Some X43 services will be renumbered 872 north of Burnley and will run though to Grassington. There has been 1 service a day which did this with the rest of the 872s just running between Skipton and Grassington but now it will run hourly.
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Some X43 services will be renumbered 872 north of Burnley and will run though to Grassington. There has been 1 service a day which did this with the rest of the 872s just running between Skipton and Grassington but now it will run hourly.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Thanks for that clarification of my posting. Was the 872 a DalesBus service ?
Yes. It replaced the extension to the 66A Keighley - Skipton which was funded by NYCC a couple of years ago. NYCC withdrew funding and DITA procured the 872 from Burnley and Pendle. It had one journey from Burnley to Grassington with the rest from Skipton every hour except for a two hour gap at lunchtime. B&P then extended one morning journey to run from Manchester as an X43, changing its number part way. This marked the start of a Sunday service by B&P between Burnley and Pendle. They then started running an hourly 28 too. I'm asuming the extension from Manchester has been popular and all journeys will now change the number, so connections are guaranteed as it's the same bus - previously on the last return service there was a non-guaranteed connection at Burnley and 2 changes required if you returned earlier.
The 872 runs a different route to the 28 between Burnley and Skipton. The 28 journeys are not being removed entirely but are being cut back - oddly the timetable for this service is not yet available despite it starting on Sunday!
I know a bit about this route as I live on the route of the 66A. When the 872 took over the northern section it continued to accept £3.60 (now £3.80) K-Day tickets. However this has now been quietly dropped and the cheapest day ticket valid on both services is now over £7.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
There's been a lot of approvals by VOSA for bus service changes in Greater Manchester yesterday and today. Maybe a lot of the subsided services are all coming to the end of their contracts?
323235
Established Member
Yes I think it may have been mentioned in some of the minutes for the previous 2 TfGMC Bus Network meetings.
I'm not sure why but the website has gone back in time and doesn't have any 2013-14 meeting schedules.
Edit : Many of them are the usual Stagecoach Manchester summer timetables with reduced journey times during the summer holidays.
I'm not sure why but the website has gone back in time and doesn't have any 2013-14 meeting schedules.
Edit : Many of them are the usual Stagecoach Manchester summer timetables with reduced journey times during the summer holidays.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
At one time, TfGM used to produce specially printed timetables for the summer period in which these services were so affected, but I noticed this was not the case last year and just general publicity notes made.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Out of general interest, has anyone used the 113 service from Wigan to Preston recently, as I wonder what type of buses are provided by Stagecoach in Lancashire on this service ?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The July 2013 TfGM bus service updates sees quite some movement on the western side of their conurbation area. I note that someone has already set up a Cumfy Bus thread and I wonder how forum members view the various changes involving South Lancs Travel in these July 2013 changes.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
South Lancs Travel are the sister company of D&G Bus who made a number of changes to bus routes earlier this month so maybe the parent company has revised their business plan.
Have South Lancs Travel ever loaned a bus from D&G Bus or vice versa?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I wonder if the original holding trading company name of Green Triangle Buses Ltd was divested to D & G in 2011 when the amalgamation was proceeded with. The matter concerning Strawberry in early 2012 left quite a problem for certain of the newly established management/consultants, so what you say about a business plan revision may well be as a result of this managerial ill-feeling.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If they are part of the same grouping, this would appear to be a logical use of group resources should the need have arisen.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The latest monthly TfGM service update information now shows the routes that of summer timetable reduced-time services that First will be operating. I wonder why the Stagecoach information always precedes that issued by First to TfGM.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I see that Stagecoach in Wigan have applied the coup de grace to the final residual services on the 629 service from Wigan to Hindley on 2nd August.
Can someone assist me with the final date that the service 605 from Ashton-in-Makerfield to Newton le Willows last ran. Wigan Buses Llimited took over the whole service on 3rd April 2006. I would be most grateful for this information in order to update my records.
Can someone assist me with the final date that the service 605 from Ashton-in-Makerfield to Newton le Willows last ran. Wigan Buses Llimited took over the whole service on 3rd April 2006. I would be most grateful for this information in order to update my records.
Stonesourscotty
Member
629 is just a nightbus only route these days.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That is why I referred to them as the "final residual services" on that route.
323235
Established Member
Not noticed it talked about here but JPT are to reintroduce their 17 service between Manchester - Rochdale from the start of September. Rather bizarre when they have previously withdrawn it.
I can't see that a frequency of every 20 minutes as documented by TfGM will catch anything more than the occasional traveller,system one and concessionary pass holders. (Edit : Traveline is reporting a JPT every 10 minute full route frequency on the 2nd September with additional Shudehill Thomas Street - Middleton shorts running one minute before the full routes services and irregular Middleton-Rochdale shorts)
Given the combination of 17/18 services and the reduction in First Day and First week in addition to the route specific fares available, I just can't see why they are giving it another go.
They don't appear to have a facebook page anymore and no website.
I can't even find their legal identity as JP Travel and Transport Limited is a dormant company.
I can't see that a frequency of every 20 minutes as documented by TfGM will catch anything more than the occasional traveller,system one and concessionary pass holders. (Edit : Traveline is reporting a JPT every 10 minute full route frequency on the 2nd September with additional Shudehill Thomas Street - Middleton shorts running one minute before the full routes services and irregular Middleton-Rochdale shorts)
Given the combination of 17/18 services and the reduction in First Day and First week in addition to the route specific fares available, I just can't see why they are giving it another go.
They don't appear to have a facebook page anymore and no website.
I can't even find their legal identity as JP Travel and Transport Limited is a dormant company.
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I was suprised to only find the website of J P Travel of Ormskrk when I looked on Google.
Have either First or Stagecoach Manchester made a pre-emptive strike ?
I shouldn't think First will do anything new. (Stagecoach aren't relevant here). They won't be worried. They are still doing the £2.50 17/18 day ticket that they started when JPT were competing before and run a very frequent service between Manchester and Middleton (about every 3 minutes). JPT really are a bizarre outfit in recent years, chopping and changing routes. For a while they were using quite modern vehicles but then all of a sudden they were sold off. And what was the point of the 'Eurobus' branding on some of the 17 journeys?
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Recent events have seen Stagecoach in Wigan materialise on what was once a strong First area. In the north of Manchester, I can immediately think of four Stagecoach Manchester services which seem to run on the Oldham corridor....there may be others:-
74...Hollinwood to Manchester, via Woodhouses
76...Oldham to Manchester, via Limeside
77...Chadderton to Manchester, via Newton Heath
78...Oldham to Manchester, via Failsworth
If they can access the Oldham area, what stops them running in the Middleton/Rochdale area ?
They do operate in Middleton. They run routes 80 (Manchester - Central Park - Middleton) and route 112 (Jointly run with JPT, Manchester - Harpurhey - Middleton).
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That gives even more raison d'etre for Stagecoach Manchester to appear on the 17 route.
Stagecoach bought First's operations in Wigan so a big presence there is no surprise!
Stagecoach did buy Bluebird of Middleton so it could be argued that they have entered into (minor) competition with First, simply by maintaining Bluebird's old network. However, they have not yet introduced new commercial routes directly competing with First's prime services like the 17. A major bus war on that magnitude seems unlikely, especially now First have purchased Finglands.
Stagecoach did buy Bluebird of Middleton so it could be argued that they have entered into (minor) competition with First, simply by maintaining Bluebird's old network. However, they have not yet introduced new commercial routes directly competing with First's prime services like the 17. A major bus war on that magnitude seems unlikely, especially now First have purchased Finglands.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
First did extend the route of the 18 Langley to Shudehill bus station service across the city centre into the grounds of Manchester Royal Infirmary.
That is only really a minor incursion into Stagecoach territory. Indeed, they have even contracted from their original Rusholme route. Similarly, the 50 extension to MediaCityUK isn't really a declaration of war.
In order to run the cross-city services following the bus priority measures to enable them, it is inevitable for one or both companies to run into 'foreign' territory. The 18 and 50 extensions could be seen to be precursors.
TOCDriver
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I drive along this route quite regularly, Paul, and they are always Mercedes or Optare Minibuses
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Stonesourscotty
Member
113 is Optare Solos ADL Darts and on Sunday its run by Horrible Enviro 200's
Tomonthetrain
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Licence No PC0004873
https://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymousoperatorsearchdetails_new.asp?txtRequestId=101032
Route registration PC0004873/92
http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_se...cenceNo=PC0004873&cboRegNoFilter=PC0004873/92
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Some changes will take affect on 1st September on the Rochdale-Oldham-Manchester service corridor.
The peak-period X82 Milnrow to Manchester service will be withdrawn....(Four morning services and five evening services).
The 24 service will become an all-stops service and have a new route in the New Moston area, using Nuthurst Road and St Mary's Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Noting one particular implication of the most southernmost region of the TfGM area that the First purchase of Finglands will see, is where competition with Stagecoach in Manchester will not take place is the withdrawal of the Finglands 157 services that competed on part of that route with the X57 service run by Stagecoach in Manchester.
The peak-period X82 Milnrow to Manchester service will be withdrawn....(Four morning services and five evening services).
The 24 service will become an all-stops service and have a new route in the New Moston area, using Nuthurst Road and St Mary's Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Noting one particular implication of the most southernmost region of the TfGM area that the First purchase of Finglands will see, is where competition with Stagecoach in Manchester will not take place is the withdrawal of the Finglands 157 services that competed on part of that route with the X57 service run by Stagecoach in Manchester.
The 24 is reverting to its old 30 minute frequency. In the old days this route used to be almost as important as the 17 route between Rochdale and Manchester. In recent decades, the 17 has improved and the 24 has been run down and faced complete withdrawal not too long ago. The 24 is not the most essential bus as Rochdale to Royton and Royton to Manchester are served frequently by other buses, but it is nice to see the 24 getting improved.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
What do you think about the 24 becoming an all-stops service ?
Do you remember, as I do, the number 90 express double-decker rear-entry bus service from Stevenson Square to Rochdale running in that iconic blue and white livery ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
While we are on the subject of the Newhey area, has there ever been a bus service that ran north-westerly from Peppermint Bridge to the Denshaw area from, similar to the 900/901 services that run northwards from Cragg Vale past the resevoir en route to Huddersfield.
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Don't think the 157 and X57 compete - the 157 only runs evenings when the X57 has stopped.
The Finglands 41 to Sale and the Stagecoach X41 to Altrincham could be seen to compete during the day, but the X41 is also withdrawn in the evening and the Finglands 41 extended to Altrincham to cover, albeit now on a very poor hourly frequency.
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