TFW Pacer withdrawals

[sd0733]

Didn't the 170s count ?

They do but they are all in service along side the existing fleet and there are still quite often shortages.
Maybe when all the PRM mods and refurbs are done it will help the situation.

 

[Anonymous10]

Just shows how understrength the fleet is honestly to replace the Pacers I recon they need about 30 trains beat case I reckon 40 to allow for repair ect

 

[43096]

Just shows how understrength the fleet is honestly to replace the Pacers I recon they need about 30 trains beat case I reckon 40 to allow for repair ect

The original exam question for TfW was to replace 30 x Pacers and 8 x 153s as they were not to be PRM modified. As the 153s have been modified, it's about the Pacers, which is 60 vehicles. Incoming stock is:
8 x 3-car 170 = 24 cars
4 x 2-car 170 = 8 cars
9 x 4-car 769 = 36 cars
5 x 3-car 230 displace 2 x 2-car 150 = 4-cars (available to replace Pacers)
Total incoming = 72 cars.

I'm not understanding the issue.

 

[Caaardiff]

Not all Pacers are in use each day. They have all been kept as backups with only a small amount planned to be used each day. Its very rare now to see a single or double pacer floating around, they tend to be attached to a 150 or 2 153s in the case of Rhymney.
The 170s freed up a number of 150s as well so they should be included. The borderlands 230s only frees up 2 150s but im not sure if they 230s will be appearing on the Blaenau line now as was originally planned.

The original exam question for TfW was to replace 30 x Pacers and 8 x 153s as they were not to be PRM modified. As the 153s have been modified, it's about the Pacers, which is 60 vehicles. Incoming stock is:
8 x 3-car 170 = 24 cars
4 x 2-car 170 = 8 cars
9 x 4-car 769 = 36 cars
5 x 3-car 230 displace 2 x 2-car 150 = 4-cars (available to replace Pacers)
Total incoming = 72 cars.

I'm not understanding the issue.

Which makes total sense in terms of like for like. But unless you really delve into the allocations its difficult to work out. 3 car 170s may have replaced a 2 car 150/pacer service on maesteg/Gloucester/Ebbw Vale. Similarly a number of peak Maesteg and Ebbw Vale trains were operated by 175s which are now doing mainly distance work and very little local work. So some of the 3 car 170 work is capacity expansion which was very much needed on Maesteg & Ebbw runs.
There's so the additional loco, which will eventually free up 1 or 2 175s/158s.
Ultimately its the Valleys services, Blaenau and Borderlands that are desperate for the 150s. Anything that can be done to free them up from HOW, West Wales and some crewe locals to boost capacity on the Valley's is a good thing.

 

[Anonymous10]

Not all Pacers are in use each day. They have all been kept as backups with only a small amount planned to be used each day. Its very rare now to see a single or double pacer floating around, they tend to be attached to a 150 or 2 153s in the case of Rhymney.
The 170s freed up a number of 150s as well so they should be included. The borderlands 230s only frees up 2 150s but im not sure if they 230s will be appearing on the Blaenau line now as was originally planned.



Which makes total sense in terms of like for like. But unless you really delve into the allocations its difficult to work out. 3 car 170s may have replaced a 2 car 150/pacer service on maesteg/Gloucester/Ebbw Vale. Similarly a number of peak Maesteg and Ebbw Vale trains were operated by 175s which are now doing mainly distance work and very little local work. So some of the 3 car 170 work is capacity expansion which was very much needed on Maesteg & Ebbw runs.
There's so the additional loco, which will eventually free up 1 or 2 175s/158s.
Ultimately its the Valleys services, Blaenau and Borderlands that are desperate for the 150s. Anything that can be done to free them up from HOW, West Wales and some crewe locals to boost capacity on the Valley's is a good thing.

Issue is is that they don't have anything else to send up West Wales only stuff which is prm and not a 150 is a 153 (too small in summer for any west Wales train due to tourists) 158 and 175 both of which are needed for long distance thus they have to stay put the 150s up West

 

[Jez]

I think the 170s on the Maesteg-Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale lines freed up 150s to replace pacers. Same as the 230s are going to do. Plus the 769s. But things haven't gone to plan.

 

[Cardiff123]

9 x 4-car 769 = 36 cars

I'm not understanding the issue.

I've highlighted the issue for you

 

[PHILIPE]

The Dispensation letters have been sent out by DFT and can be found here:-

Heavy rail fleets: 2020 targeted accessibility compliance

Documents outlining aspects of particular heavy rail fleet units which must be made more accessible by the legal deadline of 1 January 2020.

www.gov.uk

As we know carry on until 31 December without any clause about being attached to a PRM unit

 

[Colby James]

I hope at least fewer TFW 142’s and several 143’s of this kind are preserved.

most likely half will end up in wales and western regions but some elsewhere I suppose.

 

[Bikeman78]

The original exam question for TfW was to replace 30 x Pacers and 8 x 153s as they were not to be PRM modified. As the 153s have been modified, it's about the Pacers, which is 60 vehicles. Incoming stock is:
8 x 3-car 170 = 24 cars
4 x 2-car 170 = 8 cars
9 x 4-car 769 = 36 cars
5 x 3-car 230 displace 2 x 2-car 150 = 4-cars (available to replace Pacers)
Total incoming = 72 cars.

I'm not understanding the issue.

The 170s are all up and running but not a single Pacer has gone. So there's only another 40 cars to come to replace 60 Pacer cars.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not all Pacers are in use each day. They have all been kept as backups with only a small amount planned to be used each day. Its very rare now to see a single or double pacer floating around, they tend to be attached to a 150 or 2 153s in the case of Rhymney.

There are currently 18 Pacer diagrams, almost every four car includes a Pacer on the Valleys.

 

[Anonymous10]

I hope at least fewer TFW 142’s and several 143’s of this kind are preserved.

most likely half will end up in wales and western regions but some elsewhere I suppose.

We can only hope

 

[ValleyLines142]

A lot of double Pacers out in formation today! Hardly any Pacer+150 pairings.

 

[Anonymous10]

A lot of double Pacers out in formation today! Hardly any Pacer+150 pairings.

Likely will have came down to unit availability only so long you can run all 15x units for before they need maintenance

 

[PHILIPE]

A lot of double Pacers out in formation today! Hardly any Pacer+150 pairings.

TFW Website updated:-

Homepage | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfwrail.wales

Please be aware that our Class 142 and 143 trains do not feature fully accessible facilities, including toilets. These trains are operating coupled, or joined up with an accessible Class 150 train (accessibility details of Class 150 available below).

 

[Scottish-Exile]

As I've posted elsewhere:

142 012 & 142 079 (the ex Northern units TfW acquired last year) left Landore for the scrapyard earlier this week.

142 082 arrived at Landore from Canton this morning. It will be stripped of parts and then sent for scrap.


142 012 (55603) leaving Landore 6th Oct 2020

 

[Colby James]

Are you sure it’s 142082 and not 086 going to Landore for scrap

 

[Scottish-Exile]

Are you sure it’s 142082 and not 086 going to Landore for scrap

Quite sure

Although to be fair, we've just been asked not to strip anything until we get a final nod (see what I did there) from above.


142 082 @ Landore

 

[Cardiff123]

I guess 142082 will be the first TfW Pacer to be officially withdrawn from service for good?

As much as I'd love to see all of the Pacers gone asap, I still can't work out how TfW can manage without them in the era of Covid and extra capacity needed for social distancing

 

[Bikeman78]

I guess 142082 will be the first TfW Pacer to be officially withdrawn from service for good?

As much as I'd love to see all of the Pacers gone asap, I still can't work out how TfW can manage without them in the era of Covid and extra capacity needed for social distancing

Officially perhaps but there are four class 143 at Landore. I don't think any of them have carried passengers since May. It seems unlikely that they'll be brought back into service at this stage.

With the ongoing delays with the 230s and 769s I think it's inevitable that some Pacers will run next year.

 

[Cardiff123]

Officially perhaps but there are four class 143 at Landore. I don't think any of them have carried passengers since May. It seems unlikely that they'll be brought back into service at this stage.

With the ongoing delays with the 230s and 769s I think it's inevitable that some Pacers will run next year.

Well with nearly every 150 on the Valleys paired up with a Pacer at the moment, it'll be interesting to know what those 150s will be paired up with on 1st January 2021.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Well with nearly every 150 on the Valleys paired up with a Pacer at the moment, it'll be interesting to know what those 150s will be paired up with on 1st January 2021.

There's actually more Pacer pairs and double 150s than Pacers+150s at the moment.

 

[rich.davies]

As I've posted elsewhere:

142 012 & 142 079 (the ex Northern units TfW acquired last year) left Landore for the scrapyard earlier this week.

142 082 arrived at Landore from Canton this morning. It will be stripped of parts and then sent for scrap.

View attachment 84445
142 012 (55603) leaving Landore 6th Oct 2020

Just out of interest, where is the scrap Yard?

 

[PHILIPE]

Just out of interest, where is the scrap Yard?

This one was at Hereford

 

[GWRrrr]

There's actually more Pacer pairs and double 150s than Pacers+150s at the moment.

Why is that? GWR have paired their 143's around Exeter with compliant units so at least the train as a whole is compliant. Why haven't TfW done the same?

 

[PHILIPE]

Why is that? GWR have paired their 143's around Exeter with compliant units so at least the train as a whole is compliant. Why haven't TfW done the same?

Because the DFT dispensation states that GWR have to and TFW don't

 

[GWRrrr]

Because the DFT dispensation states that GWR have to and TFW don't

OK. Next question. Why would the dispensation be different?

 

[Sion John]

OK. Next question. Why would the dispensation be different?

Because TfW didn't have enough sprinters at the time and only now all the 150s 153s are upgraded well EMR and greater anglia won't be because those 153s are only here until 769s goes into service and there are different owners the GA and EMR 153s who made them

 

[PHILIPE]

OK. Next question. Why would the dispensation be different?

Because they are two different TOCs. A TOC applies to the DFT for consideration for any dispensations according to their requirements
and they are then dealt with on a TOC basis rather rather than a standard one across the board.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Why is that? GWR have paired their 143's around Exeter with compliant units so at least the train as a whole is compliant. Why haven't TfW done the same?

It is rather odd. Especially considering the Bay Line is currently booked for a pair of 150s!