TfW 15x/17x withdrawals (17x now finished)

[Jez]

I don’t think you can! Not on the mainlines anyway. On the Valley lines, I was always grateful for anything more than a bus.

No but as much as i dislike the 150s and i really do dislike them, id rather a TFW 150 than a Northern.

 

[Bikeman78]

Thats probabaly why i never had the pleasure of the northern units. i very rarely use the valley lines. I was lucky that whenever a 150 was substituting on the mainline it was a TFW unit (if you can call riding a 150 lucky of course!)

I reckon 150270 spent 20-25 % of its time off the valleys. It worked almost the entire TfW network, apart from the Cambrian obviously. The only bit I don't have a recorded working for is Frodsham to Manchester Airport. The Welsh 150s are quite civilised compared with the original 3+2 seats. The tables behind the cabs are the best place to sit.

 

[45076]

Does anyone have any news on 150242?

 

[TJDevon]

What is the current best estimate as to when TfW will be able to release any of their 150s?

 

[Caaardiff]

What is the current best estimate as to when TfW will be able to release any of their 150s?

Don't you mean scrap? Unlikely they'll find a new home.
Supposedly no sign of them leaving until Q3 2024 at the earliest.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Don't you mean scrap? Unlikely they'll find a new home.
Supposedly no sign of them leaving until Q3 2024 at the earliest.

Really? Is that based on internal information then? I was told by someone sent an internal email that 197s will be introduced on Maesteg/Cheltenhams from early new year, and 756s on Pontypridds from May/June, which allows for the 150s to start getting gone. Might be wrong though.

Despite leaving for EMR at 11am tomorrow, 170207 is working on Maestegs today. Photo shows it at Cardiff Central about 15 minutes ago.

 

[Caaardiff]

Q3 starts 1st July so not too far off.
As with everything with TFW, nothing happens on time. 150s are needed on the Valleys and Ebbw Vale services. It's all dependant on 197 delivery rate to get them working in West Wales and also provide much needed capacity on Marches services.
Even with 756s in service I can see them using the 150s to boost capacity wherever possible until the 398s start.
Apparently when big exams are due, porterbrook won't be getting the exams done so they'll be retired, whether that will start to happen before Q3 is unknown.

 

[43096]

Don't you mean scrap? Unlikely they'll find a new home.

TfW won’t be making the decision to scrap the 150s (or not). It’s nothing to do with them.

 

[Anonymous10]

Q3 starts 1st July so not too far off.
As with everything with TFW, nothing happens on time. 150s are needed on the Valleys and Ebbw Vale services. It's all dependant on 197 delivery rate to get them working in West Wales and also provide much needed capacity on Marches services.
Even with 756s in service I can see them using the 150s to boost capacity wherever possible until the 398s start.
Apparently when big exams are due, porterbrook won't be getting the exams done so they'll be retired, whether that will start to happen before Q3 is unknown.

One would assume if there is enough money in it the 150s could receive their exams to work for other TOCs if the business case is viable.

 

[Caaardiff]

One would assume if there is enough money in it the 150s could receive their exams to work for other TOCs if the business case is viable.

Not sure any other TOCS would want to put money into 40 year old knackered commuter trains when most are replacing or cascading younger stock.
Hopefully TFW will get the most out of them to boost capacity where its needed until all the new trains are in service.

 

[Anonymous10]

Not sure any other TOCS would want to put money into 40 year old knackered commuter trains when most are replacing or cascading younger stock.
Hopefully TFW will get the most out of them to boost capacity where its needed until all the new trains are in service.

I'm thinking gwr considering their issues with overcrowding on routes, 150s for Devon Cornwall and 16x for Bristol services, leaving 158s for the long distance work but who knows.

 

[Towers]

The 150s heading to GWR is certainly not a huge stretch given the current fleet issues there.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As 170207 headed to EMR today, leaving TfW with 170208 as their only Turbostar now, I don't expect there will be any further booked 170 workings.
Not with one single unit. I imagine it'll be used only ad hoc as a spare to cover unavailable 150s and 153s before it leaves in January.

There are no 170 operated services for TfW today as I expected. Everything Maesteg and Cheltenham is 150. 170208 will be on Canton.

 

[Anonymous10]

As 170207 headed to EMR today, leaving TfW with 170208 as their only Turbostar now, I don't expect there will be any further booked 170 workings.
Not with one single unit. I imagine it'll be used only ad hoc as a spare to cover unavailable 150s and 153s before it leaves in January.

There are no 170 operated services for TfW today as I expected. Everything Maesteg and Cheltenham is 150. 170208 will be on Canton.

They could use it tho as they can couple to 15x stock in service so it could be on routine maintenance.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They could use it tho as they can couple to 15x stock in service so it could be on routine maintenance.

I’m well aware that 170s and Sprinters can couple, what I’m saying is that having dedicated 170 diagrams will be silly when there’s only one, as it’ll be very unlikely it can stick to it every day of the week along with other reasons, so if it stays running we will possibly see it on random/varied turns as a stand in or in a common pool with the 150/153s allocated to Gloucester Maesteg.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

I’m well aware that 170s and Sprinters can couple, what I’m saying is that having dedicated 170 diagrams will be silly when there’s only one, as it’ll be very unlikely it can stick to it every day of the week along with other reasons, so if it stays running we will possibly see it on random/varied turns as a stand in or in a common pool with the 150/153s allocated to Gloucester Maesteg.

Often there is a single 158 on those turns, the first train of the day from Cheltenham has been a 158 an awful lot lately (although not today)

As the 150s/153s are operating to the faster timings I would hazard a guess that they would use it, none of the diagrams seems to be specific to a type of train as I think the vast majority are self contained to the route?

 

[Jez]

As 170207 headed to EMR today, leaving TfW with 170208 as their only Turbostar now, I don't expect there will be any further booked 170 workings.
Not with one single unit. I imagine it'll be used only ad hoc as a spare to cover unavailable 150s and 153s before it leaves in January.

There are no 170 operated services for TfW today as I expected. Everything Maesteg and Cheltenham is 150. 170208 will be on Canton.

It seems pointless keeping just 1 of.the 170s until January. I.suppose it could be used on an ad hoc basis if they need cover but it won't be able.to be booked.for.any work as you said.

 

[craigybagel]

It seems pointless keeping just 1 of.the 170s until January. I.suppose it could be used on an ad hoc basis if they need cover but it won't be able.to be booked.for.any work as you said.

People are already complaining there isn't enough capacity at TfW, and some of the December timetable improvements have had to be postponed. They need all the capacity they can get - and 1 170 is better than none.

 

[Jez]

People are already complaining there isn't enough capacity at TfW, and some of the December timetable improvements have had to be postponed. They need all the capacity they can get - and 1 170 is better than none.

Yes but realistically is one unit going to make a difference given it won't be booked. By the time you factor in maintenance requirements as well

 

[sd0733]

Yes but realistically is one unit going to make a difference given it won't be booked. By the time you factor in maintenance requirements as well

It is booked a diagram on paper at least. If it isn't then available something else can cover it instead like it is today.
If it's got round wheels it's good to go at the moment!

06:14/09:32/12:33/15:33/18:33 Cardiff to Ebbw and return is the diagram that's still officially 170.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It is booked a diagram on paper at least. If it isn't then available something else can cover it instead like it is today.
If it's got round wheels it's good to go at the moment!

06:14/09:32/12:33/15:33/18:33 Cardiff to Ebbw and return is the diagram that's still officially 170.

Considering the relatively limited number of crews that sign 170 (just Cardiff mainline crews AIUI), I suppose it actually makes more sense to keep it to a booked diagram that can be substituted for something else, rather than keeping the 170 as the substitute and then it end up being needed for a diagram where crew knowledge (or even route clearance?) could cause issues.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m going to assume it only booked for weekdays then, as it can’t work 7 days a week on its own.

 

[Caaardiff]

I’m going to assume it only booked for weekdays then, as it can’t work 7 days a week on its own.

No reason it couldn't work every day and then get covered by 15x when it's on exam or other maintenance.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No reason it couldn't work every day and then get covered by 15x when it's on exam or other maintenance.

I suppose so yes. It does seem very peculiar to have a fleet of one train type. Rather amusing.

 

[bramling]

I suppose so yes. It does seem very peculiar to have a fleet of one train type. Rather amusing.

I’m sure it’s not without precedent, especially taking into account the possibility of oddball units within a fleet having their own diagram for whatever reason.

FGW had the two 150/0s on their own diagrams at various times.

It’s quite feasible to have 100% availability for, say, Monday to Friday with maintenance planned for the weekend. Though not ideal in the longer term for obvious reasons.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

FGW had the two 150/0s on their own diagrams at various times.

I know, but one alone!

 

[Stephen1001]

I know, but one alone!

Not even new to Cardiff in the 21st century, given the Bay branch was diagrammed for the sole class 121 in the Arriva Trains Wales fleet from 2006 to 2013.

(Mods feel free to move this if it's too irrelevant to the thread title!)

 

[sd0733]

175101 and 175109 booked to depart Chester tomorrow.

Edited to remove the rest as not correct

 

[Anonymous10]

175101 and 109 currently shown on the system as running ecs Chester to Crewe tomorrow to work a part reinstated 08:10 Crewe to Cardiff before heading onto Canton. Whether actually runs is another matter but the amended diagram including 5Zxx ecs from Chester and onto Canton seems to make it slightly more plausible. Time will tell! Not sure why they'd be wanted at Canton but could be them heading gradually to Landore.

Odd choice considering I thought they're All off lease.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The only 08.10 I can see from Crewe to Cardiff is an ecs movement, 5V35? Which matches in digits the 5Z35 Chester to Crewe and 5F35 Cardiff to Canton.

The 08.10 is pathed through to Carmarthen, so I guess it's an ecs part using the path of a passenger service as far as Cardiff; an ecs move for 175s would make sense - and it doesn't mean they'll be coming back into service.