TFL OSI inquiries

[lnerazuma]

Hi all

2 questions:

1. How to end an OSI in a station? I did try to ask in different location including in a NR London terminal and TFL managed station, staff just asked me tapped in as usual, turned out either through robbery peak fare is charged or 2 maximum fare is charged.

2. Is Paddington & Liverpool Street liz line gatelines count as "National Rail" gateline?

Another irrelevant question: Without travelcard how can I travel between 4-7pm from Central London to Heathrow using liz line paying by oyster while getting £10 cap (with Railcard)?

All the hassle could be resolved by using travelcard but that's not an option soon.

Many thanks

 

[yorkie]

Hi all

2 questions:

1. How to end an OSI in a station? I did try to ask in different location including in a NR London terminal and TFL managed station, staff just asked me tapped in as usual, turned out either through robbery peak fare is charged or 2 maximum fare is charged.

I don't understand the question; can you clarify what your journey is?

An OSI is an out of station interchange; if you tapped in at an off peak time then the off peak fare will be charged for the journey.

An OSI does not "end" a journey.

However if you are asking if you can cancel an OSI, the best thing to do is state exactly what journey you are making and we can provide advice accordingly.

(If you are going to reach a relevant cap, you can cancel an OSI by tapping on a bus).

2. Is Paddington & Liverpool Street liz line gatelines count as "National Rail" gateline?

What do you mean? Are you asking if a particular journey will be charged at the LU or NR scale?

Another irrelevant question: Without travelcard how can I travel between 4-7pm from Central London to Heathrow using liz line paying by oyster while getting £10 cap (with Railcard)?

I will leave that for someone else to answer regarding the cap, but it can be cheaper to tap out and back in at Hayes & Harlington.

 

[lnerazuma]

Contactless journey from Canary Wharf to Reading

What I want:
18:30 Canary wharf tap in
18:55 Paddington tap out
£2.8 is charged

19:00 Paddington tap in
GWR fast train to reading & tap out
£12 is charged

In reality total £31 is charged

So how do I cut off the OSI in Paddington given that I want to use the same card?

--------

https://oysterfares.com/information-pages/interchanging-trains/osi-list/

The link above show the time buffer of OSI, I know GWR national rail platforms are categorised as NR so there would be 40 mins buffer counting from the sec I tap out the LU gate, but if I tap out at H&C 15/16 platform and tap in at Elizabeth line gateline travelling Westbound on GWML, how does it categorised? LU to LU 20 mins buffer or LU to NR 40 mins buffer?

 

[Watershed]

Surely there is a very simple answer here - use two separate payment cards, one for each part of your journey? That will avoid all possibility of being charged the through peak fare.

Otherwise it is possible to split the journey up, by touching in, out, and back in again at a particular set of barriers (note: this doesn't work with standalone validators). But doing so may attract the attention of gateline staff as it's an odd thing to do.

 

[lnerazuma]

This is an example of a popular journey but if you get a Railcard linked with your oyster and travel to destination like Gatwick, you will have minimal option.

Anyone have tried such method in Paddington GWR gateline? Don't wanna risk get charged by 2 maximum fare. Also is there any black and white listed in TFL/other TOC website for such method?

 

[alholmes]

According to the OSI list on the TfL website, Paddington LU to Paddington EL has a 20 minute limit.

Out-of-station interchanges

Full list of Out-of-Station Interchanges and the maximum times allowed

tfl.gov.uk

 

[Haywain]

This is an example of a popular journey but if you get a Railcard linked with your oyster and travel to destination like Gatwick, you will have minimal option.

Anyone have tried such method in Paddington GWR gateline? Don't wanna risk get charged by 2 maximum fare. Also is there any black and white listed in TFL/other TOC website for such method?

If you use two cards the first part wouldn't be discounted anyway as peak journeys do get receive a discount, so you could use contactless for that. Alternatively, get two Oyster cards with the discount on each of them.

 

[lnerazuma]

I'm particularly concerned for journey starting outside zone 1 before 19:00 and change at zone 1 after 19:00, as both journeys should entitled off peak railcard fare.

Using two oyster or contactless card is an anti customer behaviour suggestion and should only be suggested in last resort. It will have a high risk of mixing up cards and higher chance of getting charged 2 x maximum fare or even lead to penalty.

 

[yorkie]

I'm particularly concerned for journey starting outside zone 1 before 19:00 and change at zone 1 after 19:00, as both journeys should entitled off peak railcard fare.

Using two oyster or contactless card is an anti customer behaviour suggestion and should only be suggested in last resort. It will have a high risk of mixing up cards and higher chance of getting charged 2 x maximum fare or even lead to penalty.

You could write down which card you are going to use?

If this is a journey you do regularly, perhaps have a routine of using one particular card west of Paddington and another one east of there?

The suggestion works, and reduces the fare that TfL want you to pay; you can take it or leave it

Of course train operators would rather people paid a premium for through journeys started at peak times. They are hardly likely to reduce fares if that's what you are wanting!

 

[Haywain]

Of course train operators would rather people paid a premium for through journeys started at peak times.

A little unfair in this case, as it also works in the customer's favour if tge journey commences with a touch in at off peak times. It's more a case of what a simple charging system can result in.

 

[lnerazuma]

Otherwise it is possible to split the journey up, by touching in, out, and back in again at a particular set of barriers (note: this doesn't work with standalone validators). But doing so may attract the attention of gateline staff as it's an odd thing to do.

Anyone could provide a black and white from TFL or TOC of this method? Want to have something to back myself in case of getting challenged by staff or getting 2 maximum fare charged.

To be answered: Without travelcard how can I travel between 4-7pm from Central London to Heathrow using Elizabeth line paying by oyster while getting a £10 cap (current off peak zone 1-6 travelcard price)? As TFL always brainwash customer it'd always cheaper using oyster than buying a paper ticket

 

[Adoarable]

To be answered: Without travelcard how can I travel between 4-7pm from Central London to Heathrow using Elizabeth line paying by oyster while getting a £10 cap (current off peak zone 1-6 travelcard price)? As TFL always brainwash customer it'd always cheaper using oyster than buying a paper ticket

If you have an Oyster card with a Railcard discount enabled, simply tap in and tap out using this Oyster card. I’m fairly confident you’ll be charged £9.80 at most. (This is the “off-peak” Railcard discount cap for Zones 1-6. Despite the name this cap applies all day after 09:30am, including during the evening peak.)

 

[yorkie]

If you have an Oyster card with a Railcard discount enabled, simply tap in and tap out using this Oyster card. I’m fairly confident you’ll be charged £9.80 at most. (This is the “off-peak” Railcard discount cap for Zones 1-6. Despite the name this cap applies all day after 09:30am, including during the evening peak.)

Tap out and back in where? The passenger would be changing gateline at Paddington.

Is the suggestion to tap out at the XR barriers then tap in, out and back in at the GWR barriers?

 

[island]

tap in, out and back in at the GWR barriers?

If this is Adoarable's suggestion, it would be doomed to failure as the third tap would be rejected code 41 (Zigzag).

Without travelcard how can I travel between 4-7pm from Central London to Heathrow using Elizabeth line paying by oyster while getting a £10 cap (current off peak zone 1-6 travelcard price)? As TFL always brainwash customer it'd always cheaper using oyster than buying a paper ticket

Just tap in and out normally using your Oyster card with Railcard discount attached. Journeys made between 4-7pm charge peak fare but attract the off-peak cap.

 

[JonathanH]

If this is Adoarable's suggestion, it would be doomed to failure as the third tap would be rejected code 41 (Zigzag).

Not only that, the fare is undefined on the Single Fare Finder so could potentially be Zone 2-1 on the LU-NR mixed-mode scale or even priced via Zone 3 (for an assumed double back via Ealing Broadway), rather than just the Zone 2-1 LU scale.

The passenger would be travelling on Contactless though, as Oyster isn't valid to Reading.

 

[Adoarable]

Tap out and back in where? The passenger would be changing gateline at Paddington.

Is the suggestion to tap out at the XR barriers then tap in, out and back in at the GWR barriers?

If this is Adoarable's suggestion, it would be doomed to failure as the third tap would be rejected code 41 (Zigzag).


Just tap in and out normally using your Oyster card with Railcard discount attached. Journeys made between 4-7pm charge peak fare but attract the off-peak cap.

Not only that, the fare is undefined on the Single Fare Finder so could potentially be Zone 2-1 on the LU-NR mixed-mode scale or even priced via Zone 3 (for an assumed double back via Ealing Broadway), rather than just the Zone 2-1 LU scale.

The passenger would be travelling on Contactless though, as Oyster isn't valid to Reading.

The question I was answering was how to get to Heathrow, not Reading. By “tap in and tap out” I just meant use the Oyster card as normal, using gatelines or validators in the typical way.

 

[JonathanH]

The question I was answering was how to get to Heathrow, not Reading. By “tap in and tap out” I just meant use the Oyster card as normal, using gatelines or validators in the typical way.

Ah, at origin and Heathrow and let capping apply. Yes to that question that would seem right. Doesnt involve Paddington high level at all.

 

[MikeWh]

Anyone could provide a black and white from TFL or TOC of this method? Want to have something to back myself in case of getting challenged by staff or getting 2 maximum fare charged.

You won't get anything in black and white from TfL or a TOC. Whilst this method sometimes works, it is fraught with complications, including being accused of zig zagging (either electronically or verbally).

In view of the difference in fares I'd be inclined to touch in on a bus outside the Elizabeth line station, then get off again. Drivers are quite used to people doing this. It'll add £1.75, but if your combination of journeys means that a zone 1-2 cap may be charged with extension fares to/from Reading then you might get away with it anyway.

 

[Kilopylae]

accused of zig zagging

What would the nefarious intent of zig-zagging be?

 

[island]

What would the nefarious intent of zig-zagging be?

Getting two people through the gate on one season ticket.

 

[Somewhere]

Put your card on Google Pay. Use the physical card for one bit of the journey, then your phone for the other bit. The two legs won't be joined

 

[miklcct]

Put your card on Google Pay. Use the physical card for one bit of the journey, then your phone for the other bit. The two legs won't be joined

This has to be the best answer in this thread.

 

[zero]

Does the peak period still actually end at 1857?

Google pay still has the risk of mixing up the cards. The method I use is to put stickers on my cards and write what I intend to use them for

 

[lnerazuma]

Does the peak period still actually end at 1857?

Yes it does

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-1718

 

[Mojo]

If this is Adoarable's suggestion, it would be doomed to failure as the third tap would be rejected code 41 (Zigzag).

l stand to be corrected, but l believe this only applies to Travelcards and other multi-use tickets like staff nominee passes and Freedom passes.

l, myself have cancelled an OSI, by tapping in, out, and back in again, but this was with Oyster and also on a day l was capped, so am not sure of the consequences for a single trip. This was however a long time ago.