Trains are stopping all over the place to pick up and drop off drivers. If a driver can't get a train then it is impacting another train, and another.. It's madness. I think more are getting round in taxis now, but that poses problems in itself - like where IS the taxi. Is it in traffic? can you get through to the driver? Can the driver get through to control?
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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018
- Thread starter blakey1152
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Trains are stopping all over the place to pick up and drop off drivers. If a driver can't get a train then it is impacting another train, and another.. It's madness. I think more are getting round in taxis now, but that poses problems in itself - like where IS the taxi. Is it in traffic? can you get through to the driver? Can the driver get through to control?
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This is disgraceful.
It’s very misleading but it’s the first time I’ve been aware of a fast Epsom train from London Bridge regardless which is handy I guessyou learn something new everyday.
Didn’t West Croydon used to have fast trains years ago in the 90s?
It still does, just fewer than before. Until the timetable change all of the peak Epsom/Guildford/Dorking to London Bridge's were stoppers to Norwood Junction then fast, with a half hourly slow Selhurst depot starter from Norwood Junction doing all stations via Sydenham to London Bridge, which itself was only introduced as an unplanned reaction to reducing services after LO started.
1726, 1808, 1829 departures from London Bridge suggest otherwise.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Has anyone noticed that GTRs “we must skip stop if something is late” policy doesn’t save much time.
I have seen a few such as the 0602 wgc - London leave 28 Mins late and arrive in London kx 28 Mins late.
This morning they decided to run the 0657 Cambridge - London non stop from Hitchin - Finsbury Park. It was 33 late at Hitchin. Arrived 28 late at Finsbury Park. Was it worth it for 5 minutes saving considering many stations it skipped only get an hourly service?
What are GTR trying to achieve?
I have seen a few such as the 0602 wgc - London leave 28 Mins late and arrive in London kx 28 Mins late.
This morning they decided to run the 0657 Cambridge - London non stop from Hitchin - Finsbury Park. It was 33 late at Hitchin. Arrived 28 late at Finsbury Park. Was it worth it for 5 minutes saving considering many stations it skipped only get an hourly service?
What are GTR trying to achieve?
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NorthKent1989
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Were these HS1 trains or a Dartford route train?
GoatSarah
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I don't think they know.
Profit
Failed Unit
Established Member
They are making a lot of that considering the loss of revenue makes no impact on thier bottom line.....
They don't seem to care how much these decision alientate passengers and some of them chose not to travel as a result. I could understand the skip-stopping if it makes the train capable of running on time on its return, but in many instance I have seen it is just the same delay at the destination, with less stops and more passengers journeys messed up. See it a lot on the Horsham - Peterborough route where it misses all stations between Gatwick and East Croydon. They often arrive as late at East Croydon then they left Gatwick, but the poor folk of Redhill (and other places) lose another service.
Skip stopping - aka Playing with trainsets. No interest in the customers only making their toys move around.
Bishopstone
Established Member
Multiple cancellations and 90 minute gaps in service on the London Bridge - Horsham route, today.
Until May, there was an hourly fast Southern service from Horley (Brighton-Victoria), but now this substantial town is entirely at the mercy of Thameslink's dismal service, off-peak.
A self-contained shuttle between London Bridge and Horsham, every 30 minutes, should be quite easy to diagram and resource, surely?
Until May, there was an hourly fast Southern service from Horley (Brighton-Victoria), but now this substantial town is entirely at the mercy of Thameslink's dismal service, off-peak.
A self-contained shuttle between London Bridge and Horsham, every 30 minutes, should be quite easy to diagram and resource, surely?
Minstral25
Established Member
Seems Easy doesn't it. 6 sets of stock, probably 18 Drivers as 3 drivers on average in each over the day. So you find 18 drivers and you find 18 sets of stock. Don't forget all of the Horsham Thameslink depot already knew Horsham to London Bridge without a pilot or anything else as they are ex-Southern drivers.
Most of the day at least 2 and more often 3 sets missing, meaning on a half hourly service (which through Redhill was supposed to be every 15 minutes in new timetable) there have been 60 and 90 minute gaps for many stations along the Horsham branch but also for larger stations at Horley, Salfords and Earlswood.
The loss of the Gatwick to Bedford service as well seems incredible as it was a fully running service with Drivers that knew 700's and the route before the timetable change so why can't they run it now at all? Completely cancelled all weekend.
The service degradation along the Redhill route has been awful as Southern have been replaced by Thameslink on 20th May and it is getting worse when it should be getting better.
GoatSarah
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Weekday ones don't, so why should the weekend be any different?
As you haven't deleted the question ... How many HS1 trains serve London Bridge?
Stampy
Member
Certainly weren't ANY in the (nearly) 3 hours I was down PBO station last night....
Old School
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This is correct....The emergency t/t has NO TRAINS through the CORE on a Sat or Sun
Steve Harris
Member
But its not an emergency timetable, apparently. That is supposed to come into force mid July.
We are talking GTR here. They aren't that organised you know.
Thanks
Interestingly the Horsham weekend services stop earlswood and Salfords in place of Gatwick to Bedford starters?
Er, no chance.
The long term plan is currently in the timetable every weekend. During the week, they replace it with the weekend 'emergency timetable'. Clearly they should do this further in advance but at the moment that is not what is happening.
https://www.railplan2020.com/timetables has details of the base amended timetable for weekends.
My guess is that until they sort out the weekday service there will be no through GN to the core weekend services and the Bedford to Gatwick services will not run.
Oh thanks confusing haha
But its not an emergency timetable, apparently. That is supposed to come into force mid July.
We are talking GTR here. They aren't that organised you know.
No weekday emergency timetable yet but there is a weekend one.
See "Where can I download the revised weekend timetable?" on https://www.railplan2020.com/timetables
In practice there are still cancellations even with the reduced service.
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malc-c
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Ok pardon my ignorance, but what is the root of all this disruption. Before 20/5/18 things would on the face of it seem to be running Ok, at least well enough that public were not complaining in such numbers as after the change. Surely the same drivers who were roster to take a train from say cambridge to KX and back X number of times in his shift is still employed to do so ? So why are people say there isn't enough drivers ? Seeing the number of 700's being dragged behind66's the past few months, I'm guessing that there are enough sets in place, or is that there is but they are in the wrong places ?? - To me it just seems strange that it is such a major cockup and it's taking so long to resolve. Makes me wonder why they just didn't revert back to the timetable for 17/18/19 May over the course of the week after 20th until "they" sorted our a way forward.
Oh and I have it good authority that aliens do exist in Stevenage... I live next door to one
Oh and I have it good authority that aliens do exist in Stevenage... I live next door to one
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Steve Harris
Member
Call me thick, but since when has "revised timetable" = an emergency timetable. The two are completely seperate.
Ok pardon my ignorance, but what is the root of all this disruption. Before 20/5/18 things would on the face of it seem to be running Ok, at least well enough that public were not complaining in such numbers as after the change. Surely the same drivers who were roster to take a train from say cambridge to KX and back X number of times in his shift is still employed to do so ? So why are people say there isn't enough drivers ? Seeing the number of 700's being dragged behind66's the past few months, I'm guessing that there are enough sets in place, or is that there is but they are in the wrong places ?? - To me it just seems strange that it is such a major cockup and it's taking so long to resolve. Makes me wonder why they just didn't revert back to the timetable for 17/18/19 May over the course of the week after 20th until "they" sorted our a way forward.
Oh and I have it good authority that aliens do exist in Stevenage... I live next door to one
Where have you been for the last month
Just read some of the earlier posts in this thread and all is revealed. Basically GTR have bitten off more than they can chew. Services are supposed to run through the core to places like Horsham and Brighton but sufficient drivers haven't been trained to drive the new trains or through the core. Depends on who you believe as to why this is the case but the bottom line is that's what's causing the timetable to completely fall apart.
N.B. There is no emergency timetable yet, just short notice revisions and cancellations. An emergency timetable is expected to be introduced in mid-July.
Steve Harris
Member
To answer your question (and going on the information we have all seen and heard in the media), not enough drivers were trained in time on the new routes and/or traction.Ok pardon my ignorance, but what is the root of all this disruption. Before 20/5/18 things would on the face of it seem to be running Ok, at least well enough that public were not complaining in such numbers as after the change. Surely the same drivers who were roster to take a train from say cambridge to KX and back X number of times in his shift is still employed to do so ? So why are people say there isn't enough drivers ? Seeing the number of 700's being dragged behind66's the past few months, I'm guessing that there are enough sets in place, or is that there is but they are in the wrong places ?? - To me it just seems strange that it is such a major cockup and it's taking so long to resolve. Makes me wonder why they just didn't revert back to the timetable for 17/18/19 May over the course of the week after 20th until "they" sorted our a way forward.
Oh and I have it good authority that aliens do exist in Stevenage... I live next door to one
Therefore there are drivers being used as pilot drivers in the core (presumably drivers from the original thameslink route). Plus as an educated guess a fair few drivers are now learning the new routes / trains, so therefore leaving the number of drivers to run a service (which used to run with no major problems) reduced.
Plus it sounds like it now takes at least twice the number of drivers to run a service as the rosters haven't been sorted out properly yet.
Edit. Got beaten to it by Hadders.
A lot of 700s are out of place. It means 387s are running instead at times, in various configurations as they split and join to pick up and drop off units.
The downside is that the last train north has sometimes been a 4 instead of 8, but worse, a 12 car running south has resulted in the last train to London from Cambridge skipping stops at 8 car platforms (SDO not used as with 700s) and passengers put into taxis.
Then there's the issue of drivers at some depots having no 700 training, so in the morning trains parked up at WGC can't operate. When a driver that can take one arrives late (having come by taxi or their train in being cancelled), the prep time still means a delay and there's still a high risk of it being cancelled.
These are the logistical errors that I assume are being gradually dealt with and each week a new batch of trains are reinstated.
The downside is that the last train north has sometimes been a 4 instead of 8, but worse, a 12 car running south has resulted in the last train to London from Cambridge skipping stops at 8 car platforms (SDO not used as with 700s) and passengers put into taxis.
Then there's the issue of drivers at some depots having no 700 training, so in the morning trains parked up at WGC can't operate. When a driver that can take one arrives late (having come by taxi or their train in being cancelled), the prep time still means a delay and there's still a high risk of it being cancelled.
These are the logistical errors that I assume are being gradually dealt with and each week a new batch of trains are reinstated.
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