TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[Towers]

The Class 165 and 166 which ran the Paddington suburban services until electrification and then subsequent replacement by Elizabeth Line services have toilets.

The Elizabeth Line largely replaced 387s on the stoppers, but those 387s still operate semi-fast services calling Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford, so for those commuting straight into London there are options available to change onto faster, better equipped services.

The Elizabeth Line again isn’t a great comparison, few would argue that it’s anything other than a glorified tube train for most of its length, and as above the Paddington - Reading stretch runs parallel to other options for those going end to end.

 

[tfw756rider]

I can see a situation like on the southeastern 707, toilets to be fitted to 398s

It's not possible, as right from the beginning Transport for Wales said that big (accessible) toilets won't fit, and due to Persons with Reduced Mobility regulations, they can't only have small ("non-accessible") toilets either (despite that apparently being allowed on road coaches for some reason). Therefore, the 398s will never have toilets.

 

[John R]

The Elizabeth Line largely replaced 387s on the stoppers, but those 387s still operate semi-fast services calling Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford, so for those commuting straight into London there are options available to change onto faster, better equipped services.

The Elizabeth Line again isn’t a great comparison, few would argue that it’s anything other than a glorified tube train for most of its length, and as above the Paddington - Reading stretch runs parallel to other options for those going end to end.

Sure, but there are suburban stations which are only served by Elizabeth Line services (eg Taplow, Burnham), which were previously served by trains with toilets. Hence the comment "none of the other operations that you mention have ever had toilet facilities" was inaccurate.

 

[MikePJ]

Just to add some facts to the endless toilet debate - this map from January 2024 shows all the infrastructure upgrades that were planned at the time, including proposals for new toilets.

Listing out the proposed toilet provision line by line:

Treherbert Line:

• Treherbert (new)
• Tonypandy (new)

Aberdare Line:

• Aberdare (new)
• Abercynon (new)

Merthyr Line:

• Merthyr Tydfil (new)

City Line - no stations with toilets

Main TAM line towards Cardiff:

• Pontypridd (existing)
• Radyr (existing)
• Queen St (existing)
• Cardiff Central (existing)

The placement seems to have been arranged so that there's a toilet stop available about every 15-20 minutes.

 

[aar0]

The Wales Online story is sufficiently vague that a lot of comments on Facebook are from people who think this is an all TfW move to not have on train toilets… and that as a result they will no longer take the Milford Haven to Manchester train etc

 

[Chris125]

I can see a situation like on the southeastern 707, toilets to be fitted to 398s

The Desiro Cities were designed to have toilets, the 707 just didn't have them installed, so a relatively straightforward retrofit.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Wales Online story is sufficiently vague that a lot of comments on Facebook are from people who think this is an all TfW move to not have on train toilets… and that as a result they will no longer take the Milford Haven to Manchester train etc

Sounds about right for them…

 

[Bob Price]

The article is total rage bait. This has been known about for 7 to 8 years. It listed on the TfW FAQs. It's simply Wales On Line trying to get clicks. The trams won't have toilets. Just as on the Newcastle lines that became Metro, the Altrincham and Bury lines which became Metrolink and the Metropolitan line which, at one point, had toilets and a restaurant car, people will adapt.

 

[56xx]

The no toilet issue is now raised by Wales on Line. I wonder how full the tanks are on the 756’s at the end of the day? Was it not the case that the DMU’s used in the valleys before the sprinters lacked toilets - and corridor connections?

'We're dreading it' Toilet-free trains being introduced in Wales

"The drivers and conductors are gobsmacked and dreading the day these trains are put into service"

www.walesonline.co.uk

Just managed to be the last to use the toilet this week on a 756 as the the tank was full. Reported it to the guard who promptly closed the toilet.

Wales is presumably the main incontinent Country in the world.

I have to use the toilet on every return journey from Cardiff on my 1 hour and 10 minute ride.

Besides, many places in the valleys are really very rough to be honest, the toilets would only end up trashed and locked out of use like the 150s always were.

Unstaffed station toilets would be a no no in any part of the country. The South Wales Valleys have no more roughies per head of population than cities such as Cardiff. The good people of Maesteg, Rhymney and Ebbw Vale will continue to have the needed facility wheras the good people of Treherbert, Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil will not. I have never found a valley line train toilet trashed and locked out of use only tank full as above or blocked by paper towels etc.

Just to add some facts to the endless toilet debate - this map from January 2024 shows all the infrastructure upgrades that were planned at the time, including proposals for new toilets.

Listing out the proposed toilet provision line by line:

Treherbert Line:

• Treherbert (new)
• Tonypandy (new)

Aberdare Line:

• Aberdare (new)
• Abercynon (new)

Merthyr Line:

• Merthyr Tydfil (new)

City Line - no stations with toilets

Main TAM line towards Cardiff:

• Pontypridd (existing)
• Radyr (existing)
• Queen St (existing)
• Cardiff Central (existing)

The placement seems to have been arranged so that there's a toilet stop available about every 15-20 minutes.

No toilet at Radyr as far as I know at least on the platforms

The article is total rage bait. This has been known about for 7 to 8 years. It listed on the TfW FAQs. It's simply Wales On Line trying to get clicks. The trams won't have toilets. Just as on the Newcastle lines that became Metro, the Altrincham and Bury lines which became Metrolink and the Metropolitan line which, at one point, had toilets and a restaurant car, people will adapt.

I will find it very hard to adapt!!!!

 

[MikePJ]

No toilet at Radyr as far as I know at least on the platforms

You're right - that must be a mistake on the drawing. Since a black symbol is used to denote "existing toilet" and a red one to denote "new toilet to be built", there's a possibility that they used the wrong symbol. It does make sense to have a toilet at Radyr as, being a junction, people will wait there to change trains.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Merseyrail trains (old and new) had/have no toilets.
There are toilets at stations in central Liverpool and at some others (eg Hooton) but you have to ask for the key.
Most stations are manned.

Passenger toilets were created (some time ago) at all Merseyrail stations inside the Merseyside boundary, which are all staffed. Many are now on electric door release from the ticket office (which is where staff are usually located).

It is probably not a coincidence that Little Sutton, Overpool, Capenhurst and Bache are all outside of Merseyside despite being Merseyrail stations - all are unstaffed and have no toilets. According to National Rail website there is a toilet at Ellesmere Port but probably only available during booking office hours (weekdays until 2pm).

 

[chargesmith]

The article is total rage bait. This has been known about for 7 to 8 years. It listed on the TfW FAQs. It's simply Wales On Line trying to get clicks. The trams won't have toilets. Just as on the Newcastle lines that became Metro, the Altrincham and Bury lines which became Metrolink and the Metropolitan line which, at one point, had toilets and a restaurant car, people will adapt.

Some of the 1 car 153s have their toilets permanently locked out of use and they've been running on the network for around 4 years like that, and no-ones even batted an eyelid about it. Mostly on what was the Coryton to Radyr and now the Coryton to Penarth route which isn't as long as the TAM lines, but I think that demonstrates that for 99% of people it won't be an issue.

 

[tfw756rider]

Does anyone in here know when the 398 test runs are next likely to run?

(asking for a family member)

 

[Bob Price]

The paths are in for testing next week on these codes. This image below is from Realtime Trains and shows the paths planned. However there is no guarantee they will operate.

 

[tfw756rider]

The paths are in for testing next week on these codes. This is from Realtime Trains. However there is no guarantee they will operate.

Thanks, although that's not Realtime Trains. What site/app is that in fact?

 

[Bob Price]

Sorry you are right, me bad!! It's Raicam online. You have to pay a subscription for the timings. However you can see the timings in RTT as well.

 

[CapitalStar378]

The paths are in for testing next week on these codes. This is from Realtime Trains. However there is no guarantee they will operate.

Is Thorntonfield Carriage Depot actually Taffs Well Depot?

 

[MikePJ]

Here it is on RTT for tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-04-23/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

None of the trains ran today - quite possibly because of all the other disruption going on in Cardiff.

 

[Bob Price]

Is Thorntonfield Carriage Depot actually Taffs Well Depot?

It would seem that way. Not 100% certain as it's not listed that way on RTT

 

[chrisjo]

Is Thorntonfield Carriage Depot actually Taffs Well Depot?

No, it’s Stratford, East London. Software glitch?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No, it’s Stratford, East London. Software glitch?

I think so. Looking at the timings and thinking about what the rolling stock is!!

Are the location codes for the two very similar?

 

[tigermonstera]

Seems another test happened this afternoon to Treherbert and back: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:V12605/2025-04-23/detailed

Edit: another test is now running to Aberdare. I believe this is the first time they've ran an evening test?

 

[wickham]

No, it’s Stratford, East London. Software glitch?

Thornton Fields Statford has not existed for a number of years - it all disapeared under the present Olympic Park development. Orient Way (Temple Mills) sidings were the replacement for Thornton Fields.