TfW withdrawals (170/175 all gone, now just class 15x to go)

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Has anyone seen them used on Manchester to Cardiff runs on Sundays recently? I am heading down on the late May bank hol and concerned ! I have endured them on this run before, it wasnt pleasant for over 3hrs !! Appreciate it being a bank hol am as likely to end up on a bus !!

They haven't reached Manchester in months upon months, thank god.

 

[Jez]

Has anyone seen them used on Manchester to Cardiff runs on Sundays recently? I am heading down on the late May bank hol and concerned ! I have endured them on this run before, it wasnt pleasant for over 3hrs !! Appreciate it being a bank hol am as likely to end up on a bus !!

There are no Sprinters booked for the Manchesters on a Sunday now. I think they are all 197s apart from the 2 Mk4 diagrams.

 

[theblackwatch]

150240 will be heading the other way as its C6 expires today. Ironically, it was the third unit on the ill fated Craven Arms train. It was undamaged and back in service soon after.

Any idea if this has moved to Landore yet please?

 

[Anonymous10]

Any idea if this has moved to Landore yet please?

There's a move in which was due to leave 11:48, which is yet to depart, paved as a sprinter so maybe that?

 

[JakeMurphy]

And have any of the ones at landore been taken for scrap?

 

[BillStampy]

There's a move in which was due to leave 11:48, which is yet to depart, paved as a sprinter so maybe that?

150240, 153323, 153369 according to RTT, 44 minutes late off Canton.

 

[Cardiff123]

TfW have told me that the 150s are staying put on Rhymney - Barry - Bridgend services until the 756s are in service on Rhymney services, which is dependent on the 398s entering full passenger service on the TAM lines.

So the 150s have at least 18 months left on Rhymney - Bridgend. And today almost every Caerphilly to Barry/Bridgend service is a 150.

To quote a "normal" who I spoke to last week "Why do I see all the new trains going to Barry Island, but whenever I get on a train to Llantwit it's an old diesel train?"

 

[AdamWW]

I thought that going flat out for up to 900 miles a day would finish them off, but it didn't. They just got on with it. The MTIN at the end of 2023 was about the same as the previous year. The improved reliability also applies to the Coryton line. Now that the 153s are gone, the daily routine of turning several trains short seems to have eased off.

TfW have done various things recently to improve performance on the Coryton Line.

Decreased dwell times on a 150 vs a 153 might be helping, but I really don't think it's down to 150s being more reliable than 153s.

Instead of trains being turned short of Coryton due to "congestion" instead there are frequent outright cancellations (or replacements with a single 153) due a "a failure on this train".

They generally seem to go out of service at Central so presumably either they have failures they can run with but TfW would rather they didn't, or they're being pinched to replace something else.

 

[Bikeman78]

150235 went to Landore this morning. Caught me by surprise that one.

 

[AdamWW]

Instead of trains being turned short of Coryton due to "congestion" instead there are frequent outright cancellations (or replacements with a single 153) due a "a failure on this train".

They generally seem to go out of service at Central so presumably either they have failures they can run with but TfW would rather they didn't, or they're being pinched to replace something else.

And once more, a train to Coryton "cancelled due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"

And that's with presumably a few more trains than normal going spare given that nothing is running North of Caerphilly at the moment.

So my anecdotal view is that the 150s are not being at all reliable at the moment.

 

[Adlee Turner]

150235 went to Landore this morning. Caught me by surprise that one.

Along with 153362

 

[Bikeman78]

And once more, a train to Coryton "cancelled due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"

And that's with presumably a few more trains than normal going spare given that nothing is running North of Caerphilly at the moment.

So my anecdotal view is that the 150s are not being at all reliable at the moment.

The 150s nearly always meet or exceed their planned availability target. North of Caerphilly being shut doesn't help much. Just means lots of spare class 231s.

 

[AdamWW]

The 150s nearly always meet or exceed their planned availability target. North of Caerphilly being shut doesn't help much. Just means lots of spare class 231s.

When day after day I see cancellations blamed on train failures or more trains than usual needing repairs it makes me think that the trains aren't reliable enough to run the timetabled service.

From my point of view the metric that matters isn't an availability target, it's whether it's possible to run the full timetable or not. And at the moment the answer seems to be no.

What am I missing here?

Are there too few 150s to run the full service unless the planned availability is exceeded?

Or are they being taken off to replace other types of traction that have failed?

Or are the cancellations due to something else and TfW are giving the wrong reason for them?

 

[Anonymous10]

When day after day I see cancellations blamed on train failures or more trains than usual needing repairs it makes me think that the trains aren't reliable enough to run the timetabled service.

From my point of view the metric that matters isn't an availability target, it's whether it's possible to run the full timetable or not. And at the moment the answer seems to be no.

What am I missing here?

Are there too few 150s to run the full service unless the planned availability is exceeded?

Or are they being taken off to replace other types of traction that have failed?

Or are the cancellations due to something else and TfW are giving the wrong reason for them?

If a 197 fails at cardiff now the only Traction is a 197 or 150, previously 153s were sent in their place.

 

[Jez]

When day after day I see cancellations blamed on train failures or more trains than usual needing repairs it makes me think that the trains aren't reliable enough to run the timetabled service.

From my point of view the metric that matters isn't an availability target, it's whether it's possible to run the full timetable or not. And at the moment the answer seems to be no.

What am I missing here?

Are there too few 150s to run the full service unless the planned availability is exceeded?

Or are they being taken off to replace other types of traction that have failed?

Or are the cancellations due to something else and TfW are giving the wrong reason for them?

150s are also used on the Heart of Wales and Crewe local at the moment which has impacted things. Next week the South of the HOWL is closed for 3 weeks so hopefully that might free up a 150 or 2.

Im unsure how many 150s are still able to run in service and how many diagrams there are currently?

The 150s nearly always meet or exceed their planned availability target. North of Caerphilly being shut doesn't help much. Just means lots of spare class 231s.

Yes the 150s are very very reliable. I will say that for them. You are far more likely to see a 197 or MK4 fail from what ive seen over the last 18 months or so!

 

[Rhydgaled]

When day after day I see cancellations blamed on train failures or more trains than usual needing repairs it makes me think that the trains aren't reliable enough to run the timetabled service.

From my point of view the metric that matters isn't an availability target, it's whether it's possible to run the full timetable or not. And at the moment the answer seems to be no.

I've just done a web search which dug up an article dated 1st December 2022 suggesting that 15,000 MTIN MAA is/was "generally reckoned to be the level of reliability at which ‘fleet’ ceases to be a significant factor in an operator’s performance." (If I recall correctly, MTIN = Miles per Technical Incident Notice and MAA = Moving Annual Average.) I don't know if the MTIN figures are available publicly anymore; anyone know if any of TfW's fleets are achieving 15,000 MTIN or better at the moment?

 

[Cardiff123]

The 150s nearly always meet or exceed their planned availability target. North of Caerphilly being shut doesn't help much. Just means lots of spare class 231s.

To the layman, it's frustrating why TfW don't start training south Wales mainline drivers on 231s now to allow them to run on the VoG. Those drivers will need to drive 231s eventually anyway, so why not train them now? Being stuck on a packed, noisy, 2 car 150 to Barry and the Vale in the heat is no fun when 231s could be running on the line.

I don't have any love for 150s, they are life expired and should be gone already. When I was waiting at station a few weeks ago, a 150 pulled in going in the opposite direction belching out black diesel fumes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't have any love for 150s, they are life expired and should be gone already. When I was waiting at station a few weeks ago, a 150 pulled in going in the opposite direction belching out black diesel fumes.

Same. Get them gone.

 

[Bikeman78]

To the layman, it's frustrating why TfW don't start training south Wales mainline drivers on 231s now to allow them to run on the VoG. Those drivers will need to drive 231s eventually anyway, so why not train them now? Being stuck on a packed, noisy, 2 car 150 to Barry and the Vale in the heat is no fun when 231s could be running on the line.

I don't have any love for 150s, they are life expired and should be gone already. When I was waiting at station a few weeks ago, a 150 pulled in going in the opposite direction belching out black diesel fumes.

Moving 231s to the VoG would make little difference to the number of 150s in service. There would be more of them to Barry Island. Not much will change until the tram trains start running.

 

[Cardiff123]

Moving 231s to the VoG would make little difference to the number of 150s in service. There would be more of them to Barry Island. Not much will change until the tram trains start running.

It can be argued that the extra capacity of the 231s make them more suitable for the 1tph Bridgend services rather than the 3tph Barry Island services.
Unless of course there are plans to run double 150s to Bridgend once 150s are freed up when Penarth goes over to 756s.

 

[EveningStarr]

150242 back in service today, working Ponty-Bays. Made up of 52242 and 57279.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W18076/2025-05-07/detailed

 

[Jez]

150242 looking really shiny and clean there. Almost like a new train lol.

 

[The_Train]

150242 back in service today, working Ponty-Bays. Made up of 52242 and 57279.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W18076/2025-05-07/detailed

View attachment 179525View attachment 179526View attachment 179527

Looks like its got another 20 years left to give there

 

[BillStampy]

Bit ironic that these two will reunite so quickly...!

 

[tfw756rider]

(Video shows 150279, a "hybrid" unit formed of vehicles 57242 + 52279, both in unbranded Transport for Wales red and white livery, passing through Llanharan railway station).

150242 back in service today, working Ponty-Bays. Made up of 52242 and 57279.

Now that both 150279 and 150242 are back in service, could the "wrong" vehicles be swapped back, or would that cause complications in terms of exams/overhauls/mileages?

 

[Anonymous10]

Now that both 170279 and 150242 are back in service, could the "wrong" vehicles be swapped back, or would that cause complications in terms of exams/overhauls/mileages?

Given it would take both units out of service and it's known one unit was in use several months prior to the other its likely more hassle than it's worth.

 

[tfw756rider]

Given it would take both units out of service and it's known one unit was in use several months prior to the other its likely more hassle than it's worth.

Fair enough, yeah.

 

[DelW]

Now that both 170279 and 150242 are back in service, could the "wrong" vehicles be swapped back, or would that cause complications in terms of exams/overhauls/mileages?

You've twice referred to 150279 as 170279, it would reduce possible confusion if you could edit your posts to show the correct number

 

[EveningStarr]

Now that both 170279 and 150242 are back in service, could the "wrong" vehicles be swapped back, or would that cause complications in terms of exams/overhauls/mileages?

There are decoration differences between the two too - current form of 150279 is unique in that it has a grey band above the windows instead of red like the other TfW 150s. For completeness sake, it would be nice if the proper formations are reassembled, but then the 175 numbers were all over the place, with some units made up entirely of cars from other sets! As both 242 and 279 are presumably in best condition of all TfW 150s, they may be the last in service or indeed see life beyond TfW and could be reassembled/repainted then.

 

[Jez]

150280 didnt sound very well when i was on it earlier. The engine wasnt working in the rear carriage (it was very quiet) and most of the lights were off (not an issue on a very sunny day) but then at Bridgend it started working and the lights also came on. I didnt realise that it was attached to one of the active travel sets until i got off at my swanline stop , as at Cardiff Platform 0 was so congested Ijust got on the first set of doors I came to (150280 on the back). Still nice extra capacity for Pembroke Dock/Tenby having 4 carriages on a sunny Saturday. This would have formed the 17xx from Tenby to Swansea/Cardiff so very welcome I imagine.

Normally id be fuming if a 150 replaced a 197 but it was quite nice to ride a 150 today now they are on their way out. Even if i had realised it was attached to a pair of 153s id have chosen the 150 especially with the awful seating on the active travel 153 carriage. Good use of the spare trains whilst the HOWL is closed and Cardiff Bay closed today also.