The 110 Wakefield. Why so protected ?

yorksrob

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As a resident of Wakefield, I'm often left wondering why the residents along the 110 route seem to be gifted bus services that the rest of us peasants in Wakefield can only dream of. We can be waiting ages yet loads of 110's seem to sail by.

The 110 is more frequent and runs longer than the other buses in Wakefield.

Perhaps the residents along the 110 route have golden bottoms ?
 
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61653 HTAFC

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As a resident of Wakefield, I'm often left wondering why the residents along the 110 route seem to be gifted bus services that the rest of us peasants in Wakefield can only dream of. We can be waiting ages yet loads of 110's seem to sail by.

The 110 is more frequent and runs longer than the other buses in Wakefield.

Perhaps the residents along the 110 route have golden bottoms ?
Arriva Wakefield have long considered the 110 to be their "flagship" route, but presumably more for the Leeds to Wakefield leg rather than the Wakefield to Hall Green/Kettlethorpe leg.

I must admit I'm surprised that the whole through route has survived as long as it has, rather than being split in Wakefield with all the investment going to the Leeds half. Loiners probably see the shiny 110s and think "where the eff is Kettlethorpe?"
 

yorksrob

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Arriva Wakefield have long considered the 110 to be their "flagship" route, but presumably more for the Leeds to Wakefield leg rather than the Wakefield to Hall Green/Kettlethorpe leg.

I must admit I'm surprised that the whole through route has survived as long as it has, rather than being split in Wakefield with all the investment going to the Leeds half. Loiners probably see the shiny 110s and think "where the eff is Kettlethorpe?"
Everyone else had to go swivel. It's about time Arriva had to dance for their supper.
 

Starmill

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Everyone else had to go swivel. It's about time Arriva had to dance for their supper.
Presumably that's exactly what they're doing. It appears to be a commercially-funded operation.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Everyone else had to go swivel. It's about time Arriva had to dance for their supper.
I agree, they've basically had a near-monopoly in Wakefield (and North Kirklees) for far too long. First have tried to muscle in a few times, but to no avail... but then if First in Huddersfield and Halifax are anything to go by, that wouldn't be an improvement.

Probably doesn't help that Arriva also run the bus station in Wakefield under agreement with Metro, unlike every other bus station in West Yorkshire which is run directly by Metro*.

(*=the exception being Dewsbury Travel Centre which was also Arriva operated, until they closed it a few years ago.)

On the bright side, perhaps the (very limited, initially) arrival of Transdev will keep Arriva on their toes...
 

carlberry

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As a resident of Wakefield, I'm often left wondering why the residents along the 110 route seem to be gifted bus services that the rest of us peasants in Wakefield can only dream of. We can be waiting ages yet loads of 110's seem to sail by.

The 110 is more frequent and runs longer than the other buses in Wakefield.

Perhaps the residents along the 110 route have golden bottoms ?
I assume it's because the residents use it more, Arriva are not know for running services for altruistic purposes.
 

Swimbar

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Presumably that's exactly what they're doing. It appears to be a commercially-funded operation.
Arriva are not unusual in this area. Transdev seem to think that the 36 is far more important than any other route they operate!
 

Ken H

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I agree, they've basically had a near-monopoly in Wakefield (and North Kirklees) for far too long. First have tried to muscle in a few times, but to no avail... but then if First in Huddersfield and Halifax are anything to go by, that wouldn't be an improvement.

Probably doesn't help that Arriva also run the bus station in Wakefield under agreement with Metro, unlike every other bus station in West Yorkshire which is run directly by Metro*.

(*=the exception being Dewsbury Travel Centre which was also Arriva operated, until they closed it a few years ago.)

On the bright side, perhaps the (very limited, initially) arrival of Transdev will keep Arriva on their toes...
Isn't keighley bus stn run by transdev?

The 110 used to be the 10. I remember them running from the little bus stn on the corner of York St and Cross York St in the 60's. Where the Co-op is now. Unlike most other West Riding services the buses were red. When West Riding started it was a tramway between Wakefield and Leeds. Then they started buses under a subsidiary company. When the trams were abandoned, the tram company substituted buses. So the tramway company buses were a different colour. Think they had their own staff too.
The buses used to terminate at Corn Exchange but stopped that in the 50''s (because of congestion) when they moved to the new bus stn.
Later the 10 moved to the main bus stn, became 110* and were amalgamated in the main WR fleet, probably about the time that National Bus Company bought West Riding.

The York St bus stn was built on the site of St James''s church. The Sunday school is next door in Cross York St.

There was another service from York St but I don't know which. Might have been 18.

I have a 1948 West Riding timetable, scans of which will be on Timetable World in next release, which should be soon.

* Under the 1970''s Metro renumbering.
 
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Robertj21a

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As a resident of Wakefield, I'm often left wondering why the residents along the 110 route seem to be gifted bus services that the rest of us peasants in Wakefield can only dream of. We can be waiting ages yet loads of 110's seem to sail by.

The 110 is more frequent and runs longer than the other buses in Wakefield.

Perhaps the residents along the 110 route have golden bottoms ?
I always assumed that, as a commercial operation, it was a key route that could sustain a frequent service, over a long day.
Isn't that what operators strive to achieve?
 

aswilliamsuk

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Plainly and simply, "the track" as the 110 has long been known by drivers (IIRC) is one of the busiest - and presumably most profitable - routes in West Yorkshire and has long since been, and for many, many years has been able to justify regular new vehicles that ensure cascading of nearly-new vehicles to other routes.

It benefits from a direct, relatively fast route between Wakefield and Leeds (even during the rush hour it is timetabled to take just 40 minutes between the two cities), and being so frequent it will always encourage more use - not to mention the long-standing poor perception of local railway services in West Yorkshire (something that the 36 has, of course, benefitted from enormously, too).

The other thing to consider, though - Leeds is the economic engine of the entire region, and with the decline of industry in the towns and cities that ring Leeds, many of the other places locally have basically become dormitory towns for Leeds. Huddersfield is still able to command six or seven trains per hour to Leeds - the longer distance and slower services, while the trains are fast and direct, meaning that the buses don't quite benefit as much (but even the 202/203 remain a combined x15min frequency), while Bradford, Wakefield, Harrogate, Keighley, Shipley, Castleford/Normanton/Pontefract and Wetherby all have frequent and fast services into Leeds that are very well used and - Arriva aside right now, perhaps - have had good investment in the vehicles to up the quality that commuters demand.
 

Andyh82

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Presumably the 110 gets high passenger numbers, I doubt they run it every 10 minutes for fun

In Wakefield the 126/127, 148/149 & 189 also ran every 10 minutes to adjacent towns with modern route branded buses*

* Obviously all this is pre Covid, pre Driver Shortages, pre the current issue with Arriva’s parent company stopping investment
 

Bayum

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Arriva are not unusual in this area. Transdev seem to think that the 36 is far more important than any other route they operate!
An operator having a flagship route/bus number? Hark at them.
 

Ken H

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Arriva are not unusual in this area. Transdev seem to think that the 36 is far more important than any other route they operate!
Both the 36 and the 110 are very old routes. That they have survived this long suggests there is a good demand, and operators will see a good profit from offering a good service.
 

61653 HTAFC

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It benefits from a direct, relatively fast route between Wakefield and Leeds (even during the rush hour it is timetabled to take just 40 minutes between the two cities), and being so frequent it will always encourage more use - not to mention the long-standing poor perception of local railway services in West Yorkshire (something that the 36 has, of course, benefitted from enormously, too).
In the case of the 110 I'm not sure the "poor perception of local rail services" is really a major factor, given that Wakefield and Leeds had for many years a minimum of 34 carriages per hour connecting them, albeit split between the two Wakefield stations.
 

quattromatt

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In the case of the 110 I'm not sure the "poor perception of local rail services" is really a major factor, given that Wakefield and Leeds had for many years a minimum of 34 carriages per hour connecting them, albeit split between the two Wakefield stations.
The 36 was so flagship for WYRCC in the seventies they put brand new leyland nationals on it!
 

Andyh82

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In the case of the 110 I'm not sure the "poor perception of local rail services" is really a major factor, given that Wakefield and Leeds had for many years a minimum of 34 carriages per hour connecting them, albeit split between the two Wakefield stations.
No, but the only intermediate station between Wakefield and Leeds is Outwood, which looking on Google Maps looks pretty poorly located. They had two trains per hour, and one of which would have been a pacer until recently, and probably pretty full by that point having been all shacks from Sheffield
 

Starmill

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Arriva are not unusual in this area. Transdev seem to think that the 36 is far more important than any other route they operate!
That may have a strategic rationale though. For example, maybe they keep frequency very slightly higher than really needed, thus keeping that extra handful of bus and drivers diagrmmed on that route perhaps at the expense of others, because their yield is higher on the X43/36/110 etc. They could cut the cost by dropping the frequency and lose very little revenue, but it's worth the extra spend to them to keep that customer satisfaction high, abd therefore to keep people buying tickets and to keep people loyal.

On other routes where yield is lower e.g. where there's a much higher proportion of people on ENCTS rather than paying fares, or where they are unable to raise prices much because demand is too weak, the situation is quite different.

It's also worth noting that running at a slightly higher frequency than necessary for capacity reasons will raise the barrier to entry for any potential competitors, putting them off before they even try it.

Bus regulation can solve some of these issues. There are a handful of routes in various cities where frequency could actually be cut and the resources reallocated to more socially needy areas. But of course, a good bus franchising framework is about much more than that.

In the case of the 110 I'm not sure the "poor perception of local rail services" is really a major factor, given that Wakefield and Leeds had for many years a minimum of 34 carriages per hour connecting them, albeit split between the two Wakefield stations.
I think it's also an issue that if you're working in Leeds city and living in any part of Wakefield district that's not within a few minutes' walk of one of the stations, i.e. the majority of it, bus access to Wakefield Westgate for a train to Leeds isn't very good. It actually got worse when the new station opened, as much as the new building is far nicer than the previous one. Wakefield bus station is nowhere near either railway station, and Wakefield Kirkgate until recently looked derelict and abandoned on the approach on foot. Therefore, if you've a choice between the 110 which you can walk to, and any local bus into Wakefield then walking over to Wakefield Westgate to connect with a train, it's not difficult to see why people choose the 110, even if you could save 10-20 minutes if you went to catch a train.
 
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Roger1973

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I don't know the patch in question at all well, but a few angles.

If the routes in question are operated commercially, then it's up to the operator to decide what is commercially viable, and surely it's a good thing if some routes can still sustain evening / Sunday services on a commercial basis. (the only cost is the direct costs per hour and mile, as the standing vehicle costs would be the same whether the bus is out until after midnight or back in its box by 7pm. Also, if you have a service that runs a longer day, it will attract more regular daytime passengers as well - shift workers, people who work unpredictable hours, or who occasionally like an evening out after work - not sure if there's been any definitive studies on this, and it will vary from one patch to another.)

If this route has local authority support and others don't, then it's a case of asking questions of the local authorities - although most are struggling for funding, and many try to have an objective system for prioritising funding for tendered services rather than just reacting to whoever makes the most fuss.

Before deregulation, there was an acceptance that there would be cross-subsidy from more profitable routes / times of day to less profitable operations. Or alternatively, depending on your outlook, residents of some areas paid higher fares and / or got worse services to prop up services for residents of other areas. This was decreed 'a bad thing' at deregulation.

At one time (and I don't know if the specific here was one) it was quite common to have interurban services where all buses ran between town A and town B, then different journeys continued to different suburbs / estates in town B (possibly with a different route pattern evenings and Sundays), meaning that the common section of route between A and B had an array of letter suffixes, or maybe even different route numbers. There is now a greater tendency for marketing people in bus companies to want simple route patterns that run all day every day (however long that operating day is.)
 

hst43102

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As did British Rail in the 1980s up to Harrogate... <D
This forum really needs a like button!

Does anyone have any idea how much income the 110 generates? From my rather limited experience and knowledge of the Wakefield bus system, the 110 seems to have the highest demand of any route in the area.
 

tbtc

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I agree with the majority of the points above - I'm surprised that the success of the 110 surprises some people (other than just envy), but maybe it would help them to have a look at the reason why the 110 is head and shoulders above other Arriva services in the area...

I was recently looking at how to get to Featherstone to see a friend (given that there's only one train per hour) and the rest of the Arriva services in Wakefield area (inc "five towns") is pretty messy - there are lots of services but quite a muddle, and it looks quite hard to get your head around them but then the problem is that there are lots of different markets that they are trying to serve, all fairly small markets, given all of the towns in the area - e.g. Featherstone to Castleford, Castleford to Knottingley, Knottingley to Pontefract, Pontefract to Featherstone.... plus Glasshoughton which is obviously a major leisure destination but is separate to all of the town centres)

Public transport is most efficient when there are significant numbers travelling in the same direction - e.g. Hall Green into Wakefield, Wakefield into Leeds - that's simple, that works well, even if there aren't many people travelling all the way from Hall Green into Leeds (those fares are a bonus), it's a way of serving both a big suburban area that lacks a nearby heavy rail station and also an "inter city" link that serves some part of suburban Leeds that First don't generally bother with

The rest of Arriva's Yorkshire is a bit like this too - all of the Kirklees towns that are much of a muchness - the combined population of Cleckheaton/ Batley/ Heckmondwicke etc adds up to quite a bit but there's not much in Town A to attract people from Town B and vice versa - they are too similar

Whereas the other two "flagship" Arriva Yorkshire services (the 202/203 from Leeds - Dewsbury - Huddersfield and the 268 from Bradford - Dewsbury - Wakefield) - both simple corridors that link smaller places to the cities - look at what works! It's easy for First in a big city like Leeds/ Bradford - the vast majority of demand is for a straightforward service into the city centre, nothing complicated - but it's a lot harder to do this in areas like the "five towns" or North Kirklees (or the Dearne Valley in South Yorkshire, a similar combination of similar sized conurbations)

Funny that the 110 is being criticised so much by the OP though, given that the long running links are being cut next month: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/changes-to-your-yorkshire-network

Leeds – Robin Hood – Lofthouse – Outwood – Wakefield

This route will be split into two services.

The Leeds to Wakefield section will continue to run as service 110 up to every 10 minutes.

The Wakefield to Hall Green section will run as new service 106 up to every 15 minutes. From Sandal into Wakefield, the service will coordinate with the 195/196 to provide a bus every 7/8 minutes. Most journeys on service 106 will serve Hall Green.

**

The 36 was so flagship for WYRCC in the seventies they put brand new leyland nationals on it!

As did British Rail in the 1980s up to Harrogate... <D

This forum really needs a like button!

I'm instinctively against a "like" button (IMHO it'd just reward simplistic posts where people play to the gallery with the "how hard can it be" level of posts), but hats off to @61653 HTAFC for that one!
 

Leeds1970

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Wakefield bus station is not operated by Arriva under agreement from metro, The bus station is owned and operated by Arriva
Keighley is owned By Metro and managed /operated by Transdev
 

61653 HTAFC

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Wakefield bus station is not operated by Arriva under agreement from metro, The bus station is owned and operated by Arriva
Keighley is owned By Metro and managed /operated by Transdev
Thanks for the correction. Whilst Wakefield bus station is a vast improvement from the old one, it does seem to have more of an issue with anti-social behaviour than any of the other large ones... though the white elephant market building next door probably doesn't help.
 

Ken H

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Service 10 timetable from 1948 just for interest.
 

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NorthernSpirit

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Everyone else had to go swivel. It's about time Arriva had to dance for their supper.
I'd imagine that their newly aquired 231/232 to Huddersfield is playing second fiddle then? Shame that they scrubbed the 278 to Halifax a few years back as that could have been improved and extended back to Wakefield again with the Dewsbury to Wakey section being limited stop.
 

John B

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The simple fact is that the 110 service is by far the most profitable route for Arriva Yorkshire and the income generated helps to maintain marginal services. There is no doubt that a serious drop in 110 revenues would have a knock on effect for other services.
I don't understand the comment that it's time Arriva had to dance for its supper. It should be noted that all Arriva Yorkshire core services 110, 202, 229,166, 254 etc are 100% commercially operated.
 

Adam0984

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The 110 is getting split temporarily to a Wakefield to Leeds every 10 mins shuttle and a 106 Wakefield to Hall Green every 15 mins. This change starts on the 25th October.
 

yorksrob

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The 189 must be a close contender in terms of revenues. It's very frequent throughout the day anyway.
 

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