TfW Train Cancelled Because of too Many People Joining/Alighting The Service

[craigybagel]

No, TfWs workforce are doing the best they can, with the resources their management, aka the Welsh Government, gives them!

Their staff have to cope with constant negativity from people, frankly like me sometimes, who are peeved off at the political side.

DfT must take some blame for allowing the no growth Arriva franchise but the Welsh Government have had control for long enough to not blame it on the resources their given, especially considering some of the unnecessary spending in certain areas.

I'm not sure what exactly anyone could have done to make things better any sooner - the new fleets were ordered straight away, and a huge recruitment drive was started. Unfortunately we're still waiting to see the fruits of these - but as frustrating as it is almost all of the current problems can be put down to the old zero growth franchise.

The Welsh Government could have spec'd different trains of desired, but went with what they went with, for better or worse. I'm excited for FLIRT but then I live in Chepstow so would be biased.

Extra capacity is what TfW needs and the new fleet will do it. The only concern is the lack of space for future growth given how, rightly IMHO, anti-car the Welsh Government is. If they want to end car usage for many, TfW needs more money!!!

I'm confused as to why people seem to think there's no room for future growth - given that the new fleet is going to be much larger than the fleet it replaces.

 

[Cardiff123]

No, TfWs workforce are doing the best they can, with the resources their management, aka the Welsh Government, gives them!

Their staff have to cope with constant negativity from people, frankly like me sometimes, who are peeved off at the political side.

DfT must take some blame for allowing the no growth Arriva franchise but the Welsh Government have had control for long enough to not blame it on the resources their given, especially considering some of the unnecessary spending in certain areas.

The Welsh Government could have spec'd different trains of desired, but went with what they went with, for better or worse. I'm excited for FLIRT but then I live in Chepstow so would be biased.

Extra capacity is what TfW needs and the new fleet will do it. The only concern is the lack of space for future growth given how, rightly IMHO, anti-car the Welsh Government is. If they want to end car usage for many, TfW needs more money!!!

It's only since Welsh Govt took control of the W&B franchise that we've seen any real investment in services in Wales, since the Sprinter fleet was introduced by BR in the 1980s. The DfT were in control under ATW for 15 years and through that whole time invested a few hundred thousand in painting stations and some car parks. Welsh Govt and TfW have invested hundreds of millions since 2018.

Are you aware how long it takes to order, design, build, deliver, test, accumulate fault free running miles, and train crew on new and cascaded trains? Orders were placed for TfW's new fleet in 2018, just before the new franchise started.

Since 2018, after Wales getting no new trains since the 175s in the early 2000s, along with ordering a complete fleet replacement, TfW has brought into the franchise:

37s + Mk2s a few months after taking over to provide immediate short term capacity relief on valleys commuter services, to cover for the failed 769 project.
18 x 153s
12 x 170s
9 x 769s
37 x Mk 4 coaches
Refurbished the entire existing fleet to a high standard

Given there is a chronic shortage of DMUs in Britain, due to years of inaction by the DfT under successive UK Governments, please point me to what other short term DMUs, that are compatible with the TfW network and PRM compliant, that staff were already trained up on, that TfW could have brought in since 2018, over and above the trains listed.

 

[Caaardiff]

This does not bode well for the future. So, what happens if these 67’s conk out? Who is going to rescue them? Will a spare 67 & crew be stationed at say Shrewsbury and also have the ability to rescue a freight? At least if the whole fleet were 197’s there would be less chance of a breakdown and a nearby train could rescue a failed set. Could a 196 rescue a 197 and vice versa on the Birmingham to Shrewsbury line? Then we have the ancient 153’s being retained for the Heart of Wales. Who can rescue them apart from another 153 that might be miles away?

In exactly the same way that is usually done. The other 153/150 coming the other way is usually the quickest option. In other circumstances there will likely be at least one spare at the other end of the line (Carmarthen or Shrewsbury)

No, TfWs workforce are doing the best they can, with the resources their management, aka the Welsh Government, gives them!

Their staff have to cope with constant negativity from people, frankly like me sometimes, who are peeved off at the political side.

DfT must take some blame for allowing the no growth Arriva franchise but the Welsh Government have had control for long enough to not blame it on the resources their given, especially considering some of the unnecessary spending in certain areas.

The Welsh Government could have spec'd different trains of desired, but went with what they went with, for better or worse. I'm excited for FLIRT but then I live in Chepstow so would be biased.

Extra capacity is what TfW needs and the new fleet will do it. The only concern is the lack of space for future growth given how, rightly IMHO, anti-car the Welsh Government is. If they want to end car usage for many, TfW needs more money!!!

It's no secret the previous franchise was underestimated in a very big way which the effects are still being seen.
The issue is that TfW has continued with it's planned for small growth while utilising an ageing fleet that has actually to a point, shrunk. It would have been better to have provided a reliable and consistent service with slack in the fleet to account for maintenance issues.
To name but a few of the issues experience:
- Pacers leaving
- Continual refurb programs, of PRM compliant units as well as internal refurbishment units of all fleet types
- A less than successful 769 program
- An even lesser successful 230 program
- 170's have been great for the lines they work on, but not enabling clearance for them to work other lines has led to a very good fleet type being under utilised, because the future saviour were 769's and 230's (See above)

TfW might as well write off the rest of this summer, there is no hope of improvement. Autumn could cause even more fleet issues but hopefully demand will be lower than summer. Then HOPEFULLY new fleets will start to be introduced and massively ease the pressure. By December there should be more Mk4's and 197's introduced, along with the possibility of some 231's on Rhymney lines. But i'll believe that when i see the wheels turning with passengers on.
The main issue is political pressure to run a railway network that those in politics don't understand how it's run.

 

[185]

This link shows a replacement service to Milford Haven was put on from Cardiff. Unfortunately the Man Picc train arrived late so people for the West missed the connection

Disgraceful behaviour given the set on 1Z39 they re-started from Cardiff was booked to sit around at Swansea for 20 minutes - which would have absorbed that delay off the 1V39 train from Manchester.

Time for a clearout of that control in Cardiff.. they are making all the same mistakes as ATW, including sending 153s on long distance Manchester services.

 

[craigybagel]

Time for a clearout of that control in Cardiff.. they are making all the same mistakes as ATW, including sending 153s on long distance Manchester services.

What do you propose they use instead?

 

[Envoy]

I note that Mk4 coaches are being sent for scrap. Being as these are the same type that will/are being used by the 67 hauled trains, would it not be prudent to acquire some surplus Mk4’s so that when events are on, trains can be lengthened from the 5 coach sets that will normally operate? Retaining additional coaches would also mean that if passenger numbers increase, they have the stock to lengthen the trains.

 

[Caaardiff]

I note that Mk4 coaches are being sent for scrap. Being as these are the same type that will/are being used by the 67 hauled trains, would it not be prudent to acquire some surplus Mk4’s so that when events are on, trains can be lengthened from the 5 coach sets that will normally operate? Retaining additional coaches would also mean that if passenger numbers increase, they have the stock to lengthen the trains.

5 coach trains will be plenty for events. There will also be an increase in frequency on many routes. Having coaches sat around doing nothing except for 5-10 days a year is a pointless additional cost. I would have thought lengthening even further than 5 coaches adds more logistical issues for the many short platforms across TfW's network.

Disgraceful behaviour given the set on 1Z39 they re-started from Cardiff was booked to sit around at Swansea for 20 minutes - which would have absorbed that delay off the 1V39 train from Manchester.

Time for a clearout of that control in Cardiff.. they are making all the same mistakes as ATW, including sending 153s on long distance Manchester services.

All Manchester services are booked 175's so it's likely there was no choice for them to sub it for 2 153's.

 

[wobman]

I note that Mk4 coaches are being sent for scrap. Being as these are the same type that will/are being used by the 67 hauled trains, would it not be prudent to acquire some surplus Mk4’s so that when events are on, trains can be lengthened from the 5 coach sets that will normally operate? Retaining additional coaches would also mean that if passenger numbers increase, they have the stock to lengthen the trains.

I've asked about this the scrap carriages are not in a good condition apparently, tfw are getting the one in a good condition.

 

[Runningaround]

In exactly the same way that is usually done. The other 153/150 coming the other way is usually the quickest option. In other circumstances there will likely be at least one spare at the other end of the line (Carmarthen or Shrewsbury)


It's no secret the previous franchise was underestimated in a very big way which the effects are still being seen.
The issue is that TfW has continued with it's planned for small growth while utilising an ageing fleet that has actually to a point, shrunk. It would have been better to have provided a reliable and consistent service with slack in the fleet to account for maintenance issues.
To name but a few of the issues experience:
- Pacers leaving
- Continual refurb programs, of PRM compliant units as well as internal refurbishment units of all fleet types
- A less than successful 769 program
- An even lesser successful 230 program
- 170's have been great for the lines they work on, but not enabling clearance for them to work other lines has led to a very good fleet type being under utilised, because the future saviour were 769's and 230's (See above)

TfW might as well write off the rest of this summer, there is no hope of improvement. Autumn could cause even more fleet issues but hopefully demand will be lower than summer. Then HOPEFULLY new fleets will start to be introduced and massively ease the pressure. By December there should be more Mk4's and 197's introduced, along with the possibility of some 231's on Rhymney lines. But i'll believe that when i see the wheels turning with passengers on.
The main issue is political pressure to run a railway network that those in politics don't understand how it's run.

We'll be hearing advice that trains will be busier than usual for the Autumn Rugby internationals. In other words ''Trains are as busy as they always have, we just haven't addressed it''. It's only been 25 years since privatisation. Will they get it within 30 years?

 

[Runningaround]

5 coach trains will be plenty for events. There will also be an increase in frequency on many routes. Having coaches sat around doing nothing except for 5-10 days a year is a pointless additional cost. I would have thought lengthening even further than 5 coaches adds more logistical issues for the many short platforms across TfW's network.


All Manchester services are booked 175's so it's likely there was no choice for them to sub it for 2 153's.

There are far more days than that they need them for how about all summer or using them to increase service. This is a lame excuse, and used since privatisation and peddled further here. ''We can't do more'', ''Just because we can't have spare capacity''. But you can every other country does it and so did we in the past.

 

[Dai Corner]

There are far more days than that they need them for how about all summer or using them to increase service. This is a lame excuse, and used since privatisation and peddled further here. ''We can't do more'', ''Just because we can't have spare capacity''. But you can every other country does it and so did we in the past.

Do you think it will or should change now railway operations are nationalised again in Wales?

 

[craigybagel]

But for the umpteenth time - and indeed the second time on this page of this thread alone - the overall fleet available every day is going to be a lot bigger than it is today. People are looking at solutions to problems that solutions have already been implemented for - it's just unfortunate that it takes some time for the effects to kick in.

 

[Cowley]

We feel that this thread has probably served it’s purpose now. Thanks for your contributions everyone.