TfL Fares for 2013 announced.

[Tyke Toper]

TfL Press announcement together with links to detailed pages here :-

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/26143.aspx

Mayor sets out major plan for transport investment while keeping fares as low as possible with rise at one per cent above inflation for 2013

Mayor secures extra funding to keep fare rise RPI+1 per cent.

The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, has set out a 2013 fares package that will help Transport for London (TfL) to continue and expand its major programme of investment in the capital's transport network, and provide the support required to boost jobs and economic growth in London.

The Mayor has secured an extra £96million of funding that will be used to keep next year's fares package lower than expected.

He confirmed today (7 November) that from 2 January 2013 fare increases on London's Tubes, buses, London Overground, Dockland's Light Railway (DLR) and trams will rise at one per cent above inflation overall.

It was also confirmed today that there will be increases to access fees for Barclays Cycle Hire in 2013.

An unprecedented investment in London's transport network is underway that is delivering faster, more frequent and reliable services for customers and supporting London and the UK's economic development and growth.

The Mayor also intends to expand that programme by making a significant investment in the capital's roads, increasing investment in cycling and cycle safety projects and ramping up work to improve the deep Tube lines. Further detail of those measures will be announced before the end of the year in TfL's new business plan

 

[MikeWh]

TfL Press announcement together with links to detailed pages here :-

http://******/YNd3mS

Try: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...flationbusting-travel-fares-hike-8293591.html

 

[bakerstreet]

Try: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...flationbusting-travel-fares-hike-8293591.html

Could this be the beginning of the end to the usefulness of paper in-boundary travelcards? According to the Standard it looks like a different price for PAYG daily cap and equivalent paper 1 day travelcard. Next year a small difference but bet it will widen year on year.

Such a shame they won't offer an online purchase of Oyster 1 day travelcard.

Doesnt use up any ticket office time nor ticket machine power and would be a more expensive transaction than I usually do for top up.

Oyster PAYG is no good if you want a day not worrying about taking too long on a journey.

How annoying!

 

[Be3G]

Am very disappointed to read that Oyster PAYG caps are being frozen whilst daily travelcard prices increased, in order to ‘encourage’ people to use the former. The two are not comparable; travelcards come with added river service discounts beyond that which PAYG offers, the ability to be easily extended with Boundary Zone tickets, and the knowledge that you'll never be overcharged by a system that thinks you've taken too long to complete a journey.

This, I worry, could be just the tip of the iceberg for the demise of the one-day travelcard. Just like the one-day bus pass.

 

[Deerfold]

Could this be the beginning of the end to the usefulness of paper in-boundary travelcards? According to the Standard it looks like a different price for PAYG daily cap and equivalent paper 1 day travelcard. Next year a small difference but bet it will widen year on year.

It's what we had when Oyster was first introduced - the cap was originally set at 50p less than the equivalent daily travelcard.

 

[bakerstreet]

It's what we had when Oyster was first introduced - the cap was originally set at 50p less than the equivalent daily travelcard.

Wow I don't remember that!
Thanks

 

[Deerfold]

Wow I don't remember that!
Thanks

They've only been the same since January 2010.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_10_09_fares.pdf

 

[Be3G]

That 50p difference, however, was to account for the fact that it wasn't usable on most National Rail services at the time. (Hence the pricing disparity was removed when Oyster was rolled out to all NR services in 2010.) I seem to recall the ASA actually banned some TfL adverts that suggested the Oyster was just as good as daily travelcards because of the lack of usefulness on NR.

 

[bicbasher]

A shame the cheaper Oyster PAYG cap is returning, I liked the choice of either putting enough on the card to meet the Travelcard cost or going to the station and picking up a paper one at no extra cost.

 

[causton]

We really need a one-day travelcard to be able to be loaded on to Oyster. I don't want to have to worry about journeys taking longer than Oyster expects because I am spending all my journey time around stations! If only we could add a one-day 'season' travelcard from a ticket machine...

 

[yorkie]

We really need a one-day travelcard to be able to be loaded on to Oyster.

Agreed. The reasons for outweigh the reasons against. I doubt TfL will listen to us though

 

[cjohnson]

Not sure if it has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, but Oyster PAYG is also being extended to Brentwood, Shenfield, Waltham Cross, Theobalds Grove, Cheshunt and Broxbourne from 2nd Jan.

 

[londonbridge]

A shame the cheaper Oyster PAYG cap is returning, I liked the choice of either putting enough on the card to meet the Travelcard cost or going to the station and picking up a paper one at no extra cost.

Which is fine until things go wrong. Checked my PAYG balance and had 60p so I added £8. Got the bus and the train into central London for the evening,got the train back,went to get on the bus home,not enough money on card! Balance was -£3.25! Rang the helpline and verified the journeys I'd made,the operator saw where one of my touches hadn't registered correctly (which I didn't notice at the time) and arranged a refund,but I still ended up walking home.

 

[transmanche]

A shame the cheaper Oyster PAYG cap is returning

Quite frankly I'm amazed to see reactions like this. PAYG price caps have been frozen at 2012 levels for another year. This is a good thing - yet you're complaining about it!

A Z1-4 off-peak, one-day Travelcard is increasing by 3.9% (which is still lower than the average increase of 4.2%). But it seems to be annoying people here simply because the equivalent use on Oyster PAYG is increasing by 0%.

In a time when fares are rising above inflation, knowing that you don't have to pay any more next year is fantastic news!

I don't want to have to worry about journeys taking longer than Oyster expects because I am spending all my journey time around stations!

And that's the crux of the problem. You're not a 'normal' passenger.

If you want the extra 'flexibility' to hang around stations, then I'm afraid you'll just have to 'suck it up' and pay the extra.

 

[oversteer]

That £1 increase on the daily cycle hire fee is going to put a lot of the casual commuter users off. I guess that is probably their intention. Maybe Barclays are contributing less now.

 

[yorkie]

And that's the crux of the problem. You're not a 'normal' passenger.

If you want the extra 'flexibility' to hang around stations, then I'm afraid you'll just have to 'suck it up' and pay the extra.

Problems can occur for "normal" passengers too.

Apart from the example preceding your post, someone who visits a location with an OSI (e.g. for a document transfer, a delivery, meeting a friend/relative, or any other reason) within the time window for the OSI to be active, has no way of cancelling an OSI (unless touching in on a bus counts) and therefore they could be making 2 journeys which would be linked into one shorter journey (thus exceeding the maximum journey time) and this can cause problems resulting in overcharging, even for people who are capped anyway.

My advice is to ensure your Oyster card is added to an Oyster Online account on the TfL website, and to activate auto-topup. Check your balance and journey history regularly in case of any unexpected charges, and if any occur contact the Oyster helpdesk (which must be within 28 days, but leave it a day or two before calling as they don't get the journey history instantly).

 

[transmanche]

Problems can occur for "normal" passengers too.

Quite. But how many 'normal' people will start their day thinking "well I'm going to buy a paper Travelcard today because I might get caught out by an OSI". In fact how many 'normal' people know (or care) what an OSI is anyway?

I haven't bought a paper one-day Travelcard since PAYG came into operation. I have only been overcharged once (delays on the Jubilee line led to me exceeding the maximum journey time). A minute spent filling out the form on the TfL website led to a quick refund.

As I said, if you want the extra 'flexibility' of a paper Travelcard then that's what you buy. But don't moan just because someone else's fare is going up less than your fare!

 

[Be3G]

Quite frankly I'm amazed to see reactions like this. PAYG price caps have been frozen at 2012 levels for another year. This is a good thing - yet you're complaining about it!

A Z1-4 off-peak, one-day Travelcard is increasing by 3.9% (which is still lower than the average increase of 4.2%). But it seems to be annoying people here simply because the equivalent use on Oyster PAYG is increasing by 0%.

I knew someone would make this point! I very nearly wrote something along the lines of ‘and for those who're about to say…’ in my original post in this thread. So now I'll say it:

Remember that the overall fares rise percentage has been set precisely. Therefore, the cost of the cap has not been frozen out of the goodness of TfL's hearts; instead, it has come at the come at the (literal) expense of another type of ticket. Put simply, personally speaking I'd have much preferred it if the cap and the paper travelcard had both risen by 2%, rather than the cap 0% and the paper one 4%. (The figures there have been simplified, but you get the idea.)

Also, it's not the lower price as such that bothers me; rather, it is what this indicates for the future. Look at the huge difference between the prices of paper and Oyster singles in London, and you see why I (and others) might be nervous. Or look at the one-day bus pass, which has been phased out entirely to be replaced by the Oyster PAYG bus cap.

Quite. But how many 'normal' people will start their day thinking "well I'm going to buy a paper Travelcard today because I might get caught out by an OSI".

Very few, of course. However, I know people who would buy a paper travelcard (if they haven't got me to guide them on how to use Oyster correctly) because they know it's inherently simpler and there's absolutely no risk of overcharging.

 

[transmanche]

Remember that the overall fares rise percentage has been set precisely. Therefore, the cost of the cap has not been frozen out of the goodness of TfL's hearts; instead, it has come at the come at the (literal) expense of another type of ticket. Put simply, personally speaking I'd have much preferred it if the cap and the paper travelcard had both risen by 2%, rather than the cap 0% and the paper one 4%. (The figures there have been simplified, but you get the idea.)

That's a very partial interpretation, which might have some credence if the split between those using Oyster PAYG and those using in-boundary Travelcards was 50:50. But is it?

However you spin it, it's quite clear that some people are simply jealous because other people will be paying less than them for making the same journeys.

Or look at the one-day bus pass, which has been phased out entirely to be replaced by the Oyster PAYG bus cap.

And? It's really no loss. IIRC, it was withdrawn because (like 3-day Travelcards) sales had fallen so low, it wasn't worth keeping. In the same way that so few people now pay cash fares, roadside ticket machines are going to be removed - as the amount of cash they take just about pays for servicing the machines!

Have you ever found that you needed to make more journeys than you originally intended? Or bought a bus pass and then found that you didn't get 'full value' from it. I know that I have... before Oyster PAYG was around.

 

[Be3G]

To be fair, I did say ‘the figures there have been simplified’!

In my case at least, it's not actually jealousy at all. The ticket I use most frequently for travelling around London is my Oyster with a railcard loaded on to it, and I enjoy the flexibility it brings. So in day-to-day travel, I will of course appreciate the frozen price caps. But I also appreciate the flexibility that a paper travelcard can provide, and my overriding concern is that the price of that will gradually increase more and more, or it'll be removed altogether in the future. So – as silly as it may sound – I would actually prefer to pay slightly more for my Oyster caps now than to see that happen.

Of course, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the perfect solution would be if a one-day travelcard could be added to the Oyster as a product, just like season tickets. If that had the same capabilities as the paper version, I'd be much less concerned.

 

[bicbasher]

I'm as pro Oyster as transmanche, yet let's not forget that it was introduced to reduce usage of paper tickets as seen with the abolition of various products which are now Oyster exclusive such as period bus passes and the complete abolition of CDR's within the London travelcard area on NR.

Despite Oyster being largely reliable, it's still not faultless and more complex to resolve issues than with a paper ticket and yes, normal pax do notice these things!

 

[transmanche]

But I also appreciate the flexibility that a paper travelcard can provide

That's fine. If that's the sort of flexibility which is important to you, I don't see what's wrong with other people getting a discount.

and my overriding concern is [...] it'll be removed altogether in the future.

Well of that i have no doubt, the paper Travelcard will disappear at some point. But then as the ticketing system in general moves away from paper-based tickets, many of the fares/tickets we see today will disappear. I don't expect that the fares structure of the future will be the same as it is today...

 

[Hadders]

Can some one tell me the date in January when the fares on national rail increase and when will the revised fares be put into the booking engines?

I am making a number of journeys in January/February using walk-up tickets which ordinarily I wouldn't buy until the day of travel. Presumably if I purchased them before the revised fares are loaded into the booking websites I could make a saving.

 

[island]

I understand it is the 2nd of January, and the fares should be loaded to the booking websites from the 9th of December. But I could be wrong.

 

[johnnycache]

Note that the Oyster pay as you go caps are no longer the same as the price of a paper one day Travelcard

 

[CNash]

On London's buses, the Oyster pay as you go fare will rise by 5p to £1.40 (3.7 per cent) and the cash fare will increase by 10p, ensuring that Oyster pay as you go continues to be the cheapest way to travel around the capital.

Weak justification for another Oyster-promoting cash fare hike. The Oyster fare would have to increase by a lot more than 3.7% for this claim to even come close to being false - in other words, £1.40 is still a lot cheaper than the current bus cash fare of £2.30. Is it really that important to maintain a solid £1 difference between the two?

 

[MikeWh]

Is it really that important to maintain a solid £1 difference between the two?

I'd say it is. No more than 1% of bus journeys pay cash now and TfL really don't want that to increase. Buses, and particularly drivers, are much safer without the thought that they are carrying around hundreds in ready cash.

 

[CNash]

I'd say it is. No more than 1% of bus journeys pay cash now and TfL really don't want that to increase. Buses, and particularly drivers, are much safer without the thought that they are carrying around hundreds in ready cash.

Of course; safety is a primary concern after all. But a 90p difference in price would (to my mind) be just as effective in dissuading cash fares as a £1 difference.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not a Londoner, but I was under the impression that you can reduce the Oyster daily price cap by adding a railcard discount. Does anyone know if the 1-6 daily price cap with a railcard and the discounted 1-6 travelcard will be in the same ratio as the new undiscounted differential (or just be affected by the 5p increments)?

I dread the idea that the cheapest one-day option is Oyster. Not good for people like myself who only visit a few times a year for one day!!!

 

[island]

They have traditionally both been 34%, rounded to the next 5p.