Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[KC1]

Still trying to stick it on Network Rail, Horton, aren't you. The key problem is you don't have the drivers in place to operate the service because you saved money on recruitment of extra drivers and training for the new routes. That's wholly your responsibility, and known about for years. I know you think you can obfusciate Grayling and (possibly) the BBC by pseudo-technical wiffle-waffle, but if you really think it wasn't anything to do with you then it won't get fixed, and this will just roll on and on.

You’re addressing this to Charles Horton but I’m not sure he'll Be reading this to be honest.

 

[Antman]

Skipping stops at this time of day is just smacks of playing with toy train sets.

How else does the train get back on time? Questions might be asked why it was late but I don't see the relevance of toy train sets?

 

[Kanrakuq]

How else does the train get back on time? Questions might be asked why it was late but I don't see the relevance of toy train sets?

This particular train, the 0524, left exactly 60 minutes late, so taking (by accident) the place of the 0624 which had been cancelled in advance anyway. Instead of running it as the 0624 and stopping as scheduled, they have just skipped basically everywhere (rendering the whole journey next to useless anyway unless you want to go from St Pancras to London Bridge), and nearing the end of its journey, having traveled almost empty according to people on the train writing on Twitter, it's still 26 minutes late. Pure Kafka.

 

[hwl]

You’re addressing this to Charles Horton but I’m not sure he'll Be reading this to be honest.

To be honest all of GTR's internal comms which are being leaked all over the place seem to blame NR for this and that but surprising no mention of the lack of trained drivers

 

[tsd123]

Hello! First post here, but i've read this thread since the timetable was introduced.

I commute from Upper Warlingham [UWL] to St Pancras [STP] - so, chaos aside, I've actually welcomed having Thameslink make this a direct route with 0 changes, as opposed to getting on the Victoria/Northern line.

However, as everyone else has mentioned the cancellations are getting a bit silly.

This morning there was a new one though. The 06:39 from UWL toward Bedford was showing as planned cancelled. But suddenly, it appeared on departure boards, running approx 14 mins late. I boarded the mostly empty train, which then proceeded to no longer call at LBG and instead was route via E&C.

Interestingly enough, on Recent Train Times, the train is still showing as planned cancelled: http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Service?ServiceId=51158909

 

[NorthKent1989]

No Thameslink trains from Medway will be running it seems by the looks of things, so Higham is once again without a rail service! And connections will be inevitably missed if you did need the DLR at Woolwich (saying if) and busy stations like Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal and Abbey Wood will be down by 2tph unless Thameslink are running services further down the line?

 

[the Rat]

What happens when they get all/enough the drivers trained up and it works?

Pigs will be flying, hell will be freezing over and the calendar will be showing 12th of Never.

 

[Robert Symonds]

No Thameslink trains from Medway will be running it seems by the looks of things, so Higham is once again without a rail service! And connections will be inevitably missed if you did need the DLR at Woolwich (saying if) and busy stations like Greenwich, Woolwich Arsenal and Abbey Wood will be down by 2tph unless Thameslink are running services further down the line?

I don't know how this situation can be allowed to carry on.Just stop the Hs1 at Higham.Its a no brainer.I really can't understand why this is not being done.No instead they get a bus service to Strood to pick up the very same highspeed train that passes through Higham.Also how is Strood bearing up with this.Outside of peak it now only has Hs1.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I don't know how this situation can be allowed to carry on.Just stop the Hs1 at Higham.Its a no brainer.I really can't understand why this is not being done.No instead they get a bus service to Strood to pick up the very same highspeed train that passes through Higham.Also how is Strood bearing up with this.Outside of peak it now only has Hs1.

It’s absolutely scandalous that HS1 isn’t calling at Higham, you can’t mess around with people’s lives like this! Good question about Strood, I can imagine HS1 being rather packed though, Some trains to Victoria from Rochester seem to be delayed I don’t know why that is though, luckily I’m off work today.

 

[Robert Symonds]

It’s absolutely scandalous that HS1 isn’t calling at Higham, you can’t mess around with people’s lives like this! Good question about Strood, I can imagine HS1 being rather packed though, Some trains to Victoria from Rochester seem to be delayed I don’t know why that is though, luckily I’m off work today.

I've had a lucky escape as I now work locally.Until last month I commuted to Strood.Looks like I got out just in time.

 

[Robert Symonds]

It’s absolutely scandalous that HS1 isn’t calling at Higham, you can’t mess around with people’s lives like this! Good question about Strood, I can imagine HS1 being rather packed though, Some trains to Victoria from Rochester seem to be delayed I don’t know why that is though, luckily I’m off work today.

Southeastern must be pleased though as it's forcing people on to the more expensive highspeed.Probably the plan all along.Just stop at Higham!

 

[NorthKent1989]

Southeastern must be pleased though as it's forcing people on to the more expensive highspeed.Probably the plan all along.Just stop at Higham!

Of course, that’s why I’m suprised that they haven’t been calling at Higham, surely they can’t miss an opportunity to make an extra few quid!

 

[radamfi]

Southeastern must be pleased though as it's forcing people on to the more expensive highspeed.Probably the plan all along.Just stop at Higham!

I guess that explains why ticket acceptance on High Speed is only permitted between Gravesend and Rainham. So once you get to Strood you are still meant to change again onto other South Eastern trains at Gravesend. Not many people will put up with this hassle.

 

[kw12]

To be honest all of GTR's internal comms which are being leaked all over the place seem to blame NR for this and that but surprising no mention of the lack of trained drivers

As I understand it, the only training that most of the "untrained" drivers have yet to receive is the training on the new routes and in particular the 'Canal Tunnel' route linking Finsbury Park and St. Pancras. From GTR's perspective, NR did not make the Canal Tunnel route available in adequate time for all drivers to be trained on this route before the timetable was introduced. Hence the blame on NR.

 

[JonathanH]

As I understand it, the only training that most of the "untrained" drivers have yet to receive is the training on the new routes and in particular the 'Canal Tunnel' route linking Finsbury Park and St. Pancras. From GTR's perspective, NR did not make the Canal Tunnel route available in adequate time for all drivers to be trained on this route before the timetable was introduced. Hence the blame on NR.

So, the first passenger services ran on the Canal Tunnel route on 26 February 2018. Was that later than expected? Was there originally intended to be a greater number of preview services? Would that have avoided the problems now?

 

[jon0844]

Skipping stops at this time of day is just smacks of playing with toy train sets.

Skip stopping is apparently going to be stopped. Not sure how that's going impact the line, but this is one thing many people have demanded and has now been agreed.

 

[sefton]

How else does the train get back on time? Questions might be asked why it was late but I don't see the relevance of toy train sets?

Getting the train back on time but leaving hundreds of customers stranded is toy train set mentality.

The train in question was the 5.24 from Peterborough which saved 10 minutes on a two and a half hour journey by abandoning hundreds of customers at six stations into London.

10 minutes, whopee. The train is already an hour late and has arrived in Brighton long after the morning commuter rush has finished.

Train companies need to learn who their customers are, and moving around fresh air to catch up on delays they have created does not do it.

 

[radamfi]

Skip stopping is apparently going to be stopped. Not sure how that's going impact the line, but this is one thing many people have demanded and has now been agreed.

Maybe that will lead to more trains being terminated early and turned around?

 

[infobleep]

What does that mean?

I've now updated it. There is a problem with my Android phone and this site.

Sometimes when I type in words it prints jibberish. If I hit the corrected word above it doesn't change it. Now I try to notice this and correct them but it don't always notice.

 

[NorthKent1989]

How long is this allowed to go one for I wonder? It’s been two week nearly after all, It seems unreal that a project as large as Thameslink would have so few trained up drivers and how haphazardly the routes and services were planned out, considering how much time they had.

A friend of mine who used to work in the railways came up with a theory that I disagreed with but wanted to run it on this forum, it’s an attempt to nationalise Thameslink, you can see why I disagreed because I believe it’s just simply Thameslink has probably taken on more than it can handle and the driver issue is a massive oversight and the timetable which may not work as well.

 

[bramling]

Maybe that will lead to more trains being terminated early and turned around?

There’s only so much of that which can be done if drivers are based at the ends.

Skip stopping has its place, but it’s been happening far too much.

The best way to get back on time is not to be late in the first place, but failing that reform trains at the ends using crew reliefs. Would probably need spare trains though. Alternatively have turnarounds which are long enough to absorb delays - but this needs to apply to the driver duties and not just the trains.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Deleted

 

[T J]

Most posters probably missed Andy Burnham, Mayor of Manchester, on BBC Breakfast this morning. He claimed that the Government is ignoring the disruption to services caused by the new timetable as only passengers in the north are suffering problems and that if there were problems in the south, the Government would have taken action. I have emailed him to advise him that although some parts of the south are not suffering problems, this is certainly not the case in areas served by Govia Thameslink. He also stated that Manchester commuters are paying hundreds of pounds and not getting the service they paid for, I pointed out to him that they should thinks themselves lucky, London commuters are paying thousands of pounds and not getting a service.

 

[the Rat]

The politics of this shambles is probably best served in another thread but, for what it's worth, I'd agree that this fiasco will only increase the clamour to nationalise which I understand has widespread support amongst both Labour and Tory voters. However only one party is committed to delivering such an outcome, and whether voters will prioritise the railways over all other matters when they cast their vote remains to be seen.

 

[bramling]

The politics of this shambles is probably best served in another thread but, for what it's worth, I'd agree that this fiasco will only increase the clamour to nationalise which I understand has widespread support amongst both Labour and Tory voters. However only one party is committed to delivering such an outcome, and whether voters will prioritise the railways over all other matters when they cast their vote remains to be seen.

You may well be right that it might lead to pressure to renationalise. However, this might be counterproductive, as DFT are just as much involved in this railsham as GTR. They chose GTR, and Thameslink Programme is their project.

 

[JonathanH]

The politics of this shambles is probably best served in another thread but, for what it's worth, I'd agree that this fiasco will only increase the clamour to nationalise which I understand has widespread support amongst both Labour and Tory voters. However only one party is committed to delivering such an outcome, and whether voters will prioritise the railways over all other matters when they cast their vote remains to be seen.

To all intents and purposes GTR is simply an agency of a nationalised railway. The DfT controls the spending. What differences in operating model would exist in the parallel world you foresee from 'nationalisation'?

 

[the Rat]

You may well be right that it might lead to pressure to renationalise. However, this might be counterproductive, as DFT are just as much involved in this railsham as GTR. They chose GTR, and Thameslink Programme is their project.

Absolutely, the DfT are equally to blame for this mess, but a change of attitude towards the railways ie it's a service and should be funded as such, would surely bring about an improvement. Lose some of the accountants at the DfT and bring in railway men and women.

 

[AM9]

... He also stated that Manchester commuters are paying hundreds of pounds and not getting the service they paid for, I pointed out to him that they should thinks themselves lucky, London commuters are paying thousands of pounds and not getting a service.

If he was to reply to you he might point out that season tickets are broadly calculated on similar rates per mile with adjustments for type of service (e.g. frequency/journey time?). So there is the probability that the package that commuters in the south-east buy is more expensive than the norm in the north because of much greater distances, more frequent/faster trains and in some cases faster options (as with VTEC vs GTR or EM vs GTR). How satisfied would London commuters be if the nornal service used class 150s or 156s (two-car of course)?

 

[jon0844]

My local MP (Grant Shapps) knows full well that it's not a franchise, but he's still appearing on TV saying GTR should be stripped of the franchise. He knows it's the right thing to say, but ultimately he also knows GTR isn't likely going anywhere.

 

[the Rat]

To all intents and purposes GTR is simply an agency of a nationalised railway. The DfT controls the spending. What differences in operating model would exist in the parallel world you foresee from 'nationalisation'?

Technically, yes, they are an agency. But a Dft run by railway folk would surely have seen the folly in introducing a timetable without having enough drivers, for example.