Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[OwenB]

Anecdotally, looking through the @GNRailUK twitter feed, it looks like a bigger s**t show than it has been for the previous two weeks. So much for (secret) emergency timetables alleviating the issues.

 

[GordonT]

I've several times read articles which stress the critical need for trains to "present" on time at the "core". Then back in the real world you have things like this morning's 0630 Rainham to Luton reporting 56L departing Dartford due to an "operating incident" and you think good luck with that one.

 

[Hadders]

The 0720 from Stevenage was 8-Cars. Unable to board.

You’d think they’d try and lengthen as much as possible to 12 given only 4 trains from Stevenage between 0700 and 0800 when there used to be 8.

 

[physics34]

I don't understand how you can remove a bunch of services and still have last minute cancellations. The 6.07 HAT-KGX was cancelled with maybe 5 minutes notice.

Its called "incompetence"

 

[Failed Unit]

The 0720 from Stevenage was 8-Cars. Unable to board.

You’d think they’d try and lengthen as much as possible to 12 given only 4 trains from Stevenage between 0700 and 0800 when there used to be 8.

I must admit I am surprised how many 8 Car trains are still running around in the peak.

I can understand why the Baldock - Kings cross ones are only 8. Platform lengths of course. But in my view all Peterborough- London Kings Cross and Cambridge- Kings Cross (fast) should be 12. Maybe the later are. But seems to be too many 8 Car 365s / 387s running round just to be the Baldock trains. Get some the 365s working again if short on stock.

 

[FOH]

Even when there has been a real emergency timetable I have submitted Delay Repay claims on the basis of the timetable that was published when I bought my ticket.

They have always been paid.

Yep, during the Southern debacle the emergency timetable lasted a few months with many trains deleted out and the timetable changing each week. Delay Repay was continually honoured during this and amounted to a 10% saving on my season ticket renewal.

 

[zoneking]

The journey planner even 2-3 hours before is no good. On Friday, at 17.00, I planned a journey between Caterham and Gomshall. The journey planner suggested I take the 20.50 from Caterham and the 21.14 Thameslink service from Purley to Gatwick for Redhill. Of course, the Thameslink service was cancelled, as were all Thameslink services from Purley. Luckily, I got the 21.04 Southern service to Reigate. Even though the Caterham and Reigate trains are on adjacent platforms (4 and 5), the journey planner does not like using connections that are less than 3 minutes.

 

[talldave]

I got on a Thameslink train at Rochester yesterday evening, thought I was hallucinating! All sense of reality was lost when it stopped at Higham - and a brave passenger got on!

It was only going as far as Dartford though !

 

[Chris999999]

I got on a Thameslink train at Rochester yesterday evening, thought I was hallucinating! All sense of reality was lost when it stopped at Higham - and a brave passenger got on!

!

Did he have several days growth of beard and looking undernourished?

 

[Steveo77]

wow things are really bad on Thameslink this morning - a 2 hour gap between services from Sutton to Wimbledon during the morning rush hour peak.
if this was a one off I could understand, but from what i have been reading this disruption could last until at least August ??

 

[Silver Cobra]

Seeing the difficulty that Thameslink are having even running a reduced service, it's got me quite concerned about my upcoming journey on June 18th.

I've booked to travel on the 0755 departure from Arlesey to Peterborough, to connect onto the 0853 service to Leeds, and onwards with Northern on the 1051 to Preston and 1306 to Blackpool North. I have split my ticket at Leeds, so I have an Arlesey-Leeds VTEC & Connections advance and a Leeds-Blackpool North Northern Only advance; I had to do this as the Northern leg of the journey wasn't available at the time of booking the Arlesey-Leeds portion due to the timetable changes. The 0755 service was cancelled today, and in the last few weeks has been cancelled several times. As the 0655 and 0725 departures are planned cancellations as part of the reduced timetable, this means that there is no realistic option for pre-empting any potential cancellation of the 0755, unless I got to Arlesey at 0600 to aim for the 0603 or 0625 (bus services from Shefford to Arlesey don't start until 0630, so I would have to leave home at 0500 to walk to the station).

Currently I'm considering the idea of picking up a cheap advance for the 0728 VTEC departure from Stevenage to Peterborough (currently £6.80) and getting a lift to Stevenage to catch that service, in order to ensure I do get to Peterborough in time for my booked connection. Even if I'm allowed to travel on later TL and VTEC services to get to Leeds in the advent that the 0755 from Arlesey is cancelled, my concern is that Northern could refuse to accept the tickets as a through journey and being required to pay £23.40 to continue to Blackpool. I also don't to lose a significant portion of my time in Blackpool.

wow things are really bad on Thameslink this morning - a 2 hour gap between services from Sutton to Wimbledon during the morning rush hour peak.
if this was a one off I could understand, but from what i have been reading this disruption could last until at least August ??

The Peterborough route had this too southbound. No TL departures from Peterborough between 0724 and 0926, so stations such as Sandy and Arlesey have had no services for two hours after 0804.

 

[DaveN]

Meanwhile on the MML north of Luton this morning, the secret timetable cancels the last 2 faster trains from Flitwick so the last faster one is at 07:13. There's a slower one removed too (06:29). Two slower ones cancelled this morning (06:43,08:29) and the 07:59 didn't stop at Flitwick (or anywhere else north of Luton Airport) as it left Bedford 32 minutes late.

 

[ijmad]

It seems like they are managing to run some Cambridge, Peterborough, Horsham and Rainham services this morning. Not many, but some...

Although barely managing 12tph through the core in the peak, which is worse than it was before the big timetable change.

 

[holmestm]

0624 Royston to KGX today not showing on departure boards, nor in my iPhone app (Live Trains) but was shown in RTT. It duly arrived on schedule and ran to time with about 25% load. How can RTT do this when they use the same National Rail APIs? There are stories of other phantom services turning up elsewhere on the line with people scrambling off replacement rail buses to board trains (possibly jumping closed barriers to do so). I saw a tongue in cheek post weeks ago suggesting that drivers would turn up and see what trains were available before deciding what services to run - I'm starting to think this is what's happening.

 

[Taunton]

Even if I'm allowed to travel on later TL and VTEC services to get to Leeds in the event that the 0755 from Arlesey is cancelled, my concern is that Northern could refuse to accept the tickets as a through journey and being required to pay £23.40 to continue to Blackpool.

It is clearly a nonsense that with the current disruption on part of a supposedly nationwide public network that there should be any question over disrupted travellers able to take the next available train for a journey without difficulty. The RDG, or failing any leadership from them the DfT, should issue such an instruction to all operators, and not rely on individuals to do it or not, and publicise it or not. The RDG have already accepted separately that split tickets are a quite acceptable way to make an overall journey.

In passing, for the journey in question, Northern appear to be as disorganised as Thameslink at the moment, for similar but not identical reasons.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yep, during the Southern debacle the emergency timetable lasted a few months with many trains deleted out and the timetable changing each week. Delay Repay was continually honoured during this and amounted to a 10% saving on my season ticket renewal.

If my long-term experiences with GTR were anything to go by, I'd guess that a 10% cost saving was represented by a 50% or greater stress and personal disruption increase! The life turmoil caused by major and long-term travel problems is not even remotely compensated for by 'Delay Repay', etc.

The aim should be for 'right first time' rather than hiding behind compensation culture. However, the railways have, I fear, got to the point now where almost all the value of the 'old school' railways regime (and there were failings there too, of course) has been lost and will never return, leaving 'business' people to grapple with issues that require vast collective experience and specific industry knowledge to address.

 

[Silver Cobra]

The situation at Arlesey is looking very bad for today, at least in terms of southbound services. Since the 0804 departure, only two services have called here southbound: the 1034 to Horsham and the 1134 to King's Cross (running in place of the 1134 Horsham service). There are no further scheduled services until 1334, so that means only two services calling southbound over a five and a half hour period, and only one of those through the core.

 

[paul332]

It's bad on the historic Bedpan route. No all-stations trains shown northbound for 75 minutes between around 09:00 and 10:15. Can't trust those that are shown not to skip-stop. Therefore the only reliable way to go north (e.g. Luton Airport) is to get a coach (probably all rammed), taxi (waste of £75) or go to St Pancras and hope for the best, wasting another hour.

Prior to May 20 we had a reliable 15-minute service with reliable connections at St Albans. What an utter omnishambles! UK rail is in tatters.

 

[Class465fan]

What an complete nightmare. It now takes forever just to get to gravesend thanks to this c*rappy timetable.

 

[NorthKent1989]

What an complete nightmare. It now takes forever just to get to gravesend thanks to this c*rappy timetable.

Abbey Wood should be grateful it's got Thameslink AND Crossrail, so I can't feel too sorry for Abbey Wood nor Woolwich for that matter

 

[Stampy]

Looks like people on the 0954 from Peterborough to Horsham had fun this morning....

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/W64303/2018-06-04

Depart PBO on time
Depart Hitchin 4 mins late
Pass Alexandra Palace 5 mins late
Depart Finsbury Park 27 mins late
TERMINATED at London Blackfriars 32 minutes late...

 

[talldave]

Abbey Wood should be grateful it's got Thameslink AND Crossrail, so I can't feel too sorry for Abbey Wood nor Woolwich for that matter

And what does your opinion on that have to do with Gravesend, exactly?

 

[JonathanH]

It's bad on the historic Bedpan route. No all-stations trains shown northbound for 75 minutes between around 09:00 and 10:15. Can't trust those that are shown not to skip-stop. Therefore the only reliable way to go north (e.g. Luton Airport) is to get a coach (probably all rammed), taxi (waste of £75) or go to St Pancras and hope for the best, wasting another hour.

Prior to May 20 we had a reliable 15-minute service with reliable connections at St Albans. What an utter omnishambles! UK rail is in tatters.

This is the bit that is the least easy to understand - I get that some drivers don't know London Bridge but what has changed with regard to the rest of the historic route - even more so Luton / St Albans to Sutton or Blackfriars to Sevenoaks? Is there some messroom somewhere with loads of spare drivers not doing anything simply because some part of the unit diagram operates on one of the new bits of route and so the whole working for the day is cancelled?

 

[bionic]

All existing Thameslink drivers prior to the new timetable signed Bedford to Brighton and the Sutton loop. The majority of Thameslink drivers (Perhaps not Brighton and Three Bridges drivers) also signed to Sevenoaks and Orpington (as far as I know). I don't think driver route knowledge is an issue on these services.

 

[Stampy]

I went with my Dad to London, just over a week ago (we went to Twickenham) and he wanted to "sample" the core.

We'd caught the train from Milton Keynes, as I was at a football game that evening in Northampton

Plan was to get to Euston, and then tube back to Finsbury Park so we could do "the core" from there.

Upon arrival, I checked the RTT (Real Train Times) app to see that NOTHING was running through the core from the P'boro / Cambridge side - so we WALKED to Baker Street, and caught the tube to West Hampstead and then walked to the Thameslink station..

Nothing was moving on the Thameslink side for nearly 45 minutes, the 1st train we caught was a train to Sutton, and 30 minutes after that was a train to Brighton.

 

[kw12]

All existing Thameslink drivers prior to the new timetable signed Bedford to Brighton and the Sutton loop. The majority of Thameslink drivers (Perhaps not Brighton and Three Bridges drivers) also signed to Sevenoaks and Orpington (as far as I know). I don't think driver route knowledge is an issue on these services.

Did this include the route via London Bridge in addition to the route via Elephant & Castle? Or because of the long period of trains being diverted via Elephant & Castle were there a significant number of drivers who had not been trained in the revised route via London Bridge?

 

[DVD]

Rail magazine's Industry Insider columnist is reporting that just 9 out of 90 Peterborough depot drivers have the route knowledge for the run to Horsham and that Horsham has only two out of a complement of 40 drivers. Notwithstanding the logistical difficulties in acquiring route knowledge to sign the new diagrams, some of which are explained in the article, this seems rather shocking.

 

[hwl]

This is the bit that is the least easy to understand - I get that some drivers don't know London Bridge but what has changed with regard to the rest of the historic route - even more so Luton / St Albans to Sutton or Blackfriars to Sevenoaks? Is there some messroom somewhere with loads of spare drivers not doing anything simply because some part of the unit diagram operates on one of the new bits of route and so the whole working for the day is cancelled?

When the decision was take to modify the Thameslink routes because of Windmill Bridge Jn capacity issues a big change also occured that wasn't picked up by many people. Prior to the change none of the existing routes were changed in a major way (minor = Bedford - Gatwick instead of Bedford Three Bridges) as all the ECML - TL routes were paired with new to TL services to the South (ex Southern) too (e.g. Cambridge - Tattenham Corner or Welwyn GC - Caterham (peak only) but with those changes they decided to chop some existing TL routes in 2. E.g. Sevenoaks - Bedford is no more with the Sevenoaks portion going to Welwyn GC from next May.

 

[ijmad]

Did this include the route via London Bridge in addition to the route via Elephant & Castle? Or because of the long period of trains being diverted via Elephant & Castle were there a significant number of drivers who had not been trained in the revised route via London Bridge?

Large numbers of trains were taking the London Bridge route and either non-stopping or making unadvertised stops at LBG during the lead up to the timetable launch. If it is the case that all their drivers weren't trained on the new route, there must have been some truly terrible planning involved.

 

[malc-c]

The 0720 from Stevenage was 8-Cars. Unable to board.

You’d think they’d try and lengthen as much as possible to 12 given only 4 trains from Stevenage between 0700 and 0800 when there used to be 8.

My daughter stated a new job in Welwyn Garden today. At the interview she was asked how she would get to work, to which she replied by train from Stevenage to WGC, having done her research and seen there was a train at 8:10, taking 12 minutes to get to WGC, leaving her half an hour to walk to the office. We checked yesterday to see the service was cancelled. The options were to get the earlier train, which I believe would have been the 7:10, which looking at RTT was cancelled as well.... the only train I found running prior to that was the 6:39, which would have got to WGC at 7am - so she would have over 90 minutes to wait until the office opened. If she caught the 8:40 she would have been almost 45 minutes late on her first day as whilst this ran, it was running 12 minutes late. - She ended up getting the bus, which whilst it took her 45 minutes to journey from Stevenage to WGC, unlike the trains, was running.

It's not as if they had suddenly planned this new time table... the announcements stated that this was the biggest public consultation.. blah...blah..blah. But it's not clear what is the issue. If you plan to add a 100 additional trains to the timetable then you need to make sure you have 100 physical trains and 100 drivers qualified to drive them in place before implementing the change...

My daughter is going to request a refund of the season ticket she purchased as it's of no use to her now she will be bussing to WGC each day... but for those of you who don't have that option, I can understand your frustrations.