TfW 15x/17x withdrawals (17x now finished)

[Anonymous10]

View attachment 146558

A new low, perhaps

Image description: Class 150 interior; seat cushion has been removed from the base, rendering the seat effectively unusable

Perhaps removed at an out station and on its way back to Canton?

 

[33017]

View attachment 146558

A new low, perhaps

Image description: Class 150 interior; seat cushion has been removed from the base, rendering the seat effectively unusable

Almost certainly removed due to it being soiled. Far better that and lose one seat than lock out an entire coach.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Almost certainly removed due to it being soiled. Far better that and lose one seat than lock out an entire coach.

Or someone has pulled it off and chucked it out of the window. It use to be a sport on Merseyrail, there were loads of them down the lineside.

 

[Bob Price]

Landore seems to be the gathering place for the 175's. Another one is on its way down there on 5Z99. It passed on the cameras and couldn't see the number clearly but may be 003.

 

[L401CJF]

There were still a few 175s up in Holyhead when I was there on Sunday.

175001 was idling in Chester yard when I got there on Monday (if I remember rightly) before shunting off into the depot. Unsure if its still there, there's definitely at least 1 other in Chester yard

 

[MP393]

Landore seems to be the gathering place for the 175's. Another one is on its way down there on 5Z99. It passed on the cameras and couldn't see the number clearly but may be 003.

It is 175003 on 5Z99 to Landore. Attempt number two of getting it down south!

 

[Jez]

There were still a few 175s up in Holyhead when I was there on Sunday.

175001 was idling in Chester yard when I got there on Monday (if I remember rightly) before shunting off into the depot. Unsure if its still there, there's definitely at least 1 other in Chester yard

There were loads of 175s outside Crewe when i passed at the weekend.

 

[Snow1964]

TfW have just issued a tender for what appears to be overhauls of class 153s through to 20th November 2029 (6 years time), which rather suggests they are not leaving soon.

1 buyer​

• TFW Pontypridd

Description​

The focus of the project described within this Request for Proposal (the RfP) concerns the heave maintenance coded repairs C4 and C6 for Class 153s rolling stock that operate on the Heart of Wales Line between Swansea and Shrewsbury via various market towns and villages.

Total Quantity or Scope​

The Class 153 Units were originally built as a 2-car Class 155 Unit. The Class 155s were split into single car units in the early 1990s. Class 153s were intended for service on rural branch lines where passenger numbers do not justify longer trains, or to boost the capacity on trains with high passenger volume. TfWR have purchased a total of 13 Class 153 units from Angel trains. In addition to the TfWR owned Class 153 vehicles there is also lease a quantity of 17 Class 153 vehicles from Porterbrook Leasing Company Limited (Porterbrook) under a ‘Soggy Lease’. This RfP covers all of these vehicles for which goods and services are required for the completion of C4 and C6 exams.

CPV Codes​

• 50200000 - Repair, maintenance and associated services related to aircraft, railways, roads and marine equipment

Indicators​

• Variant bids may be considered.
• This is a one-off contract (no recurrence)
• Renewals are not available.

Other Information​

** PREVIEW NOTICE, please check Find a Tender for full details. ** NOTE: To register your interest in this notice and obtain any additional information please visit the Sell2Wales Web Site at https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/Search/Search_Switch.aspx?ID=136622. The buyer has indicated that it will accept electronic responses to this notice via the Postbox facility. A user guide is available at https://www.sell2wales.gov.wales/sitehelp/help_guides.aspx. Suppliers are advised to allow adequate time for uploading documents and to dispatch the electronic response well in advance of the closing time to avoid any last minute problems. (WA Ref:136622) The buyer considers that this contract is suitable for consortia.

Class 153 C4 and C6 Exams [Notice]

The focus of the project described within this Request for Proposal (the RfP) concerns the heave mai... A Tender Notice by TFW.

bidstats.uk

 

[Anonymous10]

TfW have just issued a tender for what appears to be overhauls of class 153s through to 20th November 2029 (6 years time), which rather suggests they are not leaving soon.

Class 153 C4 and C6 Exams [Notice]

The focus of the project described within this Request for Proposal (the RfP) concerns the heave mai... A Tender Notice by TFW.

bidstats.uk

It was planned since the new fleet shake-up several years ago that some of the class 153's would remain to work the Heart of Wales Line services.

 

[Snow1964]

It was planned since the new fleet shake-up several years ago that some of the class 153's would remain to work the Heart of Wales Line services.

I have always wondered why they didn't specify an articulated unit to replace them, a 3 bogie unit much like the existing DLR stock, shorter than a 2car 19x, but bit less squashed onboard and with room for a toilet

 

[Philip]

Which was the last 175 to work in passenger service and what date?

 

[Cambrian359]

Does that mean they intend to keep 30 class 153 units? (13 owned & 17 leased) ?

 

[Anonymous10]

Does that mean they intend to keep 30 class 153 units? (13 owned & 17 leased) ?

No I believe its initially for all 30 and later for the 13 owned units.

 

[Caaardiff]

Isn't it Pullman that usually does the C exams? The Pullman that TFW owns?

 

[Anonymous10]

Isn't it Pullman that usually does the C exams? The Pullman that TFW owns?

Possibly trying to free up capacity for caring for the 197s and metro stock?

 

[gabrielhj07]

What is a 'soggy lease'?

 

[Caaardiff]

This is heavy maintenance C exams that Canton never do. Pullman do 150s and 153's. 158's are done at Doncaster. Pullman is still separate to Canton operationally.

As a side note, in terms of regular maintenance Chester and Machynleth will be maintaining 197's. Canton won't be doing much maintenance on them at all as they are not counted as a maintenance Depot for 197's. Metro stock (398s) will be maintained at Taffs Well.

Canton currently maintain 36 150's, 26 153's, 3 (previously 12) 170's, some Mk4 maintenance, then 231's and 756's.
Prior to the Stadlers that means Canton were maintaining 74 DMU's.
In the near future under the current fleet plans Canton will be maintaining 10 153's, 11 231's, and 24 756's, in total 45 DMU's. So there should be plenty of scope for Canton to pick up more work.

 

[43096]

What is a 'soggy lease'?

Somewhere between a dry lease and a wet lease...

Dry lease - operator is responsible for all maintenance (including heavy overhauls).
Soggy lease - maintenance responsibility split; normally operator responsible for lighter maintenance, leasing company heavy maintenance (at privatisation this was generally split between operator doing Level 1-4 work while owner was responsible for Level 5 work).
Wet lease - leasing company is responsible for all maintenance.

 

[Anonymous10]

This is heavy maintenance C exams that Canton never do. Pullman do 150s and 153's. 158's are done at Doncaster. Pullman is still separate to Canton operationally.

As a side note, in terms of regular maintenance Chester and Machynleth will be maintaining 197's. Canton won't be doing much maintenance on them at all as they are not counted as a maintenance Depot for 197's. Metro stock (398s) will be maintained at Taffs Well.

Canton currently maintain 36 150's, 26 153's, 3 (previously 12) 170's, some Mk4 maintenance, then 231's and 756's.
Prior to the Stadlers that means Canton were maintaining 74 DMU's.
In the near future under the current fleet plans Canton will be maintaining 10 153's, 11 231's, and 24 756's, in total 45 DMU's. So there should be plenty of scope for Canton to pick up more work.

Considering atm the 197s can not go to Machynlleth that only leaves Chester at current so you'd think Canton would do a initial service level ie filters ect for operational convenience.

 

[Thornaby 37]

Which was the last 175 to work in passenger service and what date?

175101 + 175109 worked an early morning Cardiff to Chester service on 17th October
That turned out to be the last class 175 passenger working

 

[animationmilo]

This is heavy maintenance C exams that Canton never do. Pullman do 150s and 153's. 158's are done at Doncaster. Pullman is still separate to Canton operationally.

As a side note, in terms of regular maintenance Chester and Machynleth will be maintaining 197's. Canton won't be doing much maintenance on them at all as they are not counted as a maintenance Depot for 197's. Metro stock (398s) will be maintained at Taffs Well.

Canton currently maintain 36 150's, 26 153's, 3 (previously 12) 170's, some Mk4 maintenance, then 231's and 756's.
Prior to the Stadlers that means Canton were maintaining 74 DMU's.
In the near future under the current fleet plans Canton will be maintaining 10 153's, 11 231's, and 24 756's, in total 45 DMU's. So there should be plenty of scope for Canton to pick up more work.

I think in the future the 153 repair work will be going to Crewe C.S instead of Cardiff.

 

[berneyarms]

Considering atm the 197s can not go to Machynlleth that only leaves Chester at current so you'd think Canton would do an initial service level ie filters ect for operational convenience.

Since the units that Machynlleth will be maintaining aren’t yet in service, what difference would that make?

 

[Anonymous10]

Since the units that Machynlleth will be maintaining aren’t yet in service, what difference would that make?

There are however I believe more units in service now than there was 175s so it's a matter of time.

 

[sd0733]

I think in the future the 153 repair work will be going to Crewe C.S instead of Cardiff

Fairly sure the plan isn't to use either of those but to use Landore for all day to day maintenance requirements.
AFAIK Crewe drivers won't sign 153s so they can't go onto Crewe.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I think in the future the 153 repair work will be going to Crewe C.S instead of Cardiff.

Fairly sure that's been discounted now, and its more likely to occur at Landore. This is because Crewe will be losing their 153 knowledge and only they sign the CS. Shrewsbury and Carmarthen will be the only depots to retain knowledge of 153s.

 

[Caaardiff]

Fairly sure that's been discounted now, and its more likely to occur at Landore. This is because Crewe will be losing their 153 knowledge and only they sign the CS. Shrewsbury and Carmarthen will be the only depots to retain knowledge of 153s.

Is that the same for Crewe guards? As they currently work Heart of Wales services.

There are however I believe more units in service now than there was 175s so it's a matter of time.

Chester will be doing routine maintenance on all non-etcs 197s and heavy maintenance on all 197s including ETCS.
Machynlleth will be doing routine maintenance on ETCS 197s only.

 

[Jez]

In a recent issue of Modern Railways they gave a table showing a breakdown of the plan for overnight stabling once all the new trains are in service and the 158/150/170s have been withdrawn. Of the 153s being retained it says 2 will be stabled at Carmarthen, 2 at Shrewsbury, 2 at Crewe Depot and 6 at Canton Depot. Now this may well change but im sure only Cardiff train crew can take them from Central to Canton depot even if Carmarthen take them over to Swansea from Cardiff.

Incidently, 197s will be stabled at nearly every location aside from the 3 South Wales Valley location. And they list 3 locations at Chester - depot, yard and the station.

 

[Caaardiff]

Landore isn't 24hr so unless Chrysalis are planning on going for the tender and becoming 24hrs then can't see Landore being a viable option. Crewe were doing 153 exams but that seems to have stopped lately.
With the long term plans of more south Wales metro services its likely TFW will need to take on more units, which will probably be Flirts, so the space may be needed at Canton.

 

[craigybagel]

Fairly sure the plan isn't to use either of those but to use Landore for all day to day maintenance requirements.
AFAIK Crewe drivers won't sign 153s so they can't go onto Crewe.

Fairly sure that's been discounted now, and its more likely to occur at Landore. This is because Crewe will be losing their 153 knowledge and only they sign the CS. Shrewsbury and Carmarthen will be the only depots to retain knowledge of 153s.

Is that the same for Crewe guards? As they currently work Heart of Wales services.


Chester will be doing routine maintenance on all non-etcs 197s and heavy maintenance on all 197s including ETCS.
Machynlleth will be doing routine maintenance on ETCS 197s only.

In a recent issue of Modern Railways they gave a table showing a breakdown of the plan for overnight stabling once all the new trains are in service and the 158/150/170s have been withdrawn. Of the 153s being retained it says 2 will be stabled at Carmarthen, 2 at Shrewsbury, 2 at Crewe Depot and 6 at Canton Depot. Now this may well change but im sure only Cardiff train crew can take them from Central to Canton depot even if Carmarthen take them over to Swansea from Cardiff.

Incidently, 197s will be stabled at nearly every location aside from the 3 South Wales Valley location. And they list 3 locations at Chester - depot, yard and the station.

Latest plans were indeed for Crewe drivers to lose 153 competency when the 153s come off all routes other than HOWL. With 81 drivers ECS moves to and from the depot at Crewe aren't enough to maintain competency without some other booked work.

Crewe Guards will naturally need to keep their competence as they still work the HOWL. That's not to say these plans won't change however. That's happened a lot already since the transfer from ATW.

Now this may well change but im sure only Cardiff train crew can take them from Central to Canton depot even if Carmarthen take them over to Swansea from Cardiff.

Landore isn't 24hr so unless Chrysalis are planning on going for the tender and becoming 24hrs then can't see Landore being a viable option. Crewe were doing 153 exams but that seems to have stopped lately.
With the long term plans of more south Wales metro services its likely TFW will need to take on more units, which will probably be Flirts, so the space may be needed at Canton.

Carmarthen used to sign Canton, as did Crewe once upon a time. Crewe lost their competence during COVID but I'm not sure about Carmarthen.

 

[33017]

Latest plans were indeed for Crewe drivers to lose 153 competency when the 153s come off all routes other than HOWL. With 81 drivers ECS moves to and from the depot at Crewe aren't enough to maintain competency without some other booked work.

Crewe Guards will naturally need to keep their competence as they still work the HOWL. That's not to say these plans won't change however. That's happened a lot already since the transfer from ATW.



Carmarthen used to sign Canton, as did Crewe once upon a time. Crewe lost their competence during COVID but I'm not sure about Carmarthen.

Carmarthen no longer sign Canton. Given Canton is signed by only CVL and Cardiff mainline drivers, Crewe only by Crewe, Chester only by Chester and Landore only by a handful of Cardiff drivers, something will have to give.