TFW Stock Shortages

[Nick Ashwell]

What happens then if dispensation has not been granted and TfW continue to use them for the sake of continuing to run the services they provide?

Better to run the trains with whatever they've got until further notice,than cancel the many services they already run that utilise the Pacers and LHS trains.

Government interference has caused this impending mess.
The PRM laws for trains should only have been made law for new trains.
As it is,most operators now have to mod their own trains by law or....buy a new fleet of trains!
Astonishing how we let the government interfere.I thought the railways were privatised.
As long as all trains are safe to use and turn up on time,who cares about the toilets.

You really think that six years wasn't enough notice for ROSCOs to make their trains compatible for the requirements? Why shouldn't those with disabilities have the same freedom to use public transport as the able bodied?

The issue here lies with the fact that Arriva had a zero growth franchise and therefore it wasn't their problem. WAG tried to mitigate it somewhat with the orders for 769s and 230s but those programs have been abject failures. Not trying to flog a dead horse but the problem lies with TfW franchise being made devolved with such a short timeframe between the beginning of the franchise and the deadline. If WAG/TfW RS had been sensible they'd have immediately started sending Pacers for Pacer Evolution mods but that wasn't politically viable. If the 769s and 230s had come through as planned we wouldn't be having these problems now. It is not the fault of the legislation and governance but rather the failure of the industry!

 

[Chris217]

The failure is an industry one yes because it is privatised.
In an area of poor growth like TfW have inherited,it must have been realised even then a 100% PRM mod fleet was a big ask
by the deadline date.

So derrogation must be granted until further notice to keep the services running.

There is absolutely no growth in cancelled services or rail replacement buses!

But we all know common sense doesn't exist in todays railway politics.

 

[Cardiff123]

According to news articles last week, TfW will know by this Friday (which is 'the end of November') if they have the derogations they need to carry on running Pacers and any non-compliant 150s/153s into next year.

Whether we'll find out by the end of this week/early next week if the derogations have been granted is another matter

 

[johnnychips]

If WAG/TfW RS had been sensible they'd have immediately started sending Pacers for Pacer Evolution mods but that wasn't politically viable.

I was on 144e 144012 recently. There were cracks in the ceiling and water running through the gap between the windows and the body shell. Can’t remember when it was done but it has not lasted well. The disabled toilet was broken and, this being Rail UK, I have to mention that the new seats are rock hard.

 

[158820]

There are 14 full cancellations and 5 part cancellations listed on tfw journeycheck for tomorrow all down to more trains than usual needing repairs which is pretty normal for leaf fall season but this week 3 different routes are closed with bus replacement. Conwy valley, Milford Haven branch and Cardiff to Barry / Bridgend. Not good

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

There are 14 full cancellations and 5 part cancellations listed on tfw journeycheck for tomorrow all down to more trains than usual needing repairs which is pretty normal for leaf fall season but this week 3 different routes are closed with bus replacement. Conwy valley, Milford Haven branch and Cardiff to Barry / Bridgend. Not good

To be fair, the Milford Haven branch is closed for planned work by Network Rail not because of stock shortages.

 

[sftfan1909]

The Barry route is also only shut on weekday evenings.

 

[158820]

I didnt know Barry was only closed at night but my points still stands tfw has a lower unit requirement this week and is still cannot resource the daily diagrams. Presumably waiting for wheelsets for pacers as production had stopped is one of the issues.

 

[PHILIPE]

I didnt know Barry was only closed at night but my points still stands tfw has a lower unit requirement this week and is still cannot resource the daily diagrams. Presumably waiting for wheelsets for pacers as production had stopped is one of the issues.

According to a Twitter reply last week there were 6 "square wheeled" units (classes not specified) out of service and one with tree collision damage (150245) . GWR are also hit with their 143s and awaiting wheel set production to be started up again

 

[PHILIPE]

There are 14 full cancellations and 5 part cancellations listed on tfw journeycheck for tomorrow all down to more trains than usual needing repairs which is pretty normal for leaf fall season but this week 3 different routes are closed with bus replacement. Conwy valley, Milford Haven branch and Cardiff to Barry / Bridgend. Not good

The Conwy Valley is closed due to Engineering Work so one less unit to provide. Most of these cancellations can almost be a Cut and Paste on a daily basis but the Heart of Wales is a new one. Of course many of the services can be part one diagram

 

[anamyd]

The 1634 from Cardiff Central to Ebbw Vale today was worked by 143605 on its own and an "overspill" replacement bus. About 140 people were waiting on platform 0, about 130 of which all squeezed onto the Pacer until it was rammed full, and the remaining 10 or so people got on the bus.

 

[Sion John]

The 1634 from Cardiff Central to Ebbw Vale today was worked by 143605 on its own and an "overspill" replacement bus. About 140 people were waiting on platform 0, about 130 of which all squeezed onto the Pacer until it was rammed full, and the remaining 10 or so people got on the bus.

I wouldn't like to be in that bus lol

 

[Cardiff123]

Do we really think come 15th December Pacers will be confined to just the Rhymney line as planned? They work so many different routes in South Wales still it's hard to believe that they'll suddenly disappear from everywhere else and just work Penarth - Rhymney.

 

[Sion John]

Do we really think come 15th December Pacers will be confined to just the Rhymney line as planned? They work so many different routes in South Wales still it's hard to believe that they'll suddenly disappear from everywhere else and just work Penarth - Rhymney.

If a upgraded 150 is with it then yes

 

[Cardiff123]

If a upgraded 150 is with it then yes

TfW's plan is for Pacers to work in pairs on the Rhymney line, not coupled to 150s.

 

[Sion John]

TfW's plan is for Pacers to work in pairs on the Rhymney line, not coupled to 150s.

That's bad because northern and GWR are them with a PRM 150

 

[krus_aragon]

That's bad because northern and GWR are them with a PRM 150

The trouble is: if you paired up every TfW Pacer with a 150, you'd have 30 Sprinter/Pacer pairs and just six 150s left over to operate other diagrams; not enough to stretch out over all the services.

 

[Sion John]

The trouble is: if you paired up every TfW Pacer with a 150, you'd have 30 Sprinter/Pacer pairs and just six 150s left over to operate other diagrams; not enough to stretch out over all the services.

Thats true

 

[anamyd]

The trouble is: if you paired up every TfW Pacer with a 150, you'd have 30 Sprinter/Pacer pairs and just six 150s left over to operate other diagrams; not enough to stretch out over all the services.

It would be more like 18 Sprinter-Pacer combos (at most 20 by the end of the year) because that's how many of TfW's 150s have been PRM modified!

 

[Sion John]

According to a Twitter reply last week there were 6 "square wheeled" units (classes not specified) out of service and one with tree collision damage (150245) . GWR are also hit with their 143s and awaiting wheel set production to be started up again

150245 is a TfW unit the bad half is badly damaged we might get a 150/9 Because the other half is fine im not saying it will happen tho. But for GWR pacers the company that made them has stopped making them to have new wheels because they thought pacers was going by 2020 but there not so if they get too bad they will have to be out of service until they make them again and i know 143617 is bad

 

[The Prisoner]

Any idea when the new TfW stock lands? Still think they missed a trick not bringing in some 4 car HSTs to cover long distance so as free up other units to cascade down to local services. I know there is a PRM mod issue, but surely spending on future proofing 5-10 HST short rakes to operate the Marches services for say five years would help them provide a full service, take the pressure away from the new train deliveries and lose the pacers sooner.

 

[PHILIPE]

Any idea when the new TfW stock lands? Still think they missed a trick not bringing in some 4 car HSTs to cover long distance so as free up other units to cascade down to local services. I know there is a PRM mod issue, but surely spending on future proofing 5-10 HST short rakes to operate the Marches services for say five years would help them provide a full service, take the pressure away from the new train deliveries and lose the pacers sooner.

Stock is progressively arriving in the form of 170s and 769s (sometime). The discussion on HSTs has been done to death on this Forum and, although originally floated, the idea was quickly abandoned. There would be no PRM HSTs available and all drivers in the TOC would have to be trained from scratch and whcih would take 3 weeks and spread across several Depots. Brand new stock won't show until 2022.

 

[Sion John]

Any idea when the new TfW stock lands? Still think they missed a trick not bringing in some 4 car HSTs to cover long distance so as free up other units to cascade down to local services. I know there is a PRM mod issue, but surely spending on future proofing 5-10 HST short rakes to operate the Marches services for say five years would help them provide a full service, take the pressure away from the new train deliveries and lose the pacers sooner.

I believe TFW short HSTs isn't happening because TfW have got 67s ran by ex MK virgin trains east coast and 82s and running in the day time to inseard of 175s from December timetable

 

[Sion John]

Stock is progressively arriving in the form of 170s and 769s (sometime). The discussion on HSTs has been done to death on this Forum and, although originally floated, the idea was quickly abandoned. There would be no PRM HSTs available and all drivers in the TOC would have to be trained from scratch and whcih would take 3 weeks and spread across several Depots. Brand new stock won't show until 2022.

Exactly but at least we have more trains now

 

[The Prisoner]

Stock is progressively arriving in the form of 170s and 769s (sometime). The discussion on HSTs has been done to death on this Forum and, although originally floated, the idea was quickly abandoned. There would be no PRM HSTs available and all drivers in the TOC would have to be trained from scratch and whcih would take 3 weeks and spread across several Depots. Brand new stock won't show until 2022.

Appreciate it is too late for it now to make a difference, hence the past tense in them having missed a trick. Also appreciate there are a couple of Mk IV rakes on the way - it just seems like they need more judging by all the cancellations.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Llandudno Junction to Chester services

16.25 1D95 & 18.39 1D70 have been cancelled almost every day for weeks amongst others.

 

[anamyd]

Any idea when the new TfW stock lands? Still think they missed a trick not bringing in some 4 car HSTs to cover long distance so as free up other units to cascade down to local services. I know there is a PRM mod issue, but surely spending on future proofing 5-10 HST short rakes to operate the Marches services for say five years would help them provide a full service, take the pressure away from the new train deliveries and lose the pacers sooner.

the new stock (148 units) lands in 2022-2023. TfW were supposed to have had the 769s and 230s in service by now, but as both those fleets are delayed until well into 2020, TfW are having to rely on (in total) the ex-Arriva fleet + the partially completed PRM programme, the ex-GWR 153s, the 170s (from the 15th of December), and PRM non-compliance dispensation for the Pacers, up to 18 150s and 9-10 153s, which they hope to get by the end of this month.

 

[Cambrian359]

Given the problems in new stock introduction across the uk would it not be wise to have a more realistic in service date of 2023-2025 for TfW new fleets with the intention of keeping existing stock on until 2024-2025.
if existing stock gets Promised to other TOCS from 2022 onwards then we could well end up in a serious situation especially if 158s go but ertms fitted replacements are delayed.

 

[Envoy]

I see that over in East Anglia that it is 9 months since the first Class 745 Stadler First arrived and yet none have entered service. This does not bode well for Wales?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-745-stadler-flirts-intercity-trains.191504/page-7

 

[OrangeJuice]

I see that over in East Anglia that it is 9 months since the first Class 745 Stadler First arrived and yet none have entered service. This does not bode well for Wales?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-745-stadler-flirts-intercity-trains.191504/page-7

Surely it's the CAF DMU's at Northern and then the progress on the West Midlands fleet and their introduction which will be more relevant to the progress/on time introduction of the new fleet.

Although even with Northern it hasn't been the smoothest start