TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[mayneway]

If it’s the same as TfL tenders, then generally the operators usually have a higher spares percentage due to the penalties involved of lost mileage.

Can’t see how or why TFGM would specify the number of spare vehicles at each depot, as has been said I’d suggest it may have been under resourced by the operator.

I was told the total depot VA was down to TFGM, including the number of spares. Either way it’s crazy that the number of spares would be so low compared to commercial depots roughly the same size.

 

[Class 466]

This just sounds Stagecoach have under-bid and are now finding they can't operate the service with the number of vehicles they priced in. In which case, tough, why should the taxpayer have to pay for their mistake. Stagecoach can either pay for more buses or they can pay the fines for lost mileage (though preferably the fines should be steep enough to discourage that option).

Stagecoach have ordered more new buses than any other franchise winner in Manchester so far. Diamond second, followed by Go North West who just diverted an order from elsewhere and brought up a load of ex London B9TLs & Enviro 400s.

Stagecoach’s vehicles are late being delivered following strike action at ADL and then the issues will Mellor. A further order of vehicles has been placed to replace all the Ex Go North West Volvo B9TLs later this year. So by that point all the double deckers will be no older that 17 plate.

 

[mayneway]

The impression I get is that GoAhead received an offer from TfGM for the B5s that they couldn't refuse. They've just transferred a batch of E400Hs from Oxford to Plymouth and I'd argue the B5s are more reliable

The price paid for the B5’s and also the scania’s was im told way over the odds.
The scania’s had been deemed impractical by GNW and all had been withdrawn months prior to the sale to TFGM. They were given a basic service at Scania bus and coach Rochdale and dumped onto stagecoach.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If it’s the same as TfL tenders, then generally the operators usually have a higher spares percentage due to the penalties involved of lost mileage.

Can’t see how or why TFGM would specify the number of spare vehicles at each depot, as has been said I’d suggest it may have been under resourced by the operator.

The only other consideration is whether Stagecoach are citing the condition of the vehicles inherited via the RV, or the ex Oxford vehicles, is the reason for the loss of mileage. In which case, Stagecoach may have a valid point, and why should they pick up the cost? Only those in Stagecoach senior management and TfGM will know the truth.

 

[mayneway]

Stagecoach have ordered more new buses than any other franchise winner in Manchester so far. Diamond second, followed by Go North West who just diverted an order from elsewhere and brought up a load of ex London B9TLs & Enviro 400s.

Stagecoach’s vehicles are late being delivered following strike action at ADL and then the issues will Mellor. A further order of vehicles has been placed to replace all the Ex Go North West Volvo B9TLs later this year. So by that point all the double deckers will be no older that 17 plate.

The Mellors are only here until November and will then be replaced with slightly larger vehicles. Which is bizarre as they are still not on the road.

Do we know why some of the ordered batch for tranche 2 depots are working out of other Stagecoach Manchester depots and why some are being stored at the rear of Hyde road?

The only other consideration is whether Stagecoach are citing the condition of the vehicles inherited via the RV, or the ex Oxford vehicles, is the reason for the loss of mileage. In which case, Stagecoach may have a valid point, and why should they pick up the cost? Only those in Stagecoach senior management and TfGM will know the truth.

They are certainly not happy with the state of the RV vehicles. The ex Oxford Hybrids are constantly being patched up and sent back out only to break down again, two are off the road long term with hybrid system/ engine issues. There’s at least 2 maybe 3 scania’s with major issues and well the ex Go North west batch of B5’s were on their last legs way before stagecoach inherited them so god knows what state they are in now!

 

[Leyland Bus]

The price paid for the B5’s and also the scania’s was im told way over the odds.
The scania’s had been deemed impractical by GNW and all had been withdrawn months prior to the sale to TFGM. They were given a basic service at Scania bus and coach Rochdale and dumped onto stagecoach.

I think you really ought to stop listening to the drivers echo chamber... For a start, the Scanias were short term runners to help with the 163s and to get the whole thing going upon takeover. Secondly, They were withdrawn "months before" because of the sale to TfGM, at which point they were inspected "By Stagecoach", signed off "By Stagecoach" upon works being completed on them. So it was Stagecoach that signed off on them. They have all had alot work done to them, as opposed to your fantasy "basic service" and were all MoT'd. They went to Scania to have all oils and filters changed as they quoted faster times than doing it ourselves but this didn't materialise. The same process happened with the Oxford buses and indeed have all the buses that have come into the network.

I've had to pull you before on spouting false rhetoric and think you ought to give it a rest now.

 

[darylyates17]

I think you really ought to stop listening to the drivers echo chamber... For a start, the Scanias were short term runners to help with the 163s and to get the whole thing going upon takeover. Secondly, They were withdrawn "months before" because of the sale to TfGM, at which point they were inspected "By Stagecoach", signed off "By Stagecoach" upon works being completed on them. So it was Stagecoach that signed off on them. They have all had alot work done to them, as opposed to your fantasy "basic service" and were all MoT'd. They went to Scania to have all oils and filters changed as they quoted faster times than doing it ourselves but this didn't materialise. The same process happened with the Oxford buses and indeed have all the buses that have come into the network.

I've had to pull you before on spouting false rhetoric and think you ought to give it a rest now.

I thought it was just the ex Oxford B5s that were owned by TfGM, have they acquired the all the ex GNW loans then?

 

[Leyland Bus]

I thought it was just the ex Oxford B5s that were owned by TfGM, have they acquired the all the ex GNW loans then?

The B9s definitely aren't, they are only loans. There was uncertainty regarding the Scanias largely due to the amount of work they've had. Either way, money has changed hands because of them...

 

[Mollman]

The Mellors are only here until November and will then be replaced with slightly larger vehicles. Which is bizarre as they are still not on the road.

Do we know why some of the ordered batch for tranche 2 depots are working out of other Stagecoach Manchester depots and why some are being stored at the rear of Hyde road?


They are certainly not happy with the state of the RV vehicles. The ex Oxford Hybrids are constantly being patched up and sent back out only to break down again, two are off the road long term with hybrid system/ engine issues. There’s at least 2 maybe 3 scania’s with major issues and well the ex Go North west batch of B5’s were on their last legs way before stagecoach inherited them so god knows what state they are in now!

So where are the Mellors going after November?

 

[mayneway]

So where are the Mellors going after November?

Merseyside was mentioned.

I think you really ought to stop listening to the drivers echo chamber... For a start, the Scanias were short term runners to help with the 163s and to get the whole thing going upon takeover. Secondly, They were withdrawn "months before" because of the sale to TfGM, at which point they were inspected "By Stagecoach", signed off "By Stagecoach" upon works being completed on them. So it was Stagecoach that signed off on them. They have all had alot work done to them, as opposed to your fantasy "basic service" and were all MoT'd. They went to Scania to have all oils and filters changed as they quoted faster times than doing it ourselves but this didn't materialise. The same process happened with the Oxford buses and indeed have all the buses that have come into the network.

I've had to pull you before on spouting false rhetoric and think you ought to give it a rest now.

I drove two of them from Heywood to Stakehill for their oil and filter change when I was at Go North West. They were patched up and flogged to TFGM. Wires bodged around sensors because they couldn’t be bothered to replace.

I suppose the Streetdeck that was running around on the 10 last week with no belt tensioner just cable ties attempting to keep the belt in place was a rumour as well was it?

I've had to pull you before on spouting false rhetoric and think you ought to give it a rest now.

What’s false? Did GNW sell the Scanias to TFGM or not?

 

[Geeves]

Just from my own MK1 eyeball outside of Victoria the other day virtually every bus going by on the 93, 97, 98, 100 and hell even the number 1 was one of Mayneways much hated Scania double deckers so they mustn't be blowing up and breaking down that much.

 

[M60lad]

I even had one of the Scanias all the way from Manchester-Warrington on 100 the other week and it performed quite well so they are certainly looking after them at Queens Road now.

 

[Andyh82]

I take most posts about the Bee Network with a pinch of salt as there are obviously lots of strong opinions due to the politics of it all

 

[Class 466]

Just from my own MK1 eyeball outside of Victoria the other day virtually every bus going by on the 93, 97, 98, 100 and hell even the number 1 was one of Mayneways much hated Scania double deckers so they mustn't be blowing up and breaking down that much.

They seem to work now that Go North West aren’t “looking after them” by operating them out of a yard in Heywood. Although Stagecoach are still waiting on three from Go North West that are yet to materialise.

They are now far more reliable than they ever were at GNW.

Edit: only 2 now 15397 (YT59 RYM) has entered service on the 2.

The only things proving to be rather unreliable at the moment are Optare Free buses. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them gone sooner rather than later.

 

[M60lad]

The thing with the Scanias is that Stagecoach are used to them as they had/have quite a number of similar ones in their London fleets.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Going out to Thorntons:

3401

Can now confirm that it has been repainted, I have found a Flickr photo to support this claim. The photo (not mine, also please excuse the really small fleet number, probably because of the distance of the photo being taken).

SK17 HHC

Explore cw_315's 867 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[darylyates17]

I have noticed that some of the Bee Network spec E400MMCs seem to be in use at the Stagecoach depots that are going to Metroline in tranche 3 as well as Stockport, will these replace all the loan vehicles once tranche 3 starts? I am aware another order will replace the B9TLs.

 

[Cesarcollie]

The thing with the Scanias is that Stagecoach are used to them as they had/have quite a number of similar ones in their London fleets.

Go Ahead have Scanias in several of their fleets too (albeit not London)!

 

[mbonwick]

I have noticed that some of the Bee Network spec E400MMCs seem to be in use at the Stagecoach depots that are going to Metroline in tranche 3 as well as Stockport, will these replace all the loan vehicles once tranche 3 starts? I am aware another order will replace the B9TLs.

The B9TLs are on loan until November (?) so makes sense to get as much use as possible out of them. Deploying the owned E400MMCs to other depots first allows the cascades out to other regions to start early.
The end of the year will be an interesting time to see how all the moves play out (I'm assuming Sharstons EVs will be staying with Stagecoach), especially as moves in from other areas are expected.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I’m touristing in Manchester this week and I can’t get over the number of ex-London EvoSetis that are out on the V1/V2. I had the misfortune of one of them today and it’s fair to say it wasn’t pleasant.

Does anyone know what the score is with that? Not a great advert for Bee Network having worse buses than before…

 

[Andyh82]

I’m touristing in Manchester this week and I can’t get over the number of ex-London EvoSetis that are out on the V1/V2. I had the misfortune of one of them today and it’s fair to say it wasn’t pleasant.

Does anyone know what the score is with that? Not a great advert for Bee Network having worse buses than before…

The frequency is higher than it used to be, therefore not enough of the “Vantage” buses to go around?

 

[M60lad]

Not saying this will happen but if the EVs (BYDs) at Sharston do stay with Stagecoach at the end of the year I suppose they could join the Bee Network ones at Oldham Depot, this is only a possibility though.

 

[mic]

Not saying this will happen but if the EVs (BYDs) at Sharston do stay with Stagecoach at the end of the year I suppose they could join the Bee Network ones at Oldham Depot, this is only a possibility though.

they would need more charging points if that was the case

 

[py_megapixel]

Can now confirm that it has been repainted, I have found a Flickr photo to support this claim. The photo (not mine, also please excuse the really small fleet number, probably because of the distance of the photo being taken).

SK17 HHC

Explore cw_315's 867 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Looks to have been redone inside as well

 

[Bungle965]

The only things proving to be rather unreliable at the moment are Optare Free buses. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them gone sooner rather than later.

Funny you mention that as I noticed one broken down with recovery truck this evening at Piccadilly (YJ60 KDB)

I don't recall this really being an issue when First had Queen's Road, has something changed or is it just bad luck?

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

Funny you mention that as I noticed one broken down with recovery truck this evening at Piccadilly (YJ60 KDB)

I don't recall this really being an issue when First had Queen's Road, has something changed or is it just bad luck?

I would imagine it’s something to do with the age of those vehicles now, especially considering they’re hybrids and don’t tend to last as long as conventional diesel buses.

 

[Class 466]

Funny you mention that as I noticed one broken down with recovery truck this evening at Piccadilly (YJ60 KDB)

I don't recall this really being an issue when First had Queen's Road, has something changed or is it just bad luck?

One of only 4 that actually made it into service today.

 

[M60lad]

I'm pretty sure regarding the free buses that there's at least one in full Bee Network livery at Switch Trafford Park with maybe another there as well. This is probably one reason why deckers and other vehicles are appearing on Freebus a lot recently.

 

[Class 466]

Beachball liveried Enviro 200 36780 is the first of 4 to transfer from Middleton to Queens Road. 8 17 plate Enviro 400MMCs are due from Stockport soon. 12 vehicles to replace another 12 at Queens Road.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

Beachball liveried Enviro 200 36780 is the first of 4 to transfer from Middleton to Queens Road. 8 17 plate Enviro 400MMCs are due from Stockport soon. 12 vehicles to replace another 12 at Queens Road.

36782 appears to have transferred too.