TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[AdamWW]

That was changed back in the 1980's. There might be room at Heath Low level for a loop but not much chance of a second platform

What would block a second platform? Google Earth/Streetview seems to show housing backing onto a path at some height above track level and a fair amount of green space between that and the existing line/platform.

 

[Signal_Box]

I’ve been thinking about the plarform allocation at Queen Street and Central.

I honestly can’t see a situation where the 756s and 389s can be kept on separate platforms.

Is it a problem if they mix?

They’ll mix yes, but not permissibly due to the construction of the trams.

 

[PaulHarding150]

They’ll mix yes, but not permissibly due to the construction of the trams.

Sorry in layman’s terms?

 

[AdamWW]

Sorry in layman’s terms?

Presumably no more than one train at a time at a platform. (Edited: maybe only if one is a 398, unless a blanket ban is the only practical way of achieving this).
At the moment this is permitted in Cardiff Central.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Ah thank you.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder how long we’re looking at for these to enter service.

 

[StripeyNick]

I wonder how long we’re looking at for these to enter service.

If the Flirts are anything to go by, I'd expect at least 12 months. Think of all that mileage accumulation they went through followed by driver training......and they didn't have to rely on the infrastructure being in place.

I'm led to believe that the depot won't even be finished until sometime next year so that won't help matters

 

[CapitalStar378]

If the Flirts are anything to go by, I'd expect at least 12 months. Think of all that mileage accumulation they went through followed by driver training......and they didn't have to rely on the infrastructure being in place.

I'm led to believe that the depot won't even be finished until sometime next year so that won't help mattersI

With 31 units still to be delivered, the depot issues you mention, testing and driver training, it will definitely be a long road to service for the 398s. Also, TfW haven't been very efficient with anything unfortunately. I reckon May TT change at the earliest.

 

[Anonymous10]

With 31 units still to be delivered, the depot issues you mention, testing and driver training, it will definitely be a long road to service for the 398s. Also, TfW haven't been very efficient with anything unfortunately. I reckon May TT change at the earliest.

I'd expect may tt for a limited introduction on a single route given a uncompleted depot and ongoing works.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I'd expect may tt for a limited introduction on a single route given a uncompleted depot and ongoing works.

I'd expect may tt for a limited introduction on a single route given a uncompleted depot and ongoing works.

I read a little while ago in a rail magazine (can't remember which though I'm afraid) that 398s be entering service in 2025 which seems realistic.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I read a little while ago in a rail magazine (can't remember which though I'm afraid) that 398s be entering service in 2025 which seems realistic.

Are you sure that wasn’t 756s?

 

[Signal_Box]

Are you sure that wasn’t 756s?

I was thinking that as well 2025 for the 756s and 2024 for the trams.

There is still a huge amount of work to complete on the CVL at the moment to get even a token “electric” service using any of the new trains.

 

[cjp4]

In the Welsh Afairs Committe, James Price mentioned that new trains will be on the line back end of next year but hinted that it may use different electric stock (756s?) before the 398s to bring timetable forward.

Was about in response to a question about when the project will be completed 10:33 on the player if you wish to listen in linked here from parliament.tv

They will need to get thier communications perfect on that one so passengers know they are just temporary otherwise I guess toiletgate will rear its head again.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Are you sure that wasn’t 756s?

Don't think so. 2025 sounds realistic as many trains such as 196, 197, 777, 701 take at least 2 years to enter service from been delivered-plus they are battery and electric so more to test etc. The diesel only 231's took about 14 months from been delivered to first one in service so 2025 or maybe late 2024 possible for 398s

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In the Welsh Afairs Committe, James Price mentioned that new trains will be on the line back end of next year but hinted that it may use different electric stock (756s) before the 398s to bring timetable forward. Was about in response to a question about when the project will be completed 10:33 on the player if you wish to listen in.

Would be great to see 756s take over the knackered and insufficiently short 150s on via-Pontypridd services from December or so in the interim.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I think the 756s are very likely to start on the Pontypridd lines, there's a stopping sign for FLIRTs installed at Radyr, someone posted it on Facebook.

 

[Bob Price]

They may use them on Coryton to Radyr services via the City line and free up a Sprinter or two.

 

[AdamWW]

They may use them on Coryton to Radyr services via the City line and free up a Sprinter or two.

Most days it would be single 153s they'd be replacing which can't go north of Pontypridd so with 231s running the Rhymney Line it might not be all that useful.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Most days it would be single 153s they'd be replacing which can't go north of Pontypridd so with 231s running the Rhymney Line it might not be all that useful.

If they can replace 2 single 153s then would that work?
Or even if they just replace 1 153 is that not something they could just add to a 150/153 to have more space.
I'm not sure entirely how TfW's fleet works in that regard but I've seen how packed some trains are at Stockport, adding an extra car would surely help.

 

[positron]

Replacing a 153 could be useful because they've been having issues on the HoWL recently and that uses 153s?

However, I'm guessing it's 150s they're after to run some of the Ebbw/Maesteg services cause the 170s have to go at some point.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Replacing a 153 could be useful because they've been having issues on the HoWL recently and that uses 153s?

However, I'm guessing it's 150s they're after to run some of the Ebbw/Maesteg services cause the 170s have to go at some point.

You say “some of,” but the Cheltenham Maesteg is already now fully Sprinter apart from two diagrams, and Ebbw is 100% Sprinter. More chance of a 175 than a 170 going to Ebbw nowadays. Usually two 150s and a pair of 153s.

Two out of three 170s come out per day and those do the last remaining Cheltenham diagrams, which tend to do more work on the Cheltenham side than the Maesteg side.

 

[Signal_Box]

Would be great to see 756s take over the knackered and insufficiently short 150s on via-Pontypridd services from December or so in the interim.

Long after you and I are gone there WILL be a 150 still running round somewhere, there extremely reliable and will more often than not get you home even when their on their last legs.

A 231, 756 or 398 on the other hand….the 231s aren’t really shinning at the moment unfortunately.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Long after you and I are gone there WILL be a 150 still running round somewhere, there extremely reliable and will more often than not get you home even when their on their last legs.

A 231, 756 or 398 on the other hand….the 231s aren’t really shinning at the moment unfortunately.

I've not heard of any 231 issues, have I missed something?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've not heard of any 231 issues, have I missed something?

Something I’d personally recommend discussing here:

Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

Evening all, Came across this on Twitter this morning from Transport for Wales: you shouldn't need a Twitter login to read the post and the article. https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1419587294269296640 HTIOI, Dave

www.railforums.co.uk

Or even here:

Are Stadler products overrated?

I have only sampled 745s, but: 1) Good window alignment 2) Very nice seating 3) Quiet 4) Lovely ride 5) Excellent performance all outweigh the new-fangled level boarding for me, and all happen to be ticked boxes. I look forward to trying a 755. Stadler seems notably more innovative than other...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[AdamWW]

Long after you and I are gone there WILL be a 150 still running round somewhere, there extremely reliable and will more often than not get you home even when their on their last legs.

A 231, 756 or 398 on the other hand….the 231s aren’t really shinning at the moment unfortunately.

There have been trains in the past with initial teething problems but which settled down to be extremely reliable in the long term. If you are suggesting that 231s are always going to be unreliable I think it's a bit early for that. Do the Anglia FLIRTs have a reputation for unreliability? I thought they were doing OK.

And...getting back on topic...I think we have even less evidence as to whether 398s will turn out to be as reliable as a 150 or not.

 

[Signal_Box]

There have been trains in the past with initial teething problems but which settled down to be extremely reliable in the long term. If you are suggesting that 231s are always going to be unreliable I think it's a bit early for that. Do the Anglia FLIRTs have a reputation for unreliability? I thought they were doing OK.

And...getting back on topic...I think we have even less evidence as to whether 398s will turn out to be as reliable as a 150 or not.

“At the moment” my comment regards 231 reliability related to.

I do however standby my comment that I very much doubt any of the new generation or trains will see 30+ years service like the BR generation trains built in the 80s.

 

[bahnause]

Are they supposed to run 30+ years? It would be the upper limit for regional trains ordered these days. You can keep themin service for as ling as you like, but maintenance becomes very expensive. They accumulate miles much faster these days due to higher usage. Many of our newer units have made more miles in 10 years then the ones they replaced in 15-20 years.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I very much doubt any of the new generation or trains will see 30+ years service like the BR generation trains built in the 80s.

Good to know we’ll be keeping things nice and new and modern then.

 

[Signal_Box]

Are they supposed to run 30+ years? It would be the upper limit for regional trains ordered these days. You can keep themin service for as ling as you like, but maintenance becomes very expensive. They accumulate miles much faster these days due to higher usage. Many of our newer units have made more miles in 10 years then the ones they replaced in 15-20 years.

I take your point, the same applies to those 30+ year trains doing mileages they where never intended to do when designed and built.

Look at any mechanical vehicle from the pre train management system era, as long as huge amounts of money is thrown at tbh every 5/6 years they’ll keep on going as long as the money to repair the rot and rust is available.

Will a 231s operating system still be supported in 20 years time ?

 

[bahnause]

Electronic components from the 80s are much more of an issue as they can be quite unique and almost impossible to replace. "Modern" systems not so much. In general, they are using standardised interfaces, so you don't need to have a 1:1 replacement. You can plug in a newer hardware part providing the same function using the same interface.

An "operating system" doesn't need much support as long as you don't touch it. Even if you have to update it, it can be done. When the replacing of GTO converters with IGBT converters and lots of other changes on SBBs Re460 fleet took place, the software had to be adapted. These things were designed more than 20 years ago, but it is still possible to update them. That was a major change, not just putting on a few new parameters. Just don't throw away the manual.

I found this link provided by ABB regarding these changes:

ABB

Control technology

The new converter uses ABB’s AC800 PEC control platform, one of the most powerful control systems available. In terms of its interfaces, the MVB (multifunctional vehicle bus) is identical to the one it replaces. Functional adaptations are minimal (one of the few changes is support for the previously described disconnection of individual traction motors).

Internally however, the PEC offers powerful computational abilities. These are used to offer advanced control functionality for the dynamic behavior of traction motors and energy usage. The control software was created using Matlab Simulink®, supporting an efficient and intuitive implementation while also facilitating any future functional adaptations of the locomotives.