TfW ‘Active Travel’ Class 153s

[_toommm_]

Seen this rather interesting tweet from Richard Clinnick. I presume it’ll be the same sort of deal as the Scotrail 153 conversions?

There’s a fascinating project involving Active Travel and Cl.153s planned by @tfwrail. 153331 will be the first treated. Read more in upcoming editions of @railexpress

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1628820196939993088?s=46&t=c-sq5B9O53LUnLEnINLNgw

 

[pokemonsuper9]

With the picture being an ex-Northern unit, does this seem like they're going to refit 8 Northern units as these, get rid off all their current 153s, and replace them with these (Wikipedia notes they are keeping 8 for the Heart of Wales Line)?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

With the picture being an ex-Northern unit, does this seem like they're going to refit 8 Northern units as these, get rid off all their current 153s, and replace them with these (Wikipedia notes they are keeping 8 for the Heart of Wales Line)?

No. 8 of the 153s that TfW currently have are being retained, with 4 ex Northern ones being PRM-lite modded and turned into active travel bike units.

 

[_toommm_]

What’s the plan with their Sprinters, as surely most of them will be replaced when the 197s come into service. How long are they realistically expecting to get out of these?

 

[Techniquest]

No. 8 of the 153s that TfW currently have are being retained, with 4 ex Northern ones being PRM-lite modded and turned into active travel bike units.

Nice! This pleases me significantly!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

What’s the plan with their Sprinters, as surely most of them will be replaced when the 197s come into service. How long are they realistically expecting to get out of these?

No set length I don't think. Probably a good while until they can find a way to cascade 197s onto the route.

 

[Envoy]

I thought that the plan is to use 2 coach 153’s on the Heart of Wales Line with one of the coaches having ample bicycle space - presumably with seating for the cyclists? It think it would be nice if the cycle coach also had windows that could fully open so that people could take photos (on warmer days) without having tinted glass in the way. Is it not the case that single 153’s on the line become fully loaded?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I thought that the plan is to use 2 coach 153’s on the Heart of Wales Line with one of the coaches having ample bicycle space - presumably with seating for the cyclists? It think it would be nice if the cycle coach also had windows that could fully open so that people could take photos (on warmer days) without having tinted glass in the way. Is it not the case that single 153’s on the line become fully loaded?

How many diagrams are there fore the HoWL?
TfW seem to be retaining the original 8, and adding the new 4 = 12 total, or 6 2 car sets.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

How many diagrams are there fore the HoWL?
TfW seem to be retaining the original 8, and adding the new 4 = 12 total, or 6 2 car sets.

At the moment it's not easy to say how many diagrams there are due to them interworking with other services. Plus the morning and evening extras halfway each. I suspect it'll probably be 4 diagrams if not less in the end.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Seen this rather interesting tweet from Richard Clinnick. I presume it’ll be the same sort of deal as the Scotrail 153 conversions?

https://twitter.com/clinnick1/status/1628820196939993088?s=46&t=c-sq5B9O53LUnLEnINLNgw

The plan has changed slightly then, I believe, as IIRC the Northern units were planned to get the same PRM-lite conversion as the ex EMR/GA ones, with some of Transport for Wales' existing and already refurbished 153s to get the treatment.

 

[supervc-10]

It think it would be nice if the cycle coach also had windows that could fully open so that people could take photos (on warmer days) without having tinted glass in the way.

This would be lovely, but also a health and safety nightmare!

 

[Bob Price]

This would be lovely, but also a health and safety nightmare!

Other countries do it, and have open sided coaches on similar lines. We are a lot more risk adverse it would seem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Other countries do it, and have open sided coaches on similar lines. We are a lot more risk adverse it would seem.

It's also our smaller loading gauge. You can't lean far enough out of a UIC coach with full drop windows to whack your head on anything.

 

[Neptune]

I thought that the plan is to use 2 coach 153’s on the Heart of Wales Line with one of the coaches having ample bicycle space - presumably with seating for the cyclists?

The seating will be for everyone, not just cyclists.

 

[43096]

It's also our smaller loading gauge. You can't lean far enough out of a UIC coach with full drop windows to whack your head on anything.

The Rhätische Bahn have openable windows for photographers on their new stock. That railway has tight clearances in places.

 

[Richard Scott]

It's also our smaller loading gauge. You can't lean far enough out of a UIC coach with full drop windows to whack your head on anything.

You can in a tunnel or if another train passes.

 

[Jez]

It used to be 2 diagrams for the Heart of Wales when they worked Swansea-Shrewsbury but many get extended to Crewe and in the South they used to get extended to Cardiff as 'Swanline' services but havent for a while due to the Swanline stops mostly being picked up by the fast trains to Manchester since 2020.

Now with the extra train per day on the HOWL and the short workings at each end id say at least 3 diagrams will be needed. So 3 x 153 pairs with another pair of 153s for maintenance each day.

I assume they are still going to be maintained at Canton which means we could see them still on one Swanline in each direction or an ECS movement will be needed to get them to Swansea.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

It used to be 2 diagrams for the Heart of Wales when they worked Swansea-Shrewsbury but many get extended to Crewe and in the South they used to get extended to Cardiff as 'Swanline' services but havent for a while due to the Swanline stops mostly being picked up by the fast trains to Manchester since 2020.

Now with the extra train per day on the HOWL and the short workings at each end id say at least 3 diagrams will be needed. So 3 x 153 pairs with another pair of 153s for maintenance each day.

I assume they are still going to be maintained at Canton which means we could see them still on one Swanline in each direction or an ECS movement will be needed to get them to Swansea.

I believe maintenance will be moved to Crewe so that they can come on or off a Shrewsbury Crewe run or ECS to get to Shrewsbury. Would be difficult to get them to Canton as Cardiff crews will lost their traction knowledge. Crewe does plenty of sprinter maintenance at the moment anyway.

 

[craigybagel]

It used to be 2 diagrams for the Heart of Wales when they worked Swansea-Shrewsbury but many get extended to Crewe and in the South they used to get extended to Cardiff as 'Swanline' services but havent for a while due to the Swanline stops mostly being picked up by the fast trains to Manchester since 2020.

Now with the extra train per day on the HOWL and the short workings at each end id say at least 3 diagrams will be needed. So 3 x 153 pairs with another pair of 153s for maintenance each day.

I assume they are still going to be maintained at Canton which means we could see them still on one Swanline in each direction or an ECS movement will be needed to get them to Swansea.

Since the last timetable change the through working to Crewe has ended. Long term plan is for 197s on Crewe - Shrewsbury locals.

I believe maintenance will be moved to Crewe so that they can come on or off a Shrewsbury Crewe run or ECS to get to Shrewsbury. Would be difficult to get them to Canton as Cardiff crews will lost their traction knowledge. Crewe does plenty of sprinter maintenance at the moment anyway.

I think it's looking like Landore will be doing the maintenance. Crewe crews won't be keeping their competence on 153s either and without that the units can't get onto the depot in Crewe.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Since the last timetable change the through working to Crewe has ended. Long term plan is for 197s on Crewe - Shrewsbury locals.

I think it's looking like Landore will be doing the maintenance. Crewe crews won't be keeping their competence on 153s either and without that the units can't get onto the depot in Crewe.

That makes sense. I sense taxis from Carmarthen for the early and late starts!

 

[Caaardiff]

That makes sense. I sense taxis from Carmarthen for the early and late starts!

Even more reason for a Swansea Train Crew Depot.

 

[Jez]

Even more reason for a Swansea Train Crew Depot.

Would it be worth having a train crew depot in Swansea though just for the HOWL services. Given Carmarthen have always done the HOWL and its worked fine before.

 

[animationmilo]

It used to be 2 diagrams for the Heart of Wales when they worked Swansea-Shrewsbury but many get extended to Crewe and in the South they used to get extended to Cardiff as 'Swanline' services but havent for a while due to the Swanline stops mostly being picked up by the fast trains to Manchester since 2020.

Now with the extra train per day on the HOWL and the short workings at each end id say at least 3 diagrams will be needed. So 3 x 153 pairs with another pair of 153s for maintenance each day.

I assume they are still going to be maintained at Canton which means we could see them still on one Swanline in each direction or an ECS movement will be needed to get them to Swansea.

They need 4 153s at the moment

153 - 1
2V00 0419 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M02 0550 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury
2V06 0856 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M10 1418 Swansea to Shrewsbury
5M10 1837 Shrewsbury to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs
2V14 2129 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M16 2310 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury

153 - 2
2M04 0547 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V08 1121 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M12 1819 Swansea to Shrewsbury

153 - 3
2V04 0522 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M08 1140 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V12 1807 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2B70 2230 Swansea to Cardiff Central

153 - 4
2M06 0909 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V10 1517 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M14 2115 Swansea to Llandovery
2V16 2243 Llandovery to Swansea
5V16 0025 Swansea to Cardiff Canton Sidings

 

[craigybagel]

Would it be worth having a train crew depot in Swansea though just for the HOWL services. Given Carmarthen have always done the HOWL and its worked fine before.

Almost certainly not. A lot of expense and hassle, it's hard to see a couple of Carmarthen - Landore taxis every day costing more.

They need 4 153s at the moment

153 - 1
2V00 0419 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M02 0550 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury
2V06 0856 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M10 1418 Swansea to Shrewsbury
5M10 1837 Shrewsbury to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs
2V14 2129 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M16 2310 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury

153 - 2
2M04 0547 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V08 1121 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M12 1819 Swansea to Shrewsbury

153 - 3
2V04 0522 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M08 1140 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V12 1807 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2B70 2230 Swansea to Cardiff Central

153 - 4
2M06 0909 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V10 1517 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M14 2115 Swansea to Llandovery
2V16 2243 Llandovery to Swansea
5V16 0025 Swansea to Cardiff Canton Sidings

Plan is for all HOWL services to be 2 car operated in the future.

 

[animationmilo]

Almost certainly not. A lot of expense and hassle, it's hard to see a couple of Carmarthen - Landore taxis every day costing more.

Plan is for all HOWL services to be 2 car operated in the future.

If they need 4 153s that is 8, so have 8 of the TFW ones and the 4 northern ones makes sense, as you have 2 sets of 2 spare

 

[daikilo]

I am in favour of encouraging cycling but one cyclist plus one bike equals roughly three seat spaces. I hope they provide an equivalent contribution to revenue, especially as bike spaces are used even less than passenger seats.

It obviously helps that the stock might alternatively be scrapped.

 

[43096]

If they need 4 153s that is 8, so have 8 of the TFW ones and the 4 northern ones makes sense, as you have 2 sets of 2 spare

The TfW-owned 153 fleet currently consists of 7 fully PRM modified units, 2 with the PRM-lite mods and the 4 units awaiting conversion. It would make sense if the two PRM-lite units also became active travel sets - then there's only two variants.

 

[slipdigby]

I am in favour of encouraging cycling but one cyclist plus one bike equals roughly three seat spaces. I hope they provide an equivalent contribution to revenue, especially as bike spaces are used even less than passenger seats.

It obviously helps that the stock might alternatively be scrapped.

A calculation that is only relevant if cyclists are likely to crowd off other users at a ratio of 3 to 1. This seems unlikely given this effective doubling of on-train capacity.

The working theory is that provision of suitable facilities for cyclists (as well as being usable by other pax) will drive more new business to rail than just doubling up un-modded 153s on the route.

The question of marginal revenue (vs opex) is also somewhat moot on the Heart of Wales!

 

[Jez]

Almost certainly not. A lot of expense and hassle, it's hard to see a couple of Carmarthen - Landore taxis every day costing more.

Plan is for all HOWL services to be 2 car operated in the future.

Thats what I was thinking re having a depot at Landore.

If they need 4 x 2 car would they need to retain at least 1 more 153 so they have a set for maintenance?

They need 4 153s at the moment

153 - 1
2V00 0419 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M02 0550 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury
2V06 0856 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M10 1418 Swansea to Shrewsbury
5M10 1837 Shrewsbury to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs
2V14 2129 Shrewsbury to Llandrindod
2M16 2310 Llandrindod to Shrewsbury

153 - 2
2M04 0547 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V08 1121 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M12 1819 Swansea to Shrewsbury

153 - 3
2V04 0522 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M08 1140 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V12 1807 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2B70 2230 Swansea to Cardiff Central

153 - 4
2M06 0909 Swansea to Shrewsbury
2V10 1517 Shrewsbury to Swansea
2M14 2115 Swansea to Llandovery
2V16 2243 Llandovery to Swansea
5V16 0025 Swansea to Cardiff Canton Sidings

thanks for posting the current diagrams.

 

[sd0733]

The TfW-owned 153 fleet currently consists of 7 fully PRM modified units, 2 with the PRM-lite mods and the 4 units awaiting conversion. It would make sense if the two PRM-lite units also became active travel sets - then there's only two variants.

As i understand it that's exactly the plan for those 2 to be converted.