Oxford or Birmingham Moor Street from 1630 to 1930"

East Midlands Railway: "Our EMR Connect trains from Corby to London do not have dedicated cycle storage spaces. Full-size bikes are not permitted on EMR Connect trains arriving into London St Pancras International before 10:00 or departing between 16:00 and 19:00 on weekdays. "

Gatwick Express: "Peak time services - when non-folding bikes can't be carried - are those trains: • Due to arrive at London Victoria between 07:00 and 10:00 Monday to Friday • Due to leave London Victoria between 16:00 and 19:00 Monday to Friday"

Great Western Railway: "Unreserved bikes cannot be carried on trains: • arriving at London Paddington between 07:30 and 09:30 • departing London Paddington between 16:00 and 19:00."

Heatrow Express (PDF): "As our services are very busy on weekday mornings and evenings we are unable to carry bicycles on trains leaving Heathrow Central between 0630 and 1000 or trains leaving London Paddington between 1630 and 1900"

Southeastern: "We cannot accommodate regular non-folding bikes on our trains anywhere between London and Gillingham, Otford, and Tonbridge during our busiest times. That is trains arriving in London, Monday to Friday between 07:00 and 09:59, and leaving London between 16:00 and 18:59."

Southern: " we can’t let you bring regular bikes along during peak hours. [...] • On trains due to arrive in London, Brighton or Kensington Olympia between 7:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. • On trains departing London, Brighton or Kensington Olympia between 4:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. • We do make exceptions if your journey is entirely within a less crowded part of our network."

South Western: "You cannot take bikes on or off trains that are due to arrive at London Waterloo between 07:15 and 10:00 or trains which leave London Waterloo between 16:45 and 19:00. Stations between Clapham Junction, Feltham/Strawberry Hill and on the Hounslow loop, you cannot take bikes on or off trains which are due to leave Clapham Junction between 07:45 and 09:00."

Thameslink: "To make sure there is space for all our passengers at times when our trains are busiest, we don’t allow non-folding bikes: [...] • On trains travelling towards London that are timed to arrive at or pass through any central London station between 07:00 and 10:00 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays • On trains travelling away from London that are timed to depart from or pass through any central London station between 16:00 and 19:00 Monday to Friday, except on public holidays"

 

[rocrat]

I find all of these rules ridiculous, hence why I bought a folding bike... what makes me laugh is how my bike unfolded takes up essentially 0 space, but *folded* will take up an entire luggage rack like a medium suitcase...

The best bit is that they HAVE to carry folding bikes *anywhere* on the network, and failure to do so = delay repay and a strongly worded complaint...

Commuters saying bikes shouldn't be allowed on trains make me laugh, because many wouldn't say the same about a backpack or a small-medium suitcase... it's just anti-cyclist rhetoric.

 

[LowLevel]

I find all of these rules ridiculous, hence why I bought a folding bike... what makes me laugh is how my bike unfolded takes up essentially 0 space, but *folded* will take up an entire luggage rack like a medium suitcase...

The best bit is that they HAVE to carry folding bikes *anywhere* on the network, and failure to do so = delay repay and a strongly worded complaint...

Commuters saying bikes shouldn't be allowed on trains make me laugh, because many wouldn't say the same about a backpack or a small-medium suitcase... it's just anti-cyclist rhetoric.

They don't *have* to carry anything. Like anything else it's subject to space being available. No charge is made for the carriage of bicycles folding or not and no guarantee is made that they will be carried. Even if a reservation is held it doesn't guarantee passage, it only provides for a level of compensation to be paid if it isn't fulfilled.

Provided there's space available for it to be carried safely it's fine, and rightly so, but there's no *must* about anything of the sort.

Clowns dumping their bikes in places people can't easily get past them should be ejected with extreme prejudice.

 

[Magdalia]

Much of what I'd say here has been said already. Non-folding cycles have been banned on various trains to/from Cambridge for a very long time.

But these policies do get reviewed. For a long time the line into Cambridge from Hitchin only had a 2tph stopping service with 4 car trains, and non-folding cycles were banned at peak times. Now there are 4tph of 8/12 car trains and the ban on non-folding cycles has gone.

If the OP wishes to bring a non-folding cycle into Cambridge by train I suggest that they move to Royston!

Commuters saying bikes shouldn't be allowed on trains make me laugh, because many wouldn't say the same about a backpack or a small-medium suitcase... it's just anti-cyclist rhetoric.

The significant difference here is the sharp pointy bits on non-folding cycles, especially pedals and handlebars.

 

[43096]

Clowns dumping their bikes in places people can't easily get past them should be ejected with extreme prejudice.

I have seen people with bikes told to leave SWR services in the evening peak, quite rightly too due to the lack of space.

 

[Hadders]

If bikes were allowed on peak time trains just imagine how many commuters would bring them. You wouldn't be talking about 1 or 2 bikes. There simply would not be room for them all.

 

[Magdalia]

If bikes were allowed on peak time trains just imagine how many commuters would bring them. You wouldn't be talking about 1 or 2 bikes. There simply would not be room for them all.

I can provide an example here. Sometimes I start my journey on the 0923 Cambridge to Brighton, which is formed from a train arriving at about 0910. If I get to the platform before the train I amuse myself by counting the alighting passengers, including how many have cycles. Last time it was about 100 passengers and 10 cycles. This is not particularly busy for a morning Cambridge arrival as it follows closely behind the 0812 Kings Cross to Ely, which picks up lots of the Royston passengers wanting a Cambridge arrival just after 0900.

Now imagine a train coming in from Ely with 500 passengers and 50 cycles!

 

[hypercolius]

As somebody who commutes regularly on Thameslink trains which are standing room only well before London, I think this rule is more than reasonable; there is no room to park a bike on these trains when they are full and passengers are being packed in like sardines already!

I disagree. I've been on trains rammed full of passengers numerous times, and my bike in the wheelchair carriage underneath the window opposite the toilet occuped 'so much space' that passengers were happily standing in front of it with room for everyone.

Much of what I'd say here has been said already. Non-folding cycles have been banned on various trains to/from Cambridge for a very long time.

But these policies do get reviewed. For a long time the line into Cambridge from Hitchin only had a 2tph stopping service with 4 car trains, and non-folding cycles were banned at peak times. Now there are 4tph of 8/12 car trains and the ban on non-folding cycles has gone.

If the OP wishes to bring a non-folding cycle into Cambridge by train I suggest that they move to Royston!



The significant difference here is the sharp pointy bits on non-folding cycles, especially pedals and handlebars.

Actually if a cyclist wishes to bring a bike they should do so irrespective of the rules. As someone correctly pointed out, bikes take up less space than a person with a 80L bag on their back, which is packed to the brim and standing in the aisle. 'Sharp pointy bits'- the blunt pedal, the blunt, curved handlebars?

 

[Northerngirl]

Should we also ban having a suitcase or shopping bags? I've never got this country railways hate for cycling, if the capacity is such an issue then they need more trains, but it just seems like the usual attempts to get more people to drive instead

 

[Hadders]

I disagree. I've been on trains rammed full of passengers numerous times, and my bike in the wheelchair carriage underneath the window opposite the toilet occuped 'so much space' that passengers were happily standing in front of it with room for everyone.

One or 2 bikes would be ok but what happens when there are 50 onboard.

This would likely be the case - you’ve only got to look at how many London commuters leave bikes at London Terminal stations so they can cycle to their workplaces to see the potential scale of the problem.

Should we also ban having a suitcase or shopping bags? I've never got this country railways hate for cycling, if the capacity is such an issue then they need more trains, but it just seems like the usual attempts to get more people to drive instead

Commuters on peak time trains into London don’t carry large suitcases or shopping bags. A small rucksack is normal, which isn’t worn on the back when on train.

 

[Magdalia]

'Sharp pointy bits'- the blunt pedal, the blunt, curved handlebars?

I am a cyclist, I do know what cycles are like. Most handlebars are more straight than curved, and also have brake levers. Pedals stick out at ankle height, which make them difficult to see in crowded trains, and can be very painful if hit.

There is also exposed chains and the risk of passengers getting oil on their clothes.

 

[punxsutawny]

I disagree. I've been on trains rammed full of passengers numerous times, and my bike in the wheelchair carriage underneath the window opposite the toilet occuped 'so much space' that passengers were happily standing in front of it with room for everyone.

There are many cyclists who are not as considerate as you with where they place their cycles. It's a semi-regular occurrence that somebody will board a train I am travelling on and place their bike across the doors/within the vestibule, blocking a significant amount of space, including when the train is busy.

Additionally, as others have pointed out, allowing cycles during peak times will simply lead to an unreasonable amount of cycles to try and force into a packed commuter train. I would support exploring new solutions to allow cycles to travel during peak hours, but the existing arrangement isn't reasonable whatsoever.

 

[Meole]

Charging bikes as an additional passenger would surely ease the demand ? Each bike in effect reduces passenger space availability.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are many cyclists who are not as considerate as you with where they place their cycles. It's a semi-regular occurrence that somebody will board a train I am travelling on and place their bike across the doors/within the vestibule, blocking a significant amount of space, including when the train is busy.

Usually it's nothing about consideration (people do like creating personas for cyclists based on the visible bad ones) but rather that they don't know where the space is. A little pictogram by the door doesn't help, unfortunately, when one only has seconds to find it or be left behind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Charging bikes as an additional passenger would surely ease the demand ? Each bike in effect reduces passenger space availability.

As bicycles are only supposed to be carried when trains aren't full, this isn't necessary, they actually attract extra custom at times when there's space for it.

 

[Falcon1200]

A little pictogram by the door doesn't help, unfortunately, when one only has seconds to find it or be left behind.

A very valid point, especially when, in my case for example, at an intermediate station I board a 4-car train on which the cycle space is at one end, but there is no way of knowing which end until the train arrives! However Scotrail have recently started painted green bands above the cycle space, and blue for the wheelchair one, which are very helpful.